How can we make this the best MMO on the market?

ArchivedUser

Hello all,

I have been playing MMOs for about the last 8 years. Time after time I feel as though i have been met with stale games and game mechanics from companies who are too scared to attempt to innovate. They constantly operate behind semi-closed doors with what ultimately seems like a cash grab as their end all be all. It is beyond frustrating. In my opinion, The developers behind AoC have been more interactive with their small community than any in recent memory and it is quite refreshing. Their concepts are exhilerating and their attempts at innovating are intriguing and exciting. That is a concept that i can get behind. Now into the main talking point. I would love to hear thoughts on increasing the longevity of this game and its ability to cement itself into mmo history. if you dont agree with me then feel free to throw your own thoughts into the mix and we will see what we can come up with!

Im going to try and touch on a few of my main points and see where it goes.

I absolutely love the node idea. It is a fantastic one that really brings out the importance of player development. While it makes the player feel powerful it also gives us something to contribute to bigger then ourselves. Add in the thought of your actions shaping the server you live in and you have a recipe for a great looking sandbox. I would love to see a runescape style take on this massive scale city development and to the player as well. Just the thought of being put into a raw world with no skills is a beautiful one. A true rpg that would reward every player completely differently based on how they themselves want to contribute to the place they call home. There was seldom a greater feeling in video games then seeing your hard work be worth something in the grand scheme of your server.

Now my next point has to do with another mmo giant: EVE Online.

There was just something about eve online and its ability to make you feel small. At times, it made you feel very small, but you always felt like you were making progress. There was just something about being a small time pilot, trying to make a name for yourself in this big galaxy. EVE had a complex leveling system and probably one of the most interesting way to stack knowledge that i have ever seen on a player. While the que to learn skills is a dated system, lets not take away from what a players willingness to dedicate time got them. It granted them the ability to put the real life time into a place where they wanted to go. If a player decided to be an asteroid minor as my friend did, then they put their irl time into every skill necessary to be the most efficient minor they could be. i chose a different path in that i spec'd to be our ore blockade runner to supply our operation. That led me down a skill path wildly different than his. We put the same amount of time into different things and got just that. Different results with different goals in mind. While we could have trained both sets of skills a piece, we would have lost out on time and as such it was not worth it. The game and addition of adding real life time to learning skills created a natural balance that made me feel impactful on our wildly small operation. Seldom have i experienced a game give me that same feeling. A game should reward you for putting time into it and you as a character should feel proficient in what you decide to dedicate your time to.

Some house cleaning mmo stuff.

Classes, Classes, Classes.
This is where some people may disagree with me and thats okay. I want to hear thoughts and concerns. I cannot stand the idea of one class purely being better then another for the sake of it. While some will argue class skill always wins out, there are many times that it does not. Yes, im referring to the trifecta. Every class should have the potential to be an absolutely dominant powerhouse given enough dedication. If you want to be a mage who has been training dark magic since launch, and it has consumed 5-6 months worth of dedication, you should be able to use that skill and dominate players who do not possess the necessary defenses. While at first glance this may seem unfair or overpowered, in reality it is not. That player made the choice to solely dedicate his time to magic and did not spend it doing anything else. His weaknesses show out when he is matched by the dark magic defense equivalent or fights an enemy that can protect himself. thus balancing his seemingly ridiculous power.

Feel Free to discuss because I want this game to be the last mmo I ever play and i have a good feeling about it.

Michael_Erbst

ArchivedUser

My biggest fear is with the node system, which I really like. The node system, as presented, show's an advancing world with events that react to changes. However, the risk lands with what will player's do between events and node advancements? To me this relates to your point above. If everyone finds the same rewards for doing different activities, or if the game favors rewards for some activities more than others, the game can become dull. (My answer to this is by implementing villains, see the bottom of this post)

So my worry is really, "will the core game be entertaining enough between node advancements and events to keep players engaged for a long time,and will Node advancement change enough about the world to keep players interested?" Though, if former part of that question is answered well enough, the latter part doesn't actually matter too much.

So now that I've explained my worry, here are what I believe could keep this game great. Please note, this is coming from a player who often play's mmo's solo or in small groups, finding the multiplayer interesting mostly because players provide a non-programmed variability(and sometimes threat) to the game.
- Exploration- Personally, this is one of the main things I play mmos for. Now, exploration doesn't just mean walking around and seeing new areas. It also means uncovering new monsters, finding hidden and unique treasures/spells/gifts, and uncovering threats or boons for your home. I always enjoyed the idea of getting lost in the tunnels under a volcano for a few hours, barely escaping the monsters there, and then finding a capsule that changes my race to a unique fire-based race- only accessible to those who found that spot.
-Combat Influence - If something exist to make combat matter. Leaderboards can do this. Maybe going undefeated at a Node's arena get's you a statue there. Maybe the city's king hire's you for special missions after you win a tournament or land the killing blow on a dragon. Basically, if the game has fun combat, it's nice to offer a small acknowledgement of those who worked to become skilled. Furthermore, it encourages players to work to become skilled.
- I have another post about Villains, which allows PvP conspiracies. Basically, this allows players to work against other players for a specific goal (the betterment or ruin of a node). The best thing this provides is that it takes PvP conspiracies out of the forums. Imagine hunting down another player for a few weeks, or working with other players to guard a mayor from that player, because you found out a Villain hired him to kill the town mayor. Note, I keep using combat as my example, but not all Villains need to be combat orientated. Preferably, some of them would gear towards non combat orientated players too. See the objectives "supply my soldiers with weapons and armor," "get the town to drain the lake of fish so that the monster beneath its surface attacks," and "find the rare plant rosebud and bring it to me!"

ArchivedUser

The fact this game is a sandbox makes it's leaps and bounds ahead of other MMOs out there.

And being a sandbox, it's going to depend a lot on community driven content. Guild competition, raids, running nodes, crafting, trade, basically everything that excites me about this game. So to answer your question: How can we make this the best MMO on the market? We play the damn thing; we play it like the MMOs players we are, generating a story, generating a world and generating all that sweet juicy player-driven-sandboxy content.

As far as classes go, I've always been more in favor of a "rock, paper, scissors" scenario, where there are just going to be some classes that you are strong against, and some you are weak toward. Your mage may jack up a warrior, but he's going to struggle w/ a rogue, ect. Yet, a good enough mage can beat a rogue and a good enough warrior can beat the average mage. This generates the need to assess a situation and figure "ok, will I be able to take this guy?" instead of just checking out gear score or worse yet, having a the "flavor of the week" classes that are just beating everyone. Zzzzzzzz

ArchivedUser

I have hope for this game. I hope it doesn@t devolve into a P2W game. It has so much potential.

ArchivedUser

I think if the developers make good on all their promises, then the game will be an amazing mmo. The concept of the game seems really fresh and innovative and that is sure to attract a lot of people. However, it really depends on how they execute these concepts.

ArchivedUser

The biggest thing I want is an extensive housing , farming, and animal husbandry system and a similar trade run system like ArcheAge. That was literally the only reason I played ArcheAge and I still love it but I can't play anymore due to how P2W it is now

ArchivedUser

How to make the best MMORPG on the market. First stop thinking about making the best MMORPG on the market. That is what has killed MMORPGS for 10 years. Everyone wants to be the next WOW.

Make this game more like SWG and older MMORPGs were Pre-WOW and stop trying to make it more like WOW outside of using an easy to use UI and Tab Target with a bit of action combat involved like they are doing. Thats it. Make the game how the developers want but listen to the player base about how to better their direction without trying to go from P2P to F2P like topics on this forum are, or go right to Action Combat because that is what a small group of people want.

The feedback on the game should be the combat feels slow because it takes me 3 seconds to cast and I have a 2.5 second global cool down. Or well these monsters in this open world dungeon can be easily soloed at level and I can hack and slash my way through this. Or Make crafting more of a focus with Item Decay and no Epic loot off of bosses.

ArchivedUser

One of the best ways is to focus on having<strong> a welcoming and helpful player base</strong> - As someone who plays Kerbal Space Program one of the best comments new players give the community is that long time players are understanding and extremely helpful which is in stark contrast to other game communities which seem to feed off of making new players feel unwelcome and useless.

New players are showing up every day now and long time AoC followers should do all they can to stay patient, provide useful answers, and generally make every new player asking the same old, seemingly endlessly repeated question feel as excited to be part of this new experience as the old timers were on that very first day they too stumbled upon AoC.

Everything else will be a bonus.

ArchivedUser

It's going to be a difficult road to traverse.
I've been playing MMOs for longer than I care to admit. Ok, I'll admit, I was one of the few racking up immense bills on AOL in neverwinter, prior to that I was using my TI994a and vic-20/c-64 to explore any other rpgs I could (while imagining the possibility of playing on-line with like minded individuals.

The biggest expansions of my on-line mind came with a few titles (UO comes to mind, Helbreath and then the mothership Galaxies). Somewhere the train got derailed and gamers were no longer "GAMERS" but were transitioned into a "need it now" or "don't want to work for it" society. The introduction of WOW crushed the ability to be what you wanted and do what you wanted into a cookie-cutter character creation that could experience end-game by "the end of the week". At the time WOW was in beta/release (and I participated as well as played for many, many years) I was also still a die-hard L2 fan (the last great grind out there) and tried perfect world, albion as well as a host of the "new" p2w genre that surfaced without finding a true home. At that point I was just going through the motions trying to find my escape (or life as many would call it).

That being said, in making the best MMO on the market you are going to face challenges in re-verting the instant gratification that has marred the face of MMOS of this generation. You will need to capture the interest (and maintain the interest) of players for years (not simply from patch to patch). I was a huge fan of the castle seiges in L2. This brought a pseudo change to the environment that was truly player driven (not relying on content developed via a patch). This is how I see the Node system in AoC and one of the main reasons I am so intently waiting on the moment I can join the world.

From the footage and videos I've seen, the graphics are there (current gen). The mindset and work ethic are there (progress in 14 months is phenomenal). The plan seems to be in-place (content direction and player interaction).

The caveat (there's always at least one) is the way that you would hold interest while the world is being built (in-game from a player perspective and participation). Arenas, limited PvP areas and heavy reliance on crafting/gathering will help to give players a sense of belonging (or achievement) and help to entice people to move forward. The ability to unlock world content on successful completion of tasks (generating advanced level nodes) is sure to develop communities within communities and that needs to be supported.

The intrigue (the way I interpret it) is going to be in the ability of players to unlock specific content generated by the normal progression and game-play through this world.

I think in making it the best "MMO on the market" you will need to rely heavily on the player base and incorporating as many of the community voiced opinions and suggestions as you can without compromising the integrity of the world as you (Intrepid Studios) envision it.

*hops off the soapbox*

ArchivedUser

I totally agree with Morashtak's opinion. Having a welcoming playerbase is the key to success for most MMORPG's, if the game itself isn't that welcoming. I've also been playing MMORPG's for many years now and more than often enough i've stumbled onto games that just drown newcomers with their complexity, making it very difficult to motivate myself to keep playing the game. And since this is going to be a sandbox MMORPG, I think that factor will become more important than for other games out there.

Another very important aspect, as mentioned earlier, is that you need to have a wide variety of things that can be done to get better items or farm gold than just one single "main event". That main event will get stale eventually and if you have many different things to do that won't be a problem aswell.

But overall, good, dynamical PvP, enjoyable farming, player housing etc. are also very important to the game. And I really hope AoC will reach my expectations, for too long we've waited for the next huge MMORPG out there. Let this be the one.

ArchivedUser

I think almost everything has already been said. We need an active and welcoming playerbase so we can generate the big player-driven stories that make sandbox so appealing.

We need to embrace the idea of creating our own content. Player-organised PVP tournaments where the guilds can show of their power by sending in their champions. Instigating a big alliance to take down the central node in all the game...why? just for fun and change! Maybe we need to add a bit of intrigue and backstabbing here and there (but not with the new players obviously..take on someone your own size pls^^)

After all, we are the returning children of this world...

ArchivedUser

While this all sounds great. i'm worried bots are going to destroy it.

Sounds like we could be in for 40 alt crafting armies or Landlords & Larders 2

ArchivedUser

1. Meaningful progression.
2. Vertical vs Horizontal progression.
3. Eternal progression.

Alas you cant just say 'tough' to the new players, as the vets leave them further and further behind and the game company has an ever harder time, trying to fill that gap with content suitable for both and all stages between. Old content becomes ever more irrelevant to vets. New content becomes ever more irrelevant to new players. More and more content becomes obsolete. New players walk away from a gap that can never be bridged. Old players leave as the player base shrinks. Until only the staunchest of Vets revel in their godlike noob crushing powers and private content..... as the game shuts it doors through lack of new funding. Power corrupts. And those with power only ever crave even more power to pamper their selfish egos.

If you are serious about longevity, then you have to fix that problem before it even starts. Power creep and vertical progression is the bane of every single MMO in existence, because rather than fostering inclusion it fosters exclusion. Exclusion from team play. Exclusion from content. Exclusion from social circles. It builds artificial barriers between people where the whole point of an MMO is to create a community experience. Meet new people. Play with anyone and everyone, anywhere, anytime on anything available. MMOs shouldnt be building social barriers, but breaking them. Thus, god mode is for solo play only. Thus the functional line between new player and vet should not even exist as a thing. Which means no matter how old the Vet player is, new players must be on a level footing....somehow...someway.

BUT...that doesnt mean you cant have meaningful, eternal horizontal progression either. ESO pretty much cracked this by;
a. Having 100s of tiny skills that have miniature vertical progressions (Limitless options).
b. Limiting how many of those skills can be active at anytime with a toolbar (Meaningful choices).
c. Requiring both adventure and relevant activity to level those skills (Meaningful/eternal progress).
But even here it was flawed with a lack of skill penalties to go with skill buffs.
The new player only has to level enough skills to fill the toolbar to be competitive.
The old player has a never ending journey of self discovery, acquiring new skills and playing with different combinations, until they find their own personal style, that fits them like a glove.

You see that the difference between the options of horizontal progress and the power of vertical progress.
One generates a rainbow of parallel variety in a fully inclusive peer based game world.
One generates clones of the latest OP FoTM build in limited 'endgame' master content with the remaining slave world obsolete.
One world can be taken at any pace you like.
One world is a race to the top and if you snooze ..you lose.

ArchivedUser

By making the game challenging and have meaningful progression for both items and story. Also by having cool mechanics ( example what if ashes of creation took Sword Art Online mechanics where as a character can learn dual wielding basic on certain stats value). I mean a quote comes to mind of it works why fix it? I mean we all have played multiple mmorpgs so why can't we just use what's best for each and just make an incredible game.

ArchivedUser

-No gender lock
-No pay to win

two things that really put me off mmos.

ArchivedUser

Discovery: Hidden quests; learnable secret powers, skills, trades granted only by discovery.

I'd like to participate in an MMO where a player's actions can reveal hidden secrets, through their interaction in the game, and in general cannot be duplicated by following in the discoverer's footsteps.