End Game Raid/Dungeon Idea (Procedurally generated)

ArchivedUser

Hello,

This is my first post having seen TheLazyPeons video which drew my attention to AOC. Bit of back ground on me, I played WoW since release with breaks to play other MMO's such as Age of Conan, Eve Online, Wildstar, STOR, Rift and many others. I also now coincidentally work for a large videogame publisher who shall remain unnamed (but they do not make MMO's) :)

I have always been passionate about MMO's, One thing that caused me to burn out in the hardcore progression seen with my group of friends from Sweden that I have raided with for many years on and off is the lack of variety in end game progression. Its really just rinse and repeat until you get the kill, and some times that can be a soul destroying process that inevitably makes you want to quit the game.

My question is, Will/should AOC consider procedural generated end game dungeons and raids? I am a big fan of many rogue lite games and have noticed other new mmo's picking up on this design style to give their player base variety and a sense of endless playtime. This could mean several options:
1. Trash that changes type/combinations every run
2. Bosses that have a roster of say 12, but only 3 are included each reset (if there are resets)
3. Different paths that can be taken through the raid which provide no significant advantage but different scenery/ lore
4. Alternative loot from every boss, to avoid people skipping content to get to the one boss they want for that super epic sword of flame

I'm sure there are many other ways the raids could become procedural generated which would expand the life time appeal of the raid massively I feel.

Looking forward to backing this when it goes to crowdfunding (if it does) and currently looking for a guild :D

Let me know your ideas/ thoughts below :)

ArchivedUser

Welcome to the community!

That sounds good, but at the end, it will become repetitive no matter what developers do. But still, I think this is still a nice idea and developers should think about it.

If you want to talk you can join on Discord <a href="http://discord.gg/ashesofcreation" target="_blank">here.</a>

ArchivedUser

I like the idea of procedurally generated dungeons, although I fear some people will reject the idea due to RNG.

ArchivedUser

From memory, so don't quote me if I'm wrong.. But I think that the dungeons change as the node levels change as the change in the node level will alter the Zone of Influence around it.

The game is in pre-alpha so there is a huge amount that could be subject to change, and the Devs may look at dungeons and how to reduce repetitiveness, but they may also stick to the way MMO's have been doing it for years and make it so everyone gets the same experience every time in a dungeon.

ArchivedUser

Good ideas here. I think we need to first see how Dungeons change with the node system in Alpha. As long as Dungeons do not become a treadmill and 1 of 2 paths to gear gear I think Dungeons changing is a good thing.

ArchivedUser

Random dungeon was one of the thing I liked back when I was playing EQ, did give player the obligation to adapt and that was something I liked.

I'm not sure how raid would played out that way since dealing with 20 people without any knowledge of what's going on will be hard for some. Though I am sure that up to 8 we will be able to manage.

ArchivedUser

Question if the dungeons and raids change base on which node we have leveled, will the gear ( weps and armor) level be affected. Like what if we level the first node shown in the YouTube videos and we get a dragon raid would that armor lvl be the same as say a note to the north?

ArchivedUser

I think as long as we actually have some modification of dungeons it will be a good thing, just so that if people manage to do the same one while it is there it will be a fresh experience. With the nodes leveling and deleveling it could open a wall, or have a rock slide cover it back up etc. That could of course cover an extra boss or two so you get the feeling of it being opened up and explored as the node goes up.

I think that with how often the nodes will rise and fall some dungeons will only be there for a short period of time, so even if you have run it enough to know how everything works it would still feel fresh and new if you haven't gone through it in a month or two. I do like the idea of having the gear change with each progression though, it would make it feel rewarding to level the node, and the monsters difficulty could rise with each bump as well.

ArchivedUser

Here are my thoughts on procedurally generated dungeons in a "Pros and Cons" format with a solution at the end:

Pros:
A lot more content
Using procedurally generated dungeons means that you can make a ton of content without much work

Easier for developers to make more content
With this, you can also easily crank out more content for your players with little work allowing you to focus on other aspects of the game.

More possible variety to content
With a lot of different dungeons, there's going to be a lot of variety to dungeons as a whole

More replayability for players
If each dungeon has factors in it that can be random with each entry it can give the feeling that each dungeon can be new and exciting.

Cons:

Lesser quality of content
With this method generating a lot of dungeons and a lot of content means that developers aren't going to be able to put the fine details into every dungeon like they would outside of procedurally generated content.

Pointless content
Also using this method sure there will be a lot of different dungeons but will it feel like there's any point to them even being there? <em>Is there a reason in the local lore for me to even be here? Why bother doing this dungeon here when I can go to the more popular dungeon or a known easier dungeon and get the same gear or better gear?</em>

Solution(s):

Middle ground between Procedurally Generated and Manually Generated
So use the algorithms to make "basic" dungeons and then developers can come in after and touch them up. Yes this will mean more work than just using the Procedurally Generated method but it will at least less the load of work while still being ability to focus on quality.

Make a limited amount of Procedurally Generated Dungeons
Instead of using the procedurally generated method to make all your dungeons use it to make at most 50% of your dungeons. For the other 50% focus on making them the dungeons that are important lore wise or the more challenging dungeons.

Add unique factors
For the procedurally generated dungeons add unique factors when making these dungeons to add more spice to the dungeons. This could be hidden rooms, challenging puzzles, link them to other dungeons, etc. Adding these factors might be an easy way to spice up the content without having to put in a lot of work.

This sums up my thoughts on the matter feel free to let me know what you think about what I said and point out and possible flaws with it!