Shops!

ArchivedUser

I like a player driven game but if player driven then u need to be aboul to put up a shop like at ur house, resticted places on a streat and buildings players can buy or rent to have as action houses or some kind of shop. There is so many kinds of shops in games like in door shops, places used to make gear or buy mounts from, farmes, out door shops in streats so it is like a market place with all kinds of stuff to buy and bars to buy food and drinks at. But if shops come for players to use I do like it if it is restricted in some way so we do not have playershops take up the streat so much u can not see what there is to buy or shops that do show things that they are not selling. It is more fun if the only things that u can see in the shops is what they have for sale.
It is a little over the edge but if a player based marked like this will work, then it be more of a living game and will make some players that like it spend more time in the game

ArchivedUser

That sounds awesome. It would be really nice for players who love crafting to have a real place to sell their goods.
To prevent shops to take over all place and make it impossible to find the shop your looking for maybe they can make a system
so a few or more players can share a shop if they agree upon it. I think it will be hard to run a shop on your own sinds players will constantly be in need for new stuf and you can't keep a shop running 24/7 on your own. Then you would also have multiple supliers for each shop because again if it was one person your shop would be out of stuf in a few hours or less.
But that idea is really awesome man. I really hope they do something like that :)

ArchivedUser

I like this idea !!!

ArchivedUser

:D YAh i think player driven games are awesome too, they make it so that the game is unique in it's own special way by how the players use their power tho change the world around them.

ArchivedUser

I would find it very interesting to own a shop and be able to run it my own way, but what will happen to the shop while im questing, gathering ingredients , doing a raide or a siedge, or even offline?
How about this, you can hire NPCs to clean your shop and run it for you with a fixed price when your not there. like a shops asistent, Or an aprentice ( whatever your proffecion is )

Lets say you are an alchemist, you can teach your aprentice some simple recieps and while you are in the shop taking care of it he can run out for an hour or 2 ( in game time ) and gather ingredients for those potions, nothing to hard to get. it would give you a bit more of a RP feel .

its atleast something i would feel fun.

ArchivedUser

I think that what will most likely happen is that there will be a finite number of shops (to limit crowding like you mentioned) kind of like they are alluding to a finite number of houses per city. I would imagine that the majority of shops will be run by guilds and that very few will be run by individuals.

ArchivedUser

And/Or....what about a weekly market. You buy/rent a 'table' to display your goods, kind of like a farmer's market, this would also create a cool event every week populated by lots of players selling all kinds of goods, weapons, armor, food, etc. Maybe have some tournaments, and/or games of chance tables...lots to work with.

ArchivedUser

As long as the cost of things isn't sky high I am game.

ArchivedUser

That would create a true living economy which I would love to see 

ArchivedUser

You can already "hire" stalls in the city, but being able to sell stuff at your freehold is a good idea, I suggested something of a similar scope, having an Inn and having a noticeboard to post quests. Devs said they are looking into it but can't promise to implement it. 

If they do, it's a small change to make it into a store.

ArchivedUser

Yeah, I'm sure that if you really want to set up a shop at your freehold, you just need to run it. You don't have to have an 'official' auto / off line system. All you need is some sort of protection for your stock (ie lock boxes)  and to be there to take the money

ArchivedUser

I'd like to have a merchant selling outside/inside my freehold DAoC style.

ArchivedUser

I think it would be soooo immersive if players could make custom costumes if they're a tailor or something, would be very interesting, or even just dye your current outfit would be enough, but I think that would take a lot of space.

ArchivedUser

I don't think the need for an automatic sytem is required. Think about it, no store can run 24/7 in real life without having multiple people running it during night shifts, and unless you can get people who are in different time zones to run the store while you are off to sleep or working, you would just simply close down the shop. Yes, you wouldn't make money or be able to offer your services, but you wouldn't be able to in real life either. In my opinion, experience > efficiency.

ArchivedUser

Infernoid said:

I don't think the need for an automatic sytem is required. Think about it, no store can run 24/7 in real life without having multiple people running it during night shifts, and unless you can get people who are in different time zones to run the store while you are off to sleep or working, you would just simply close down the shop. Yes, you wouldn't make money or be able to offer your services, but you wouldn't be able to in real life either. In my opinion, experience > efficiency.

I second that

ArchivedUser

I do know that Steven mentioned having shops in the game in the city and/or on your Freehold property, and even the possibility of "hired help" to run the shop when you're not actively online.  He even mentioned a possibility of incorporating a phone app to help manage it or look at the activity when you're away, too.

Obviously, none of it is set-in-stone, since it hasn't really been created or implemented yet.  But it all brings up great points of @Infernoid and @Image

I think it "should" be more player-driven and player-centric, even if it means buying a place, then "renting it" so-to-speak with multiple people, perhaps in different time-zones to stay open more.  This would essentially create a marketplace that can change based on the time of day.

Even though I love this idea conceptually, I would probably be against it, because real-life basically mandates that I participate in the real world far more than the game, and would not have the time to manage my store, product, or prices, every day, let alone every hour of the day.

It would be great to have if they have a few systems in place to help facilitate this, too.  Perhaps create a "stall renter" type system and actively recruit people (or apply for stalls) for a limited amount of time, and give a percentage of the sales to the stall owner.  This creates a more immersive market, giving incentive to own the stall as well as be competitive in multiple ways.

ArchivedUser

Gloiler said:

I like a player driven game but if player driven then u need to be aboul to put up a shop like at ur house, resticted places on a streat and buildings players can buy or rent to have as action houses or some kind of shop. There is so many kinds of shops in games like in door shops, places used to make gear or buy mounts from, farmes, out door shops in streats so it is like a market place with all kinds of stuff to buy and bars to buy food and drinks at. But if shops come for players to use I do like it if it is restricted in some way so we do not have playershops take up the streat so much u can not see what there is to buy or shops that do show things that they are not selling. It is more fun if the only things that u can see in the shops is what they have for sale.
It is a little over the edge but if a player based marked like this will work, then it be more of a living game and will make some players that like it spend more time in the game

This is one thing I really liked about Second Life, you had restricted space to put up your shops based on your rental tier.

ArchivedUser

nagash  (The 'Lord of Undeath') said:

That would create a true living economy which I would love to see 

Just being picky, but I don't quite understand how the 'Lord of UNDEATH' would love to see a truly living economy!!!  Ok - pedantic rant over

ArchivedUser

More seriously, re Shops: Would it be helpful for a player to only have access to a shop of their own once they've proven themselves proficient to Level  'x' as a harvester/crafter?

ArchivedUser

Caelron said:

I do know that Steven mentioned having shops in the game in the city and/or on your Freehold property, and even the possibility of "hired help" to run the shop when you're not actively online.  He even mentioned a possibility of incorporating a phone app to help manage it or look at the activity when you're away, too.

Obviously, none of it is set-in-stone, since it hasn't really been created or implemented yet.  But it all brings up great points of @Infernoid and @Image

I think it "should" be more player-driven and player-centric, even if it means buying a place, then "renting it" so-to-speak with multiple people, perhaps in different time-zones to stay open more.  This would essentially create a marketplace that can change based on the time of day.

Even though I love this idea conceptually, I would probably be against it, because real-life basically mandates that I participate in the real world far more than the game, and would not have the time to manage my store, product, or prices, every day, let alone every hour of the day.

It would be great to have if they have a few systems in place to help facilitate this, too.  Perhaps create a "stall renter" type system and actively recruit people (or apply for stalls) for a limited amount of time, and give a percentage of the sales to the stall owner.  This creates a more immersive market, giving incentive to own the stall as well as be competitive in multiple ways.

And you can imagine that, if there are indeed - one day - such player-owned/run shops and resulting 'economies,' how much we'd really want to protect that against outside threat to our particular town etc!

ArchivedUser

I would imagine they would put a system in where there is a central market area and players can rent space in that area to sell their goods at for a limited time. After the time expires you have to win the auction for that space again to keep your shop their. Of course you can always have a permanent shop in your freehold. The tricky part is getting people to go to your freehold. 

In UO you could buy houses and set up vendors that sell your stuff. Then you would go to the main bank area where everybody did business and advertise your goods. You would then lay out marked runes or open teleport gates so people can just recall or teleport right to your vendors.

ArchivedUser

If shops are to operate successfully, there would probably need some consolidation in their locality within cities. 

And if the cities are to be successful, they need to have some city planning thought.


Clusters of shops would attract people to come and browse.

Individual shops located in random places, may not be as successful as players will need to go out of their way to find them. Hence, the frequency that get viewed, comparitively, will be low.

Happy for either, but preference would be to only allow alternative locations to the dedicated areas in the city, when they are full only

ArchivedUser

Great ideas all around. Would love to see player run shops pop up in city nodes at certain node levels. It would also be interesting to see where these areas pop up on different servers/nodes. Anyone remember "The Tunnels" between Freeport and North Ro Desert in Everquest? It was an amazing experience. It is my hope that this game will allow player driven markets to thrive. Auction house systems like WoW or Diablo III are just stale, boring, and tedious.

ArchivedUser

The cities will have planning for market places - we can vote to influence some of that.
Shops and freeholds will be based on wherever people are able to acquire housing.
We will remember the shops and shopkeepers we like and frequent those.
As we do in real life.

ArchivedUser

Rathganis said:

Great ideas all around. Would love to see player run shops pop up in city nodes at certain node levels. It would also be interesting to see where these areas pop up on different servers/nodes. Anyone remember "The Tunnels" between Freeport and North Ro Desert in Everquest? It was an amazing experience. It is my hope that this game will allow player driven markets to thrive. Auction house systems like WoW or Diablo III are just stale, boring, and tedious.

Tell us more about the "Tunnels".

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:

The cities will have planning for market places - we can vote to influence some of that.
Shops and freeholds will be based on wherever people are able to acquire housing.
We will remember the shops and shopkeepers we like and frequent those.
As we do in real life.

Yep, the only instance I can find of Steven touching on this subject is one of the node videos where they show stalls in the "city center" of an economic node. The benefit of the economic node is stated as being able to do vendor/item searches within that nodes ZOI at metropolis level. I imagine the rental/biddable stalls in the city center may function similar to ESO with a time limit and highest bidder winning the slot for the time period (though nothing confirmed as of yet) adding yet another reason for conflict when one guild tries to "outmuscle" people on trade by choking off player vendor access.

ArchivedUser

This might be another good idea. you can set up a freehold near a tavern hold outside the city with shops as both guilds and parties looking to do dungeon/RSS gathering/crafting will all likely frequent a tavern as a "stop" on there way. this allows said people to look at the goods around the tavern for supplies that the tavern itself might not have and potentially at a cheaper price then in the city itself making freeholds in such a situation a valid source of income. (EX: blacksmith near a tavern offering 3/4th the price of repair compared to some one in the city because they are simply near a tavern outside of the city.) as well as the devs touching on the topic of "hired help", it might be possible for said blacksmith to hire some one (npc or other) to do miner repair. In this manner it could also be applied to other freeholds offering services in that local area making a "mini market district" outside the city but still benefiting the market of the city they are near. Also to point out the dev's touched on Taverns having a "board" to potentially rent space on which these said freeholds can then buy to let people know how far away they are from the tavern and in what direction and what they offer for what price. Mind you none of this is set in stone and as we all know is subject to change or differ in practicality. (though i do hope something like this will be done)

ArchivedUser

@Kenru Taverns are built on freeholds, not near them. Player controlled and operated. So while I would "direct" people to my blacksmith on the same freehold, why would I want to send people to other competitors to buy their stuff. Now since we won't be able to master every craft, I could see maybe a limited partnership with someone nearby who say maybe makes potions when you do not. But, in most cases, just like a casino, you are going to want to provide as many services as you can "in house" to keep them there and spending on your property.

ArchivedUser

@UnknownSystemError
the Tavern would hold notices on their board for people to have a look at as well as buy space on (the only way for you not to advertise other players business is if the tavern holder has the ability to take the notice down themselves), as of right now the only thing the dev's have hinted at for taverns is that you could get buffs from food/sleeping in a room/games/buy/sell space on the notice board, and that kinda stuff for a tavern. But for blacksmiths, woodworking, tailoring, and farms, a tavern most likely wouldn't have that kinda thing but if those things are around a tavern for people to go to, it might "spread" by word that this little freehold community is cheap or you can get a lot of what you need closer to the area your going or the likes.

as for "taverns are built on freeholds", yes i know. i just called it a Tavern hold because almost all of your freehold would likely be dedicated to nothing but that. Having a Tavern on your freehold might have a trade off. EX: no farm or blacksmith forge and so on un-tell it has a bigger plot. (if a bigger plot is possible)

ArchivedUser

EDIT: a double post of my above comment ^

ArchivedUser

I hope the nodes don't get over-saturated to where you can't put up a shop of your own. Also, if you're looking for something specific, is there going to be some kind of a search option within the node or do you have to manually click on each shop to see their wares?