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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Crafting System - My thoughts and Ideas (v.2)
ArchivedUser
Guest
So I just wanted to start off saying that this is <em>my</em> opinion on how a good crafting system should work and some key features that need to be included in the game in order to make it work. Also I'm reposting this because my last post disappeared.
<strong> Overview of the system</strong>
1. <em>There must be an Item Decay System</em>.
Not having an Item Decay System simply causes the market to be flooded with an excessive amount of items making a crafter's job, less meaningful and less profitable. This not only applies to gear but also to consumable items such as food or potion.
2. <em>All the professions are linked to one another.</em>
So, for example, say I'm a blacksmith getting ready to make a spear. Well, I need a wooden pole to put the spearhead on. I don't want just some stick from the woods. I need a strong wooden pole made out of some very durable wood that I don't know how to work with. So I would go to a Woodworker and get the item required. With this feature all professions will, more than likely, have substantial business because for other professions to do their jobs it requires them to seek out other professions. Now you don't want to have to rely heavily on other professions to craft your items so you want to limit that to a degree.
3. <em>Ingredient Quality</em>
So what does Ingredient Quality mean? Essentially it means that say I have learned the plans to make a low-level sword. There are 4 necessary components to making this sword. 1: The blade 2: The hilt 3: The pommel 4: The handle. Now there are base requirements for this specific sword. I can't use iron for it because it doesn't meet the design requirements so I have to at least use steel for the blade. But wait I want to make this sword the best blade of its kind. So I decide to use the highest kind of ore available Titanium. And instead, I use the minimum requirements for the other pieces of this sword. Well, this sword would then have higher than normal qualities for attack damage compared to other swords made with base materials. You can use this system to add a unique feature to the crafting system and add a lot of diversity to it at the same time.
4. <em>Progression as a Crafter</em>.
All too often in modern MMOs in order to hone your craft all you need is money, time, and a city to sit in for hours. This system I feel is very flawed. Do I believe there should be a grind to crafting? Absolutely. Crafting should be treated as a type of side class. And with classes, you have to level up go on adventures and learn new techniques. The same should be in place for crafting. If I'm a blacksmith and I want to learn a new style of smithing I should have to go to a faraway village and befriend the local populace in order to gain their trust and learn the secret to their craft. Or go to a volcano and fight my way in to reach a legendary anvil so I can work on it for awhile, enduring the local environment to grasp how to work with hotter metals. With this feature, it makes it so that crafting isn't something you just sit and spam item after item and eventually reach the zenith of your profession. It makes it so that you have to go out and explore. Have adventures. Which is why we play MMOs, to begin with.
5. I'm gonna go over the next few features briefly.
<strong><em>Boss Items</em></strong>: Boss items are either broken forms of an item or uncompleted forms of an item that require you to find a crafter to finish or repair it. (Not all boss items but a good amount).
<strong> <em>Soulbound Items</em></strong>: Mostly BoE(Bind on Equip) instead of BoP(Bind on Pickup) having this feature adds more demand for items.
<strong><em>Profession Stalls/Shops</em></strong>: Make it so that players can set up stalls in a marketplace of towns or cities to sell their wares either AFK or after hiring an NPC to sell them for them. This way you're not reliant on having a global auction house which has proven to be detrimental to a solid game economy system. Also for the crafters that have earned a lot of money allow them to buy buildings in town and turn them into shops where they can display their items. All their hard work should have some kind of reward. And with these shops, they can let other players put in basic orders to be automatically completed without the players' intervention by their apprentice. Like basic materials needed for other professions for example.
<strong><em>Make them needed in the game world</em></strong> So say a city gets sieged and walls are destroyed. After the attackers are fended off woodworkers and blacksmiths can work to rebuild the walls. Is the army gearing up for war? Tailors and Leatherworkers can help make items for the war. They're going to need mounts for the war so tamers can go out and tame them. So I just wanted to start off saying that this is <em>my</em> opinion on how a good crafting system should work and some key features that need to be included in the game in order to make it work.
6. <em>Gathering Professions</em>.
So a lot of people might not agree with this but I'm going to go ahead and say it. Everyone should be able to gather items. You shouldn't need to be an expert to skin a deer, pick a flower, or hit a rock with a pick. <strong>Everyone should be able to get at least base level ingredients</strong> One reason for this is if all the professions are going to be linked to each other then letting everyone be able to gather means that people can't exploit others for the items that their profession has to make for their new creation. Also with this system you can make it so that if the material is related to your profession strongly you can get more of it. Some examples tailors can get more cloth from clothing scraps from enemies. Blacksmiths get more ore from mining the same resource that someone else mines. Woodworkers get more timber. You can also make it so that for really special ingredients say a special ore. Only blacksmiths have the skill to collect it.
7. <em>Make the items and services of a crafter be needed</em>.
For example, I can go into town and buy food from a tavern or bakery and load up for my adventure but the food I get from there is very basic and doesn't recover my health much at all. But if I go to a player chef's stall or he himself, I can buy food that will completely restore my health and maybe even give me a buff if I want to dish out a bit more coin. If I want to get my gear repaired I can go to a basic blacksmith shop in town and have them repair it to the minimal amount or go to a player shop or he himself and have him repair it to the max. Using this system makes it so that: Player crafters are needed, It encourages players to become crafters themselves, and greatly boosts the economy of the game.
<em>Ideas for professions</em>
1. Alchemists: Makes potions (restore health/mana),/Dyes/ Elixirs ( Long time buffs)/Cures.
2. Blacksmiths: Weapons/Armor/Nails for woodworkers/Horseshoes for tamers/
3. Tamers: All mounts have to be tamed by them/Pets have to be tamed by them/Cattle for food can be raised by them/
4. Tailors: Makes all cloth wares for priests and such/ Makes all undershirts/Makes ropes needed to make ships
5. Leatherworkers: Saddles for tamers/Hardened Leather Armor/Leather straps for siege weapons
6. Scribe: Makes more detailed maps/Give players tattoos/Make scrolls for spell use/Engrave designs on armor
7. Woodworkers: Bows/Staves/Wands/Siege weapons/Boats/Player stalls/
8. Cook: Food (Obviously)
9. Engineers: Guns/Cannons/Traps/Devices
10. Imbuing: Add special qualities to gear/Repowers magical items
11. Jeweler: Necklaces/Rings/Earrings/Gems
I'm sorry for this wall of text but I believe this adequetly covers the ideal crafting system for MMOs. For those of you that read it all the way through I appreciate you taking the time to do so and I would love to hear everyones thoughts whether you read it through or not. I also plan to be doing similar posts for other systems in the game such as combat questing housing etc so if you'd like to hear more about my ideas on those sort of things keep and eye out for my future posts!
<strong> Overview of the system</strong>
1. <em>There must be an Item Decay System</em>.
Not having an Item Decay System simply causes the market to be flooded with an excessive amount of items making a crafter's job, less meaningful and less profitable. This not only applies to gear but also to consumable items such as food or potion.
2. <em>All the professions are linked to one another.</em>
So, for example, say I'm a blacksmith getting ready to make a spear. Well, I need a wooden pole to put the spearhead on. I don't want just some stick from the woods. I need a strong wooden pole made out of some very durable wood that I don't know how to work with. So I would go to a Woodworker and get the item required. With this feature all professions will, more than likely, have substantial business because for other professions to do their jobs it requires them to seek out other professions. Now you don't want to have to rely heavily on other professions to craft your items so you want to limit that to a degree.
3. <em>Ingredient Quality</em>
So what does Ingredient Quality mean? Essentially it means that say I have learned the plans to make a low-level sword. There are 4 necessary components to making this sword. 1: The blade 2: The hilt 3: The pommel 4: The handle. Now there are base requirements for this specific sword. I can't use iron for it because it doesn't meet the design requirements so I have to at least use steel for the blade. But wait I want to make this sword the best blade of its kind. So I decide to use the highest kind of ore available Titanium. And instead, I use the minimum requirements for the other pieces of this sword. Well, this sword would then have higher than normal qualities for attack damage compared to other swords made with base materials. You can use this system to add a unique feature to the crafting system and add a lot of diversity to it at the same time.
4. <em>Progression as a Crafter</em>.
All too often in modern MMOs in order to hone your craft all you need is money, time, and a city to sit in for hours. This system I feel is very flawed. Do I believe there should be a grind to crafting? Absolutely. Crafting should be treated as a type of side class. And with classes, you have to level up go on adventures and learn new techniques. The same should be in place for crafting. If I'm a blacksmith and I want to learn a new style of smithing I should have to go to a faraway village and befriend the local populace in order to gain their trust and learn the secret to their craft. Or go to a volcano and fight my way in to reach a legendary anvil so I can work on it for awhile, enduring the local environment to grasp how to work with hotter metals. With this feature, it makes it so that crafting isn't something you just sit and spam item after item and eventually reach the zenith of your profession. It makes it so that you have to go out and explore. Have adventures. Which is why we play MMOs, to begin with.
5. I'm gonna go over the next few features briefly.
<strong><em>Boss Items</em></strong>: Boss items are either broken forms of an item or uncompleted forms of an item that require you to find a crafter to finish or repair it. (Not all boss items but a good amount).
<strong> <em>Soulbound Items</em></strong>: Mostly BoE(Bind on Equip) instead of BoP(Bind on Pickup) having this feature adds more demand for items.
<strong><em>Profession Stalls/Shops</em></strong>: Make it so that players can set up stalls in a marketplace of towns or cities to sell their wares either AFK or after hiring an NPC to sell them for them. This way you're not reliant on having a global auction house which has proven to be detrimental to a solid game economy system. Also for the crafters that have earned a lot of money allow them to buy buildings in town and turn them into shops where they can display their items. All their hard work should have some kind of reward. And with these shops, they can let other players put in basic orders to be automatically completed without the players' intervention by their apprentice. Like basic materials needed for other professions for example.
<strong><em>Make them needed in the game world</em></strong> So say a city gets sieged and walls are destroyed. After the attackers are fended off woodworkers and blacksmiths can work to rebuild the walls. Is the army gearing up for war? Tailors and Leatherworkers can help make items for the war. They're going to need mounts for the war so tamers can go out and tame them. So I just wanted to start off saying that this is <em>my</em> opinion on how a good crafting system should work and some key features that need to be included in the game in order to make it work.
6. <em>Gathering Professions</em>.
So a lot of people might not agree with this but I'm going to go ahead and say it. Everyone should be able to gather items. You shouldn't need to be an expert to skin a deer, pick a flower, or hit a rock with a pick. <strong>Everyone should be able to get at least base level ingredients</strong> One reason for this is if all the professions are going to be linked to each other then letting everyone be able to gather means that people can't exploit others for the items that their profession has to make for their new creation. Also with this system you can make it so that if the material is related to your profession strongly you can get more of it. Some examples tailors can get more cloth from clothing scraps from enemies. Blacksmiths get more ore from mining the same resource that someone else mines. Woodworkers get more timber. You can also make it so that for really special ingredients say a special ore. Only blacksmiths have the skill to collect it.
7. <em>Make the items and services of a crafter be needed</em>.
For example, I can go into town and buy food from a tavern or bakery and load up for my adventure but the food I get from there is very basic and doesn't recover my health much at all. But if I go to a player chef's stall or he himself, I can buy food that will completely restore my health and maybe even give me a buff if I want to dish out a bit more coin. If I want to get my gear repaired I can go to a basic blacksmith shop in town and have them repair it to the minimal amount or go to a player shop or he himself and have him repair it to the max. Using this system makes it so that: Player crafters are needed, It encourages players to become crafters themselves, and greatly boosts the economy of the game.
<em>Ideas for professions</em>
1. Alchemists: Makes potions (restore health/mana),/Dyes/ Elixirs ( Long time buffs)/Cures.
2. Blacksmiths: Weapons/Armor/Nails for woodworkers/Horseshoes for tamers/
3. Tamers: All mounts have to be tamed by them/Pets have to be tamed by them/Cattle for food can be raised by them/
4. Tailors: Makes all cloth wares for priests and such/ Makes all undershirts/Makes ropes needed to make ships
5. Leatherworkers: Saddles for tamers/Hardened Leather Armor/Leather straps for siege weapons
6. Scribe: Makes more detailed maps/Give players tattoos/Make scrolls for spell use/Engrave designs on armor
7. Woodworkers: Bows/Staves/Wands/Siege weapons/Boats/Player stalls/
8. Cook: Food (Obviously)
9. Engineers: Guns/Cannons/Traps/Devices
10. Imbuing: Add special qualities to gear/Repowers magical items
11. Jeweler: Necklaces/Rings/Earrings/Gems
I'm sorry for this wall of text but I believe this adequetly covers the ideal crafting system for MMOs. For those of you that read it all the way through I appreciate you taking the time to do so and I would love to hear everyones thoughts whether you read it through or not. I also plan to be doing similar posts for other systems in the game such as combat questing housing etc so if you'd like to hear more about my ideas on those sort of things keep and eye out for my future posts!
0
Comments
<strong> Overview of the system</strong>
1. <em>There must be an Item Decay System</em>.
[/quote]
"Must" is a strong word but a decay system would add emphasis to the artisan system.
[quote]
2. <em>All the professions are linked to one another.</em>
[/quote]
Might not be linked directly but with enough indirect links the crafters would need to cooperate closely.
[quote]
3. <em>Ingredient Quality</em>
[/quote]
The Processing step of the Artisan system (Gathering, Processing, Crafting) might be coded to increase the quality or, with improper processing, degrade the quality.
[quote]
4. <em>Progression as a Crafter</em>.
[/quote]
Death's Proxy has a good vid on the Artisan system (Videos #10 and 10.1) where he covers the jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none or master of one when it comes to this. ex. A player can be a great miner, OR a great smelter, OR a great weaponsmith/armorsmith but not great in all three. This applies to all the Artisan classes.
[quote]
5. I’m gonna go over the next few features briefly.
<strong><em>Boss Items</em></strong>: Boss items are either broken forms of an item or uncompleted forms of an item that require you to find a crafter to finish or repair it. (Not all boss items but a good amount).
[/quote]
Or rare materials that are in their horde or are a part of their corpse.
[quote]
<strong> <em>Soulbound Items</em></strong>: Mostly BoE(Bind on Equip) instead of BoP(Bind on Pickup) having this feature adds more demand for items.
[/quote]
These are old concepts - Steven may have a different take on the whole "glued to your hand forever" mechanic that other games have. Personally hoping that this game no items that come with Super Glue for hilts. A decay system that makes it more expensive to repair worn equipment in relation to the quality of the item would help empty gold pouches.
[quote]
<strong><em>Profession Stalls/Shops</em></strong>:
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Since the caravan system needed to move large amounts of items has already been discussed cannot see why the devs haven't thought of this as well. But how or even if Artisans can open up stalls has not been officially discussed we can still hope that we have the option to add a shop to any house we may own.
[quote]
<strong><em>Make them needed in the game world</em></strong>
[/quote]
At all levels, not just end level.
[quote]
6. <em>Gathering Professions</em>.
<strong>Everyone should be able to get at least base level ingredients</strong>
[/quote]
"Base"... okay. But as the difficulty goes up the skill needed should increase as well. And then the ability to process this into usable material for crafters should increase as well. Again, Death's Proxy covers this well.
[quote]
7. <em>Make the items and services of a crafter be needed</em>.
[/quote]
Again, at all levels.
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<em>Ideas for professions</em>
[/quote]
See <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cTYzZLnl40">Death's Proxy video #10</a> - He lists those already mentioned and many are on your list as well as others.
All good thoughts and please help explore the speculation that has arisen due to information found on the Devs Blogs, FAQ, and various "What We Know So Far" videos that many people have thoughtfully posted.
v/r,
Morashtak
1. I use must because I truly believe that without it crafting won't have the importance that it needs in games. If there isn't a decay system then items would have to be heavily BoE or BoP which in my opinion is an inferior alternative to item decay. That being said certain special or "legendary" items should be exempt from the decay system since they would require a special kind of achievement to acquire.
2. As far as I can see most of the current "links" to professions are from the "trinity system" implemented currently which I feel isn't very fun sounding. To be just a gatherer or a processor means you'd essentially just be spamming "Create Item" over and over.
3. While I think that is a good method for the system in place currently, again I don't think that's a good system for crafting as a whole. As I said in the post using the system where you can use higher quality parts for each individual part of a weapon, for example, adds a uniqueness to each item or you as a crafter yourself. You can be someone that focuses your items on attack or defense. Or maybe you like adding a frost effect to your items. These are reasons why I'm not a fan of the crafting system at hand.
4. As far as my progression as a crafter section goes I probably should've named it differently. Essentially the point I was trying to get across with that section is that crafting shouldn't be about just sitting in a city and spamming items out constantly to increase your skill. There should be some adventure to it go on dangerous quests to learn new styles or maybe implement some kind of mini games you have to complete to do certain profession quests.
5. That is also a good way to implement that as well.
6. As far as having no BoE or BoP there should be some items, in my opinion, that are required to be BoE or BoP. Say for instance you can get certain items from bosses in a very difficult dungeon that no one else can do, a skilled group of players could farm that instance repeatedly and flood the market with these exceptional items then making some ( obviously impossible for all ) crafted items not as important. The decay system making the worn items harder to repair I consider to be part of a "decay system" to begin with so that eventually the item can't be repaired anymore.
7. This aspect of the caravan system that requires you to take items to different nodes just to process them or craft them, in my opinion again, could use some work. The thought of going to one end of the map to collect an item then hiring a caravan to take the items to another area to be processed then to another player possibly in another node to be made, all the while running the risk of having the items stolen during the transportation, is not an enticing system to me. While I love the caravan system I think this aspect of it needs to be rethought.
8. And yes make them needed at all levels for sure because if you only do one or the other you either get no initial interest in the profession or feeling of it being pointless having done all that work. This section is focusing on making them be needed in events in the game world whereas a later section focuses on making them needed by players themselves.
9. For example, say that there are the following ores in a game: Iron, Steel, Copper, Brass, (Yes I know brass and steel would be made using two differnet ores, but bear with me for example purposes) Titanium, Moon ore, Lava ore. Ok so EVERYONE can gather Iron ore at the start, after collecting a bunch of iron ore and increasing that gathering skill they can collect steel, then copper and so on. BUT You can only collect titanium/Moon ore/ lava ore if you have the correct crafting profession and possibly have completed the right quests to collect them.
10. As I responded in section 8 again make them needed at all levels for sure I agree with you that section is just focusing on make them needed for daily life by the players.
And thank you again for reading my post and responding. I plan to do more in-depth posts about ideas for systems for the game. Also, I plan to do posts reviewing the current systems in place and how to improve or change them (Within the scope of what they're aiming for)
as well as making sure you don't need a crap ton of mats to build some thing e.g in wow to make a high level boots you need 30 + ingots and 80+ skins
it makes no damm sense .
keep up the great line of though i like reading them.
as well as making sure you don’t need a crap ton of mats to build some thing e.g in wow to make a high level boots you need 30 + ingots and 80+ skins
it makes no damm sense .
keep up the great line of though i like reading them.
[/quote]
Thanks for taking the time to read my wall of text lol.
As far as the crafting board thing I think that's a good idea but I believe most of that would be handled through something like "trade chat" instead of on a board. Now a way the board can be useful is if you leave the mats and request in a certain storage and someone can take up the request and is only allowed to make that specific item with the mats maybe that way you can have stuff made while you're afk or offline. As far as the absurd amount of mats to make something I agree. I think for the higher tier stuff should just require higher base level quality items.
If you haven't read up on the devs responses in the discord forum, definitely check it out as they mentioned that materials would have a longer respawn and the environment would react to material gathering, I think their example was if people tried to cut down trees in X forest, the forest might attack players in retaliation. Another thing was that they said was on how players could only carry so much, and so wouldn't be able to transport stacks and stacks of materials, which would hopefully deter people from just gathering materials en mass. Yet, if I was in an area I would gather as much stuff as I can, and if I find some loot I want, I would just destroy or throw away extra mats if I didn't want or need it. Then if the original vein's depleted all we get is a non-gatherer depleting that material, then later throwing it away which leads to actual gatherers suffering. I definitely can see why it would be frustrating to not be able do simple tasks such as mining basic ore or gathering herbs, but if there are limited spawns of mats, the scarcity of everyone gathering would make it a lot harder for people to get into the gathering professions and increase their skill in their profession.
If you haven’t read up on the devs responses in the discord forum, definitely check it out as they mentioned that materials would have a longer respawn and the environment would react to material gathering, I think their example was if people tried to cut down trees in X forest, the forest might attack players in retaliation. Another thing was that they said was on how players could only carry so much, and so wouldn’t be able to transport stacks and stacks of materials, which would hopefully deter people from just gathering materials en mass. Yet, if I was in an area I would gather as much stuff as I can, and if I find some loot I want, I would just destroy or throw away extra mats if I didn’t want or need it. Then if the original vein’s depleted all we get is a non-gatherer depleting that material, then later throwing it away which leads to actual gatherers suffering. I definitely can see why it would be frustrating to not be able do simple tasks such as mining basic ore or gathering herbs, but if there are limited spawns of mats, the scarcity of everyone gathering would make it a lot harder for people to get into the gathering professions and increase their skill in their profession.
[/quote]
I can see your point on this matter. If the materials are going to be fairly limited this system could cause some issues you are right. But one thing that I think would happen is that all players gathering the materials would simply sell the materials on the marketplace that they themselves can't use. Therefore creating ample supplies for the crafters that can use them. Also with the system I proposed people not specialized in that materials craft (so ore for blacksmith/wood for woodworker) can only get certain materials and would have to level up the skill in order to get higher tier materials whereas those specialized can collect all types of said material right off the bat making materials related to their trade more readily available. Also with the system in place to limit the amount of weight you can carry I think would do a sufficient job in deterring people from collecting en mass. I will say though that I do like your idea of making the veins be depleted after a general user mines it but a skilled craftsman can come and get more out of the depleted vein.
Great idea!
"1. There must be an Item Decay System"
If you mean as in sword you find from a bandit is rusty and therefore you need to have it honed by a blacksmith before it's any good to use or that after a while your bow needs to be fitted with a new string, then I agree totally. If you mean a situation like ( in BDO at the moment) you use your rowing boat for fishing and then it wears out so much you just have to buy a new one, then no.. I don't like that. I just feel like it doesen't make sense.
"2. All the professions are linked to one another."
I think this makes sense. In a way then there may be basic ingredients like materials and crafted ingredients like parts you need to create the end-item. Some you may be able to do your self like a woodworker could make wooden wheels to his cart but iron enforced wheels will make a sturdier cart and so if he wants to specialise in cart-making he might want to team up with a blacksmith who can make the iron parts for his better quality wheels. I like it, it doesen't only make crafting more interesting, it also creates group play among crafters and reasons to interact.
"3. Ingredient Quality"
Makes sense. Yep.
"4. Progression as a Crafter."
Hmm. For me personally that sounds cool. However not all players necessarily are going to want to play the "outdoorsy" characters. Some would probably prefer to only craft in their home city and not venture into volcanos to find legendary anvils. Maybe there could be a balance with this. Maybe other crafters could also teach you their skills, like a apprentices. In a small village being a apprentice to a blacksmith might give you crafting quest line and then skills to do basics but in order to do high level stuff you'd need to find the best blacksmith in metropolis and somehow convince him to take you in as a apprentice.
"5 I’m gonna go over the next few features briefly."
Boss Items
Not necessarily even needed, not at least as it is in many games with the idea of the best set being X1 boss-item for your helmet and X2 boss-item for you feet etc.. Rare drops could be other things than armor and weapons and yes I think they could also be parts you could use for your armor. For example weird piece of metal that seems to emanate peace, if you let a blacksmith make a weapon of it it could have better stats against for example undead creatures (if we will have those in this game) or if you make an pommel for you saddle from it it will keep your horse calmer.
Soulbound Items
Don't like this consept. I think things should be tradable.
Profession Stalls/Shops
I think I've seen something about this from the devs.
Make the crafters needed.
I also would like the idea that if a siege on a town is declared, the crafters could also lend a hand in the preparations and even in action to boost the defence of the town.
Gathering Professions.
I don't know about this. If there is a specific gathering profession then having everyone else be able to do some would only be fair if same would apply to other professions as well and swordsmen could hone their own swords when waiting the battle to start for example. If you mean that gathering should not be a specific profession at all but a something everyone can do, then I don't know.. I mean I think the idea of a Ranger+Hunter would be really cool and maybe then taking away that option to boost other professions would kinda be sad.
"7. Make the items and services of a crafter be needed."
I agree on this one.
"Ideas for professions"
I think cattle would probably work better as a farming profession, if want to be spesific it could be it's own thing cattle-farming.
I also think boats and ships should be it's own profession, not with woodworking.
I was also thinking that if there is findings of the old civilization the crafters could maybe have an option to learn from the items. For example Finding a bunch of scrolls in a some sort of vault, then scribe could attempt to translate the papers and then from translated papers a woodworker could learn a way to make a new type of siege engine. These would need to be ofcourse very rare drops.
My thought for today.. now I need some coffee
I do see your point man with everyone being able to gather the easy stuff, but because the devs. have said how to be a master crafter you have to focus on that one profession, it will make it extremely difficult financially for crafters after the basic stuff, and difficult for those who want to level the beginning of gathering. Worse case scenario after launch, a huge influx of basic materials allowing growth, but scarcity of later resources until the gatherers can catch up.
Final point though, IF the devs intend to do what your saying though, they could purposefully doing it. See my point is to make it fair for everyone to gather right? So all can grow. HOWEVER, this game is based on conflict and making it hard for mid game items to be made and privatized mid game resources might be very interesting. Think about it, if you need materials and everyone keeps taking them, who are your going to turn to? Your guild and friends. This conflict could cause guilds to take over areas for their gatherers to grow so they can get good gear for themselves faster AND! This beginning conflict could spark off early fights and gate the way to max level(gate as in create a slow period). Hmmm, Alex! They could purposefully setup the economy to fail at the beginning of the game to force guilds to form and create conflicts of interest, which would tie in with their goal of community. Muahaha, you have convinced me man! Legit, this would hurt people who weren't in a guild, but like or not, the game is shaping up to be community focused conflicts. I guess we will see what they will do lol.
That being said AoC can definitely take some features from this and implement it into the current system.
Also, yes I believe this game is going to center heavily around community and collaboration to get things done. A prime example of this is the caravan system. Which I love.
Another thing from that game is it has a system that is supposed to involve new players gathering 'sweat' to help out new players' wallets and support new player base economy, but they missed one thing, not including it in all recipes.
A high level blacksmith SHOULD rely on a high level miner to get that rare ore he needs, otherwise why would I want to be a high level miner?
You want player interactivity with a semi social element, players that come home from work/school want to get their profession higher so they can make more gold with their skills, not to see a blacksmith wander into their regular mining spot and get that rare ore the miner has been hunting for a week.
Another thing from that game is it has a system that is supposed to involve new players gathering ‘sweat’ to help out new players’ wallets and support new player base economy, but they missed one thing, not including it in all recipes.
A high level blacksmith SHOULD rely on a high level miner to get that rare ore he needs, otherwise why would I want to be a high level miner?
You want player interactivity with a semi social element, players that come home from work/school want to get their profession higher so they can make more gold with their skills, not to see a blacksmith wander into their regular mining spot and get that rare ore the miner has been hunting for a week.
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Obviously the item decay system would have to be done in a way that the items don't decay rapidly making it a constant struggle to sell items before they can sell.
As far as your comment about the blacksmith relying on miner thing I disagree. With the system I proposed there wouldn't be a need to rely on others to supply your own base materials just odd and end things that another crafter would have to make themselves therefore promoting a social element that isn't semi at all. You made a comment about people coming home from school/work to raise their profession. This system would also benefit those people with limited timeframes to play in instead of having to find a high level miner in order to even GET STARTED with making what you want to craft you can go get the materials yourself. And why can't a blacksmith go and mine some ore? It's a core essential to his profession. And speaking from a lore aspect, you don't need to be a profession to swing a pick at some rock a blacksmith which would be knowledgeable about ores and mining because it's related to his field should be able to go collect the materials he needs himself.
Anyone can start crafting, and yes, everyone should be able to gather base materials.
But i'm talking about a game with decay and you need an ultra rare ore to make a sword that has NO decay, and the only person that can get that is a high level miner. (for example)
If your blacksmith wants to level his mining profession to be able to farm it himself, be my guest but I don't want to become a blacksmith JUST so I can go and mine for high end materials.
Your statements are leaning towards making the mining profession null and void. Every profession needs to have some goal, so tell me;
What is a high level miners goal if not to supply rare items with their hard earned skills?
Everyone should be able to collect any level resources from any zone at any time. Some resources are going to be hard to collect, protected and hoarded by powerful monsters. Not something you would send the blacksmith to get :)
This allows players to collect the materials as they adventure and hire a crafter to make something with it.
Just because you collect materials it should not be assumed that you can now somehow magically know how to make something with it. Only the crafters who have invested effort can make something with that material.
To get players interested though, every character should be able to make the basic items without any effort. Essentially level one in the crafting skills; let's say blacksmithing; where you can make simple chest, boots, sword etc. Especially useful to get your new character started adventuring.
I am a believer that crafting has to be a separate set of skills to that of combat, if everyone can make items it lowers the value of crafting immensely. I have seen it happen in many games where everyone can craft and fight and the crafting part of the game dies and becomes useless.