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I'm new... And here are my concerns!
So I love some concepts of the game. But I have 4 issues/concerns with it. And forgive me as my friend only showed me this game a few days ago. So I might just be misunderstanding how somethings even work.
Questing:
I am kind of worried about the questing. I feel it could be good or bad. I would hate to go out on a quest and finish. Only to go back to turn it in, but can't. Finding the node I got the quest from completely destroyed, or taken over by a different guild.
I also feel like Quest may be hard to come by at the start of the game. How do you even start a nodes development and stuff. Seems to me the game will start out as a big free for all on the server go live day.
Open world PVPing:
Open world PVP has never really appealed to me. To me it has always felt like a way to grief people. No rewards/punishments given. Though it looks like they will have a bounty system. How will this work for low level people? Getting camped per say by a higher level player? It seems to me it will only benefit the griefer, and those who hunt them.
Online vs Offline:
I have work. I have kids. When I play games I don't always get to play as much as I like. Lets say me and my friends spend weeks building up a node. Only to find it destroyed or taken over by someone else while we are offline. Me and my friends usually make our own small guilds/clans. And work hard to beat content together. And sense larger guilds will be better for sieging. How is a small guild suppose to have any chance in this game? I just don't see how this will ever be favorable for the smaller guilds.
Even if they add notifications that my home is getting destroyed. It's not like I can leave work to go, and try and save it.
Are there any sort of offline defenses I can build? That could actually hold up to a strong guild? Or am I just doomed before I even start?
Trading:
Seems to be localized. Or in other words based on a cluster of nodes. And that the more varied a cluster of nodes are the more sought out they will probable be. Meaning the stronger alliances will be way more profitable than weaker ones. I don't mind this too much. I only hope there are more than 6 node types to help offset 4 guilds lucky placements. And them becoming an alliance together. So they won't be such a huge factor in how the game works. Meaning trades will be required from much further away places too.
Questing:
I am kind of worried about the questing. I feel it could be good or bad. I would hate to go out on a quest and finish. Only to go back to turn it in, but can't. Finding the node I got the quest from completely destroyed, or taken over by a different guild.
I also feel like Quest may be hard to come by at the start of the game. How do you even start a nodes development and stuff. Seems to me the game will start out as a big free for all on the server go live day.
Open world PVPing:
Open world PVP has never really appealed to me. To me it has always felt like a way to grief people. No rewards/punishments given. Though it looks like they will have a bounty system. How will this work for low level people? Getting camped per say by a higher level player? It seems to me it will only benefit the griefer, and those who hunt them.
Online vs Offline:
I have work. I have kids. When I play games I don't always get to play as much as I like. Lets say me and my friends spend weeks building up a node. Only to find it destroyed or taken over by someone else while we are offline. Me and my friends usually make our own small guilds/clans. And work hard to beat content together. And sense larger guilds will be better for sieging. How is a small guild suppose to have any chance in this game? I just don't see how this will ever be favorable for the smaller guilds.
Even if they add notifications that my home is getting destroyed. It's not like I can leave work to go, and try and save it.
Are there any sort of offline defenses I can build? That could actually hold up to a strong guild? Or am I just doomed before I even start?
Trading:
Seems to be localized. Or in other words based on a cluster of nodes. And that the more varied a cluster of nodes are the more sought out they will probable be. Meaning the stronger alliances will be way more profitable than weaker ones. I don't mind this too much. I only hope there are more than 6 node types to help offset 4 guilds lucky placements. And them becoming an alliance together. So they won't be such a huge factor in how the game works. Meaning trades will be required from much further away places too.
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There are many sources that would answer your questions.
Try starting here:
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
Many videos and interviews here: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Recent_media
You will also find many vidoes if you search Youtube.
Questing: There are quest givers in the 5 starting areas to get you going, those initially will be the only quests available. As nodes develop quickly in the early stages you won't run out of things to do if questing is your thing. They also are not doing the See Farmer Bob, gather 5 ears of corn, talk to Farmer Bob again. Quests can appear as "tasks" just by entering an area dynamically. If there is a quest giver and for whatever reason the node was deleveled or leveled to the next stage, there will be an npc for turn in if it was that type of quest. Node development is automatic, just by players questing, pvping, killing mobs, and crafting it gains exp. There is no guild control of nodes. A guild may have a heavy presence in one, but they do not "control" a node. And yes, come day one there will be a bit of a free for all aspect as people run to the spots they want to develop and race others to "feed" their node over others. With more than 100 nodes overland, more in the Underrealm, there will be plenty of choice and options.
Open World Pvp: There is a robust system to deter griefing and ganking. I suggest you look up corruption and how it interacts with the pvp systems in game per flagging states and others. The worry of wandering around and getting owned by random higher levels has been addressed and will be a rare thing if they implement their plans as stated.
Offline/Online: Nodes have a declaration period before a siege can commence. It is not lets just burn this town down for shits and giggles. A level 3 node has a 2 day declaration period before the actual siege takes place. A level 4 a 3 day, and so on. After a siege there is a cooldown of 10X the declaration period before the node can be sieged again. So in the case of the lowest able to be sieged as a level 3, there would be a 20 day cooldown before it would come under attack again. The siege windows are 2 hours currently, and in the case of a successful siege by the attackers a further 2 hour window where assets like freeholds can be attacked and destroyed in the node. The preparation and cost to declare a siege requires input from master crafters to make the siege banner and the cost is said to be equivalent in assets to what it took to level the node. So the worry that people are going to spend huge amounts of resources and time sink for "the lolz" isn't an issue. Sieges will be large, group efforts with a purpose and reason behind them. So while you may come back to your freehold destroyed if you say were off for a week or two, it would have been packed up and you could place it again somewhere else in the world. The template is saved and the cost of rebuilding is meant to be minimal in the case of freeholds. There will be options for email and other notifications that you can set in game if a siege did happen to be declared on your home node.
Trade: Yes trade is localized. Resources move and shift over time. Again, there is a pvp castle mechanic for guilds to utilize that gives them control of small, certain areas. They do not control nodes. There is however pvp potential when transporting large amounts of goods and resources between nodes for trade. These are npc and player run. Check out caravans for more on this.
I hope this gave you some information you were looking for. Like any new game in development there is a lot that first glance may concern you. Please realize this one is being built by mmo gamers for mmo gamers. All the stuff that is bad in others they are trying to minimize or eliminate, and are trying to take the best from other games. Happy hunting!
I am kind of worried about the questing. I feel it could be good or bad. I would hate to go out on a quest and finish. Only to go back to turn it in, but can't. Finding the node I got the quest from completely destroyed, or taken over by a different guild.
I also feel like Quest may be hard to come by at the start of the game. How do you even start a nodes development and stuff. Seems to me the game will start out as a big free for all on the server go live day.
- Node only get destroyed after being sieged. Its not like they will be getting blown up 24/7.
- There will be 4 Divine Gates that are starter areas and then of course the Tulnar will start somewhere.
- Yes, the game will feel like a free for all. Its not a themepark, its a Themebox where the characters help steer the game.
Open world PVPing:Open world PVP has never really appealed to me. To me it has always felt like a way to grief people. No rewards/punishments given. Though it looks like they will have a bounty system. How will this work for low level people? Getting camped per say by a higher level player? It seems to me it will only benefit the griefer, and those who hunt them.
Online vs Offline:
I have work. I have kids. When I play games I don't always get to play as much as I like. Lets say me and my friends spend weeks building up a node. Only to find it destroyed or taken over by someone else while we are offline. Me and my friends usually make our own small guilds/clans. And work hard to beat content together. And sense larger guilds will be better for sieging. How is a small guild suppose to have any chance in this game? I just don't see how this will ever be favorable for the smaller guilds.
Even if they add notifications that my home is getting destroyed. It's not like I can leave work to go, and try and save it.
Are there any sort of offline defenses I can build? That could actually hold up to a strong guild? Or am I just doomed before I even start?
- Sieges only occur during "Prime time" for a server.
- Sieges are declared in advance
- Small guilds get bonuses instead of size increases
Trading:Seems to be localized. Or in other words based on a cluster of nodes. And that the more varied a cluster of nodes are the more sought out they will probable be. Meaning the stronger alliances will be way more profitable than weaker ones. I don't mind this too much. I only hope there are more than 6 node types to help offset 4 guilds lucky placements. And them becoming an alliance together. So they won't be such a huge factor in how the game works. Meaning trades will be required from much further away places too.
Seems like you have done a lot of cursory research but not a lot of digging into stuff.
If you have specific questions feel free to ask. If you follow that youtube link I gave you for corruption it will take you to my channel and I've done break down videos of Nodes, PvP, the Artisan System, and Housing.
How does one make sure one's AOE skill aren't triggering the PVP flag? I feel like accidental attacks are going to be the norm. As I haven't to see anything, but the word attack used. I also feel people can watch you using said AOE skills, and time it so you initiate the fight.
I still don't think the PVP system is all that great. If I get attacked the only way to make sure people hunt them down is to not attack back? So I just got to sit there, and take it? Take an XP loss. Lose some resources I farmed. etc... I feel I should always be allowed to defend myself with no penalties. I don't want to be combatant simply for defending myself. That seems like it will just open me up for more attacks.
Also I have to see anything talk about a way to clear a combatant flag. So one accidental attack and your a combatant forever? I am guessing there is a way to clear it. But it only ever talks about clearing the corruption flag.
Like I said the PVP system only looks fun for the griefer after some free loot. And the bounty hunters looking to stop them for free gear.
In my mind. Griefers will go kill lower level people once they have an alt set of gear they don't mind loosing. And they stash there main gear in there house or something. Than go grief for some free resources until they loose all there corruption. And than swap gear back. I just don't see the risk stopping people from doing it.
Anyways, I was interested in the game. But having just found out about extra death penalties such as XP loss. And because world PVP seems unavoidable I think I will just skip out on this game. Thanks for the help though.
In response to the "What is to stop someone from running through my aoe and flagging me?" concern, that has already been addressed. To initiate the flagging process you have to "force flag" on someone which means targeting them with a single target ability. Flagging states are not permanent. Everyone is green by default, and will after certain conditions are met revert back to that. "Purple" individuals will go back to green after leaving a pvp zone around a caravan for example, and "Red" individuals will go back to green once their corruption is cleared through death or quest mechanic.
Sadly the node system and many of the core mechanics that will make Ashes unique cannot be achieved with a PVE only system, so if you want to hang out here, PVP is part of the deal.
And the fact it looks like you are punished harder for not fighting back. Ya I don't think this game is for me. Plus I just realized they are adding death penalties on top of it all. While the concept of the overall game sounds great. I really don't want to deal with those two things. So much so I think I will just pass on the entire game itself.
A shame really.
While they talk about ways to clear corruption. There isn't any talk that I see about clearing a combatant flag. I assume there is a way. It also only uses the word attack... Does that mean my AOE skills may unintentionally mark me as a combatant?
Also sense you only loose gear on you. A griefer can just swap out his high end gear while he is board, and go loot people until he is hunted enough to clear his corruption flag. I just don't see how the penalties will stop that style of game play. And the fact that a none-combatant is punished more than a combatant. Well seems like the game will encourage it.
That and the added death penalties. Which I feel are a hard-core type mechanic. And they all scream that this isn't a game I am going to like. I mean good luck to the rest of you out there. But thiefing stuff from others seems to be the core concept of the game. Way more so than I would like.
And sense PVP missions seem like they will be a thing. Like protect this caravan. Meaning if PVP does occur someone is loosing XP. Not really my thing. I just don't understand why developers can't see dying in itself isn't punishment enough. I guess lets all add insult to injury instead.
FYI: this forum seems to be buggy as crap I had to re-post this comment like 50 times before it stayed. Looks like it count's each edit as a potential spammer, and just deletes it. Pretty lame if you ask me. Sorry if I sound a bit angry. I was getting frustrated trying to get this post to stay. And having to re-type it a few times didn't help.
I find that hard to believe. But I guess I could be in the minority. Do you have any proof to this claim, or are you just throwing out your opinion as fact?
You don't have to take my word for it, go ahead and jump onto the Ashes of Creation discord and talk the people there.
You aren't going to find people against open world PvP. What you will find is people who are against some specific corruption mechanics.
You will find some people who want corruption to go away entirely
You will find some people who want to fix some perceived problems with corruption
But you won't find many people who are against the Open World Combat.
Since there are, at last count, 7 "meaningful" PvP activities, you'll find most people taking part in those.
There will be some people who flag up just to flag up...but then some men just want to watch the world burn.
I can't really fathom any player who doesn't want to take part in the open world PVP. To actually like being punished for it more heavily than those who fight back. It blows my mind that a non-combatant has a heavier death penalty than a combatant does. If this stays a thing. I don't see most casual players hanging around.
I guess that's fine if that is what the game wants. But it won't be as big of a MMO with that kind of tactics. It will be more for people who like hard core PVP mechanics, and thus making the corruption system a complete eye sore to them.
I am guessing most casual players who see the PVP mechanic, and understand it. Have already written off the game. So that would be why i believe you don't see many people even talking about the PVP itself. At least that's what I think.
For example no one complained about D3 repairs being a problem. Well not before the game released. And casual players were dying left and right. And couldn't even keep their gear from not be broken. But because of other problems with the game. And the top % of players running as far as they could before dying. So they could fight bosses. Blizzard increased the cost even more. And was part of a huge reason many players left the game in it's early stages. And this was all way before the AH even came out in D3.
Adding extra penalties to those who don't want to PVP. Well it probable already scared them away from the game. So I wouldn't make statements like that if I was you.
They love the fact that they can choose to not fight back and stick the ganker with corruption. The ganker than gets x3-x4 the death penalty, and the deeper they go into corruption it becomes possible to drop gear with a higher and higher rate.
As far as "I feel you are basing your opinion on a top % of players. That are willing to play beta's, and alpha's in the first place." If people won't want to be part of the development of a game and provide feedback while the game is in development, they can suck it up and deal with what is in the final version.
There are 25k+ people on the Discord, roughly 10k people who have paid to be in Alpha 1, and 2.5k people who have been hands on with Alpha 0.
I'm going to call it now. That it will be even worse than wow's forums. And the forums will have someone raging about the death penalty from getting ganked daily. Just because someone didn't fully understand the PVP system before buying/getting into the game.
And there will be plenty of people trying to silence them. I really don't see this revolutionizing the genre. While it has some good concepts. And great if they can execute on them properly. But the whole open world PVP thing will just come back to bite them in the butt. And will be a huge source of debate on the forums after the game releases.
And will lead to a lot of arguments.
So you upset that a mechanic exists to help deter ganking and encourage open world PvP in a sandbox game?
I think basically you are looking for a pure PvE game, which Pantheon would be the game your looking for.
Its ok that everyone won't enjoy Ashes, Steven isn't looking to build a game for everyone.
So ... as someone who literally jotted-down nearly every LiveStream Question
( image below | Bottom-Left Corner )
... I know the literal answer from the Devs ... but anything & everything is subject to change. However, while most of whats mention is already cemented, the few things that are not cemented requires players to play it & test it out ( mostly )
And there's alot of answers to those questions.
@AngryFan It is true that most all here are pretty strong fans of the system as is and the default reaction (for a few) is to pass on the message that "The Game Isn't For You". What you have here is that you get much flak for arguing against the systems or for voicing a strong opinion that you disagree with any of them.
That is a shame because it tries to kill the discussion and the opinion and any ideas, which is what forums are mostly for. These forums would be/will be pretty dead if all anyone ever posts is about how much they LOVE everything posted that is kosher "Ashes of Creation as Planned".
Instead I would encourage you to keep in mind that much is still up for change and/or adjustment no matter what anyone says. Some things I believe WILL NOT BE CHANGING like OWPVP. Some I think MIGHT CHANGE like being more punished for NOT FIGHTING BACK in random OWPVP> Wait and see what happens! Don't take what some here want you to just accept as final and keep questioning,
I see all kinds of good reasons for OWPVP. I have yet to see a single good reason that the harsher penalties, for losing, have to be MORE SEVERE if you do not fight back when attacked outside of meaningful PVP. I am still waiting to read why that single twist is very important.
So, I for one, am not really for that.
okay sooo .. i didn't see what @UnknownSystemError said ...
@AngryFan
Ashes of Creation needs both PvP Players & PvE Players ( this includes RPers too )
Because of Ashes of Creation is a PvX MMORPG ... not solely PvE and not solely PvP
- So despite what it may seem ... PvPers needs PvEers to play
- same goes vice-versa
In a nutshell, you are indeed correct - before the Nodes become established, the gameplay will be similar to a SandBox Open-World PvP MMORPG. But after node(s) gains some establishment ... it will have ThemePark-like CharacteristicsAgain, they're - quite literally - MANY answers regarding to your initial post that started this thread. And despite the bad impression you got from the game ...I will be posting every Q&A Intrepid has answered ... that relates to your questions
... Only not now because I'm studying > .<
But I will post this one answer about this MMORPG
Good valid point...but not unsolvable. It requires multiple self contained quest lines that requires the right condition to switch from passive to active status. When conditions are right, the passive quests can be pushed into the active stack again. Especially if each quest is modular and each module does not necessarily require a whole combination of factors to be true. In that case....pieces of each questline...will pop in and out of a progressable state..as and when possible.
They have three types of questing. So maybe 1/3rd of those will be limited to begin with, but the rest not. The remainder will come with progression.
Open World PvP.
Yep....normally a PvP servers sole design goal it to be a murderbox. Who knew
Online vs Offline.
The nodes are not run by guilds. They are run by citizens and populated by citizenship. Even if you and your small guild buddies are offline, the 100+ other citizens that make up the node will probably not be. Regardless, you can hire Mercenaries if you want stuff protected because you are unavailable or incapable. Possibly NPC guards & you will receive ample notice, as there must be a declaration period and a cost involved to start a siege. Your homes assets are also saved if destroyed and not lost.
Nodes will only degrade one level at a time as far as I know. You cant go from stage 6 to stage 1 in one event.
Trading.
Would a stronger alliance not expect to be ...well...stronger ? Anyway, what drives relevance is having something that someone else wants/needs. Supply & Demand. Some resources may be biome specific but spawn randomly in any of that biomes nodes and remain there until exhausted. Specific tools/clothing/weapons/armour etc. may require very specific combinations of materials that might have to be sourced from all over Verra. That will require multiple (upto 4 way) alliances..to build global supply chains. And even then, the users of those items may also have 'tuned' unique requirements that suit their build, that require odd resources from uncommon places. Those in turn require tuned crafters that can be a low tier generalist or a high tier specialist of very specific components. Higher tier equipment is expected to require exceptionally rare components.