tarros wrote: » I have a crazy idea why not take away the skill from loot? Now now hear me out. The majority of MMOs these days are loot based meaning that leveling only exists to allow for better armor. Better gear means the game becomes easier. Which is okay and makes sense because it is a fundamental to the RPG element of any game. However this creates an issue of there being an end because once you get that epic gear what is there left to do? I am here to suggest that the ultimate prize should be the kill itself with no loot drop. Being the only person or group to kill a mob that might never be seen again. On top of taking away loot it forces players to actually be skilled. Minding their placement, mana usage, what skills are being used and when they are being used, etc... Developers should not assist players in the sense of skill as I find it a form of making the game easy. The only time I ever believe a developer should intervene is if the economy is going in a very very bad direction.
GrimHarlequin wrote: » I would like to see instanced content have some sort of story mode where you don't really get gear rewards outside of very basic and common stuff, but where more casual players could still say they've seen the content and seen the quest/story chain for everything even if it involves easier or toned down mechanics, but you shouldn't be rewarded for something like that outside of "Yeah I got to see the end of X quest chain or story."
arzosah wrote: » A seemingly unkillable boss especially if it's a world boss can exist as a goal for players to strive for, every player wanting to be part of the group to finally take down this big baddie that has been crushing every group that attempts it.
wanderingmist wrote: » arzosah wrote: » A seemingly unkillable boss especially if it's a world boss can exist as a goal for players to strive for, every player wanting to be part of the group to finally take down this big baddie that has been crushing every group that attempts it. This reminds me of the "unkillable" crystal dragon kerafrym in everquest. The players were so determined to kill it that they brought 3 mega guilds together (nearly 200 players) to slay the dragon.
Ferryman wrote: » wanderingmist wrote: » arzosah wrote: » A seemingly unkillable boss especially if it's a world boss can exist as a goal for players to strive for, every player wanting to be part of the group to finally take down this big baddie that has been crushing every group that attempts it. This reminds me of the "unkillable" crystal dragon kerafrym in everquest. The players were so determined to kill it that they brought 3 mega guilds together (nearly 200 players) to slay the dragon. This made me thought, that in op, where you thinking this matter from instanced or open world point of view or more like generally? Because in open world it will be easier to handle with bosses just with raising numbers of players involved, unless there is some kind of mechanics which prevents outnumbering, but I can not see this would everytime be the case.
LieutenantToast wrote: » GrimHarlequin wrote: » I would like to see instanced content have some sort of story mode where you don't really get gear rewards outside of very basic and common stuff, but where more casual players could still say they've seen the content and seen the quest/story chain for everything even if it involves easier or toned down mechanics, but you shouldn't be rewarded for something like that outside of "Yeah I got to see the end of X quest chain or story." This is an interesting "best of both worlds" approach - leave the content challenging for those who are willing and able (as I know many of you will be ), but have an option for those who are looking for more of the story/lore elements!
wanderingmist wrote: » LieutenantToast wrote: » GrimHarlequin wrote: » I would like to see instanced content have some sort of story mode where you don't really get gear rewards outside of very basic and common stuff, but where more casual players could still say they've seen the content and seen the quest/story chain for everything even if it involves easier or toned down mechanics, but you shouldn't be rewarded for something like that outside of "Yeah I got to see the end of X quest chain or story." This is an interesting "best of both worlds" approach - leave the content challenging for those who are willing and able (as I know many of you will be ), but have an option for those who are looking for more of the story/lore elements! Eh, WoW have tried to do this on a number of occasions with mixed results. One of the reasons why the LFR system was introduced was because players complained that they were missing out on the story that was locked behind "difficult" raid content. They argued that they had just as much right to see all the lore and story content, regardless of their skill level.
Damokles wrote: » wanderingmist wrote: » LieutenantToast wrote: » GrimHarlequin wrote: » I would like to see instanced content have some sort of story mode where you don't really get gear rewards outside of very basic and common stuff, but where more casual players could still say they've seen the content and seen the quest/story chain for everything even if it involves easier or toned down mechanics, but you shouldn't be rewarded for something like that outside of "Yeah I got to see the end of X quest chain or story." This is an interesting "best of both worlds" approach - leave the content challenging for those who are willing and able (as I know many of you will be ), but have an option for those who are looking for more of the story/lore elements! Eh, WoW have tried to do this on a number of occasions with mixed results. One of the reasons why the LFR system was introduced was because players complained that they were missing out on the story that was locked behind "difficult" raid content. They argued that they had just as much right to see all the lore and story content, regardless of their skill level. They could make it that the "story mode" is only accessible after a number of groups/teams already cleared the raid/dungeon.
wanderingmist wrote: » Ferryman wrote: » wanderingmist wrote: » arzosah wrote: » A seemingly unkillable boss especially if it's a world boss can exist as a goal for players to strive for, every player wanting to be part of the group to finally take down this big baddie that has been crushing every group that attempts it. This reminds me of the "unkillable" crystal dragon kerafrym in everquest. The players were so determined to kill it that they brought 3 mega guilds together (nearly 200 players) to slay the dragon. This made me thought, that in op, where you thinking this matter from instanced or open world point of view or more like generally? Because in open world it will be easier to handle with bosses just with raising numbers of players involved, unless there is some kind of mechanics which prevents outnumbering, but I can not see this would everytime be the case. The method of hand-holding might well change depending on the content that is being focused on, but the intent is the same. And as sad as it is, I hate to admit that from a business standpoint, hand-holding and artificially helping the players makes sense. When faced with a seemingly insurmountable challenge, players are more likely to quit than try to overcome the challenge the way it was originally intended.
Ferryman wrote: » wanderingmist wrote: » Ferryman wrote: » wanderingmist wrote: » arzosah wrote: » A seemingly unkillable boss especially if it's a world boss can exist as a goal for players to strive for, every player wanting to be part of the group to finally take down this big baddie that has been crushing every group that attempts it. This reminds me of the "unkillable" crystal dragon kerafrym in everquest. The players were so determined to kill it that they brought 3 mega guilds together (nearly 200 players) to slay the dragon. This made me thought, that in op, where you thinking this matter from instanced or open world point of view or more like generally? Because in open world it will be easier to handle with bosses just with raising numbers of players involved, unless there is some kind of mechanics which prevents outnumbering, but I can not see this would everytime be the case. The method of hand-holding might well change depending on the content that is being focused on, but the intent is the same. And as sad as it is, I hate to admit that from a business standpoint, hand-holding and artificially helping the players makes sense. When faced with a seemingly insurmountable challenge, players are more likely to quit than try to overcome the challenge the way it was originally intended. I can easily agree with that business point of view and I think your concern here is valid. If the raids are facerolls, that is not good either and people who focus on raiding will run out of content pretty fast. Same goes with extremely hard content as well and it can push people away to do something more satisfying. So I guess devs needs to aim somewhere between. I hope they won't hand hold too much and at the start not at all. They should give players some time to figure out the problem and later nerf the content if it turns to be too hard. That is the best solution imo. However, should all raids to be designed to clear by everyone? Straight away I think not, but prehaps later..
Lyiat wrote: » Ferryman wrote: » wanderingmist wrote: » Ferryman wrote: » wanderingmist wrote: » arzosah wrote: » A seemingly unkillable boss especially if it's a world boss can exist as a goal for players to strive for, every player wanting to be part of the group to finally take down this big baddie that has been crushing every group that attempts it. This reminds me of the "unkillable" crystal dragon kerafrym in everquest. The players were so determined to kill it that they brought 3 mega guilds together (nearly 200 players) to slay the dragon. This made me thought, that in op, where you thinking this matter from instanced or open world point of view or more like generally? Because in open world it will be easier to handle with bosses just with raising numbers of players involved, unless there is some kind of mechanics which prevents outnumbering, but I can not see this would everytime be the case. The method of hand-holding might well change depending on the content that is being focused on, but the intent is the same. And as sad as it is, I hate to admit that from a business standpoint, hand-holding and artificially helping the players makes sense. When faced with a seemingly insurmountable challenge, players are more likely to quit than try to overcome the challenge the way it was originally intended. I can easily agree with that business point of view and I think your concern here is valid. If the raids are facerolls, that is not good either and people who focus on raiding will run out of content pretty fast. Same goes with extremely hard content as well and it can push people away to do something more satisfying. So I guess devs needs to aim somewhere between. I hope they won't hand hold too much and at the start not at all. They should give players some time to figure out the problem and later nerf the content if it turns to be too hard. That is the best solution imo. However, should all raids to be designed to clear by everyone? Straight away I think not, but prehaps later.. Steven has gone on record to say that he desires some of the higher end raid-content to only have clear percents in the single digits.
Nagash wrote: » Lyiat wrote: » Ferryman wrote: » wanderingmist wrote: » Ferryman wrote: » wanderingmist wrote: » arzosah wrote: » A seemingly unkillable boss especially if it's a world boss can exist as a goal for players to strive for, every player wanting to be part of the group to finally take down this big baddie that has been crushing every group that attempts it. This reminds me of the "unkillable" crystal dragon kerafrym in everquest. The players were so determined to kill it that they brought 3 mega guilds together (nearly 200 players) to slay the dragon. This made me thought, that in op, where you thinking this matter from instanced or open world point of view or more like generally? Because in open world it will be easier to handle with bosses just with raising numbers of players involved, unless there is some kind of mechanics which prevents outnumbering, but I can not see this would everytime be the case. The method of hand-holding might well change depending on the content that is being focused on, but the intent is the same. And as sad as it is, I hate to admit that from a business standpoint, hand-holding and artificially helping the players makes sense. When faced with a seemingly insurmountable challenge, players are more likely to quit than try to overcome the challenge the way it was originally intended. I can easily agree with that business point of view and I think your concern here is valid. If the raids are facerolls, that is not good either and people who focus on raiding will run out of content pretty fast. Same goes with extremely hard content as well and it can push people away to do something more satisfying. So I guess devs needs to aim somewhere between. I hope they won't hand hold too much and at the start not at all. They should give players some time to figure out the problem and later nerf the content if it turns to be too hard. That is the best solution imo. However, should all raids to be designed to clear by everyone? Straight away I think not, but prehaps later.. Steven has gone on record to say that he desires some of the higher end raid-content to only have clear percents in the single digits. he also said he thought arch ages raid were hard
Lyiat wrote: » Nagash wrote: » Lyiat wrote: » Ferryman wrote: » wanderingmist wrote: » Ferryman wrote: » wanderingmist wrote: » arzosah wrote: » A seemingly unkillable boss especially if it's a world boss can exist as a goal for players to strive for, every player wanting to be part of the group to finally take down this big baddie that has been crushing every group that attempts it. This reminds me of the "unkillable" crystal dragon kerafrym in everquest. The players were so determined to kill it that they brought 3 mega guilds together (nearly 200 players) to slay the dragon. This made me thought, that in op, where you thinking this matter from instanced or open world point of view or more like generally? Because in open world it will be easier to handle with bosses just with raising numbers of players involved, unless there is some kind of mechanics which prevents outnumbering, but I can not see this would everytime be the case. The method of hand-holding might well change depending on the content that is being focused on, but the intent is the same. And as sad as it is, I hate to admit that from a business standpoint, hand-holding and artificially helping the players makes sense. When faced with a seemingly insurmountable challenge, players are more likely to quit than try to overcome the challenge the way it was originally intended. I can easily agree with that business point of view and I think your concern here is valid. If the raids are facerolls, that is not good either and people who focus on raiding will run out of content pretty fast. Same goes with extremely hard content as well and it can push people away to do something more satisfying. So I guess devs needs to aim somewhere between. I hope they won't hand hold too much and at the start not at all. They should give players some time to figure out the problem and later nerf the content if it turns to be too hard. That is the best solution imo. However, should all raids to be designed to clear by everyone? Straight away I think not, but prehaps later.. Steven has gone on record to say that he desires some of the higher end raid-content to only have clear percents in the single digits. he also said he thought arch ages raid were hard Did you even try Serpentus? My guild never managed to even get that on grind.
