Dev Discussion #5 - Content Types

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Comments

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  • I love both solo and group content. If my mates are also interested in the games we play, we'll play as a group, and then if they go offline, I'll go and do solo stuff like grind some mobs, or do some other sort of solo gameplay, and I love it. In a new MMORPG, I love exploring the world on my own. Unfortunately, there has yet to be an actual MMORPG that has managed to create a really interesting world for me. I'd love the idea of months or years into the game, there are secret areas that no one has discovered yet, and they hold some sort of special area that could be used, for example, a really good mob grinding location or something.
  • I am an immersion guy, so prefer organic relationships and grouping to happen in game (on the fly).
    Love solo and pugging. Especially when seeing others in trouble or needing aid of some kind.
    Dont care if thats dungeons, raids or open PvP warfare.
    Dont care if I am exploring one corner of Verra to the other.
    Dont care if I am tracking someone or something,
    Dont care if I am joining in extreme sillyness in the tavern.
    Dont care if I am researching or creating new items in the world.
    Dont care if I am on a temporary quest with a war party.
    Not so much someone who would sit behind a market stall all day though, although it would bug me if the economy was wrecked.
    Hero, villain.
    Samaritan, thief.
    Sentinel, assassin.
    Adventurer, settler.
    Craftsman, explorer
    Its having the option to be what you want and do the activities associated with those roles, that keeps me smiling and engrossed.
    Probably easier to ask, what content types I dont like.
  • I want to see a fair mix of solo and group content, not too heavy on either side. give people a perfect balance to do what they want and achieve a lot when their friends are afk!
  • So content. I've had so many ideas for content that I hope AoC brings to the MMO scene. I guess I need to break it down into PvE and PvP to systematically get my ideas down. Apologies for the wall of text as I look back on this.

    PvE
    Instanced PvE
    I'm not really a huge fan of instanced PvE because as another post mentioned, small group instanced PvE tends to get way too linear for me and becomes boring extremely fast. Large group raids, however, I do find enjoyable as long as they too, are not linear in fashion. I think if the instanced PvE were to scale with individual parties/groups to have more variation in attack patterns so that it's less predictable and more challenging, then that could be quite enjoyable. The other issue I find with instanced PvE is that it makes the area feel a bit empty, and the only area to meet people is outside of the dungeon. That brings me to my next section.

    Open World PvE
    All the time in current MMOs, open world PvE is just simply mob grind, and it's boring and you just run around killing things. One of the things that really interested me was an old video of AoC where it showed the mobs in the open world actually having some form of attack rotation, not just blindly swinging and attacking players. So in that way, that's what I hope for content in the open world. Mobs that don't just blindly walk and swing at players, something that has attacks that can deal damage and really make the players feel like this is an intense battle. I hate to do this, but to bring in another MMO, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen. The concept they have where different parties, whether high level or low level, can be in the same area killing mobs, really provides a living, breathing atmosphere to give the game population a good social feeling. Fights and areas that feel like they have meaning, and I really have to work for it. Not giving players the ability to create parties through some tool is a way that could really give parties meaning.

    PvP
    Instanced PvP
    I'm a big fan of PvP in MMOs. I really like BnS and BDO style PvP. Basically a fighting game with smooth combat and the ability to use skills. Arena and Battlegrounds are a good favorite of mine, and personally, I hate the ability of making a game P2W (I know AoC won't be), but then making the end-game gear super far to ruin the entry level for people to get into PvP (current state of BnS). Some form of competitive instanced PvP that would not make it have a ridiculous barrier to entry so that people that enjoy PvE can try out PvP and get into that.

    Open World PvP
    So I know about the whole punishment system that we have, but I'd love to have a more in-depth version of open world PvP where players can play as assassins also. I'd love to have something to be able to hide your name or something where your appearance could be what's used to pick you out of a crowd. Also safe zones are good, but if you can fight within the town, then that'd really bring a realism and immersive feel to AoC. All in all, I just love PvP and like fighting against other players where I can have fun with friends, but also express a competitive edge where I feel like I was better and outplayed an enemy.

    One thing that I also enjoyed in certain anime I've seen, and possibly other games, but to have big world bosses that are really challenging that involve large raids to defeat, but in the open world. This incorporates both large scale, challenging open world PvE content, as well as large scale PvP battle between guilds. To me, that would incorporate a good social standing between all the members of a guild so that everyone feels victorious once they win.

    Social
    So another section I thought of, but one that I think would really make the big difference for keeping AoC alive and making it have a worthwhile feeling to keep playing. When playing my other MMOs, yea everyone enjoys solo content, but if there was an actual reason to party up with some friends, and the party actually felt rewarding then I'd love to have some fun with people. Get a group together randomly and conquer some things and then enjoy playing with each other. One of the things I don't like about some MMOs is that when you disconnect, it auto-kicks you from party. This gives the feeling of "who cares about the member, just find a new one" and it doesn't give meaning to the party social aspect. This whole part of having the game include a strong social aspect is what I think made games like PSO2 and WoW popular, and it's the one reason I'm also keeping an eye on WoW: Classic.

    TL;DR/Summary
    Overall, I'd love some engaging and rewarding PvE content that doesn't feel like I can just faceroll and there's no challenge or meaning to defeating a mob. To incorporate the party social mechanic to have meaning and require cooperation. Also, to include some competitive instanced PvP that doesn't have a ridiculous barrier of entry to it, and I think also encouraging more open world PvP to occur, while also having the discouragement of player killing, would make players possibly get into PvP more. I think immersion that gives meaning to the game and can keep players and friends together, enjoying the game, without having too short of a play time to "end-game" is the ultimate goal.
  • kroseidakroseida Member
    edited June 22
    I step through the threshold alone.. but its hard to leave the portal alive.

    My idea, portal's which has to be done alone AND portals which has to be done with a "team".
  • I personally find that group content, although Is fun when you have friends, and an active group in your guild, feels unattainable in MMOs I have played. That said, I think If it would be possible to quest together, in a meaningful way that isn't "i can't continue the story unless i have my buddy" I feel that would be my preferred content. That being said, Emergent Content, as a living world, would also satisfy this need as, to me, would feel like I need to be there, to help the world, and experience the story together, with other players. And when historical things happen in these missions, when players feel there is gravity to success or failure... That is where friendships are forged in my opinion.

    So if I were to rate what kinds of content I would want over others.. I think i would rank thusly
    Emergent >> Compelling Story (hopefully with a multiplayer option, like Monster Hunter World, or GW2) > Economy/Skilling/Crafting >= Dungeon/Raid content

    Though, Please don't misinterpret, I think each of these objectives/pillars of MMOs are equally important, but these things are the Priorities that I take. I play Skyrim and Runescape. Games where I love to craft, and skill. Grinding in RS isn't my favorite thing, so I go from thing to thing for what I want. Like Skyrim, I enjoy crafting and exploring. GW2 + ESO are probably my favorite MMOs though, I would prefer the flashier combat and more skill options like that in FFXIV. so. Yeah thats my 2 cents on this
  • ilisfetilisfet Member, Braver of Worlds
    I'd jump into the portal alone. Like hell I'll gather comrades who won't scour every nook and cranny!

    For exploration and lore focused content, I definitely prefer solo. Taking in the scenery and history is best done in a relaxed pace, and players are prone to rush everything.

    Group and raid content still has it's place, though. I prefer content to be alternating between slow paced and challenging; group content is often where the challenge comes in. It can be solo, too -- I just need some downtime between challenges because being on edge all the time is exhausting.

    I'm not quite sure what you mean by "emergent" gameplay, but is it like players banding together to take on randomly spawned world events? I remember world bosses from Eden Eternal would steadily march towards the nearest town once spawned. If players didn't defeat it and their entourage (usually 4 high level mobs), they'd attack and break the town's crystal, disabling all town functions until the boss is defeated. They rarely ever got to a town, but at dead hours on unpopulated servers they did.

    There's also just navigational challenges. Identifying and traversing a route to a location or objective is one of my favorite activities in an otherwise combat focused game. It's a fun break from genocide, and stimulates the brain in a way combat may never do. This is a solo activity, but can be done alongside others. It's just forcing this kind of thing to be a group activity requires gating mechanics that'd be more annoying than anything, such as requiring a partner to hold down a pressure plate. What would be better is a Breath of the Wild approach, where there is an object you can move to hold down the pressure plate, but you can also use a person if you're with someone.

    Overall I'm an "Explorer," which means I plumb the depths of the world, lore, and systems. I end up traversing the path to mastery so there ought to be content to both push and test mastery. ...Though I never achieve mastery. I'm satisfied seeing where the top is as opposed to reaching it. Exploration means seeing everything, not conquering everything.
  • teylouneteyloune Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    A mysterious portal appears in front of you. Do you:

    a) Gather your companions for backup?
    b) Step through the threshold alone?
    I inform my companions by all available means that I'm going ahead and that they will follow me.
    I don't know for how long the Portal will be be open, i have to find out what secrets lie on the other side..!
    I can try to stabilize the portal from the other side to ensure that my backup will actually make it to me without complications.. we don't want them to tear a hole into reality itself just to follow my orders, do we?
  • snapdragnsnapdragn Member
    edited June 23
    I'm more of a solo player because I like to explore to find new resources to gather. I would go through the portal alone. Well not really alone, my furry friend would go with me. Adventure is always better share with a furry, feathered or scaled friend. Besides if I want all the loot and the best story to tell I will need to go in alone. If my Guild is going to explore a cave or ruin I am always happy to go along but if I'm already there I may join up with anyone in the area to help them out.
    Things I would like:
    1. get some exp for finding a new area or discovering a new plant or creature.
    2. a journal to keep records of the things and places I find.
    3. A lab table to test the plants to find their properties. Don't just tell me what they are for(and I'm not eating that either). This would open another skill set for alchemists or botanists. Plant and animal identification.
    4. No level specific areas. I want to go where I want to go. If I find a big nasty creature (or little nasty creatures) that eat my face then the next time I will know to sneak and avoid them. Don't tell me what level they are, let me find out for myself. The fear/excitement of the unknown is part of exploring. I want to get into trouble. Creature identification could be a skill for a Tamer or Ranger.
    5. A lot of creatures to tame and different ways to tame them. I need to observe their behavior to learn the best way to tame them. I would need a Taming skill and Observation skills to be successful.
    6. I'm very picky when selecting the Guild to join. So having an in game way for the guilds in or around a Node to advertise would be helpful. A bulletin board in the local inn would work for this. I don't want to leave the game to look on a forum post to find a Guild.
    7. A bulletin board where listings for Hiring Guards for Caravans or needing other services can be posted. Anyone can apply to the person posting to ask for a job. The person can decline or accept to hire the person.
    8. When I find an new resource to gather I would like a way to mark it on my map so I can remember where it is. This would be nice for marking cave entrances, ruins, a creature you want to farm for resources, or the best picture taking spots. Give me map markers, tabs, multiple maps. Let them be persistent and editable.

    Sorry I've turned this into a wish list. I will be happy with whatever AoC is. I will discover all the things and get killed by all the things and it will be glorious. I hope. :wink:

    Have a great day and play nice.
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, and miles to go before I sleep. R. Frost"
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  • leameseleamese Member, Braver of Worlds
    Depends, if comerads are close then wait for them. But otherwise I'd jump, no hesitation. Imagine the portal going away and you didn't took the leap :open_mouth:
  • SynzoaSynzoa Member
    I enjoy playing in raids, small groups and solo.

    Dark immersive dungeons that have puzzles in them are my favorite. It would be cool if you could make one dungeon have a variety of puzzles that would randomly spawn along with deadly traps.

    This would give tons of replayability to the dungeons and not just be a grind of the same mobs and bosses.
  • skearnskearn Member
    my fav types of content are exploring and lvling, also raiding and pvp but those 2 are number 2 spots for me.

    i especially love these things when its organic in almost every way and also with a degree of difficulty like in classic wow where you really think about how to approach things.

    thats what i love and do^^
    (i would also say that character immersion is THE nr1 thing for me but im trusting the devs to get it right either immediately or at some point:D)
  • sarevoksarevok Member
    edited June 24
    There are multiple areas that need to be looked at when building content.

    1. Solo (Explore, lore, leveling, crafting and self progression)
    2. Dungeons (small group)
    3. Housing/Guild Hall (instanced or not - sense of "home")
    4. PvP/Sieges (open world or instanced battlegrounds ranging from solo to multiple groups)
    5. Raids (large or multiple groups with PvE and PvPvE)

    All faucets should come with their own goals, requirements, and rewards that may indirectly boost another area. I.e. Daily quests to help a node progress that you can do solo, with a group, or large raid depending on the objective which will help your guild level up so you can upgrade to a Guild Hall unlocking work benches to make better items for guild members that will help you PvE or PvP better. Eventually leading to your guild's strength in claiming the Castle for the area.

    Offering multiple options like this and interconnecting them will help all types of players from the ones that can't put a lot of time in during the week to the other players with more time to invest. It gives everyone a sense of contribution and progression to whatever it is they are striving for.
  • trutheternaltrutheternal Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
    Emergent > group (organized PvP > dungeon > open world) > raid > solo.
  • toastinatortoastinator Member
    edited June 25
    Hey,
    first of all, i am a very social type and love playing with other people. Whether it is my guild, my raid grp or pvping buddies. But i always had this one thing with my main (a blue goat hunter ;P) where i just went out in the world and played her like the bada** huntress she was/still is. She went out on her own, killing gigantic monsters on der own, even if it was hard and took me darksouls levels of attempts and well over 30 minutes. i just had the fun, thinking of her has this "i take no s***t from anybody" woman, who bashes monster skulls, with her animal buddy.
    Lately that shifted to her, luring on cliffs, waiting for a worthy opponent (at least same level) and then jumping down on them, sometimes even get 2 or 3 enemys to there knees, because i had the element of suprise and a strategy in my head.
    Later i would come back to the town or to a beautifull place i like and just let the thrill of the hunt sink in, while i relax.

    So this is, what i realy want in an mmo.
    If i am good, then i should be able to compete and show that to my enemies (PvP or PvE).
    Exploration, Competition and company... i wana make my own story.

    Hope development is going smooth, i cant wait for Alpha :)

    (Btw: Could we please get a completely free UI? I hate searching for addons to do things like, that.)
  • damokles wrote: »
    - solo exploration (give someone a reward when they explore somewhere really hard to find, maybe a special title or something cosmetic for your armour)

    I, kind of, have to disagree at this point. Exploration is a reward on its own, in my eyes.
    The knowlege, that you found this cool place and you can show it to your friends or keep it secret is reward enough, i think.
    But i suppose, hidden treasures or seecret texts with a cosmetic change (many even for a spell) would be cool too.
  • damoklesdamokles Member
    damokles wrote: »
    - solo exploration (give someone a reward when they explore somewhere really hard to find, maybe a special title or something cosmetic for your armour)

    I, kind of, have to disagree at this point. Exploration is a reward on its own, in my eyes.
    The knowlege, that you found this cool place and you can show it to your friends or keep it secret is reward enough, i think.
    But i suppose, hidden treasures or seecret texts with a cosmetic change (many even for a spell) would be cool too.

    I also believe that exploration in and of itself should be a reward, but it would still be cool to get something for being the first to actually find this or solve a really complex and time consuming puzzle.
    Another cool thing would be special furniture if you find this specific area, like a stone plaque that you can show in your freehold.
    4vIAwsd.gif
  • tinukedatinukeda Member, Braver of Worlds
    I've tried and enjoyed all of the content types listed.

    I'm happy to solo farm things, do group/raid/party events and all of the in-betweens.
    (it depends on what I want out of the game at any given day/week/month)

    Emergent Gameplay, however, is a special topic and one near/dead to my heart thanks to AA.

    I see the topic of EG as something that can encourage creativity on both sides of the equation.

    From AA, take cart blocking for example: used in small scale, this was actually useful and encouraged guild/family coordination. Used in BULK (see: stupidgirl's 20 alts w/ free carts), this was a BAD thing that frustrated and drove off many people.
  • kuuric197kuuric197 Member
    edited June 26
    So I gave an answer the other day and provided my ideas, but I just wanted to add something real quick because I'm about to re-download a game and play it solely for this point.

    I love exploration and really immersing yourself in the world. I'm about to get Revelation Online again solely because I love the ability to fly and I like exploring the map to places that maybe I'm not a high enough level for yet. If there were secret dungeons spread out in fancy areas where players could explore and find a dungeon, or a view, or do something that no one has done before by exploring the map and finding things, I'd find that so much fun.

    A real immersive social aspect to that so that I can explore with friends and other people who enjoy those kinds of things so that if we find some far off dungeon or raid and complete it together, we get to enjoy searching for it and the feeling of beating something that no one else has found yet and we can go share it to other people.

    I also like pretty maps and that stuff so finding a new view on the map by finding some ledge, or possibly (thinking Log Horizon anime, or I know Pantheon has something like this), you beat some raid/dungeon that no one has done before or go through some passageway that no one has found before and you are met with some amazing view that you can share with your friends and be the first to experience, or one of very few to ever experience.

    That would be really cool to me. Exploration added in to everything along with the previously mentioned challenging PvE and smooth PvP experiences. I like exploring solo so I can bring people to that location to explore with me. :)

    EDIT: Explore the plains, explore the cliffs, explore the sea (above and below), explore the sky. Explore everything, with and without friends. :D And if I find something good, go tell my friends so I can bring them exploring with me.
  • decatedecate Member
    We can use skills with a mix of buttons to press like a Black Desert?
  • zomnivorezomnivore Member, Braver of Worlds
    My favorite NPCs have all allowed me to interact with them in a breadth of ways with various consequences. I loved the systems I found it today's modern RPGs and hope the game learns from them.
  • LieutenantToastLieutenantToast Administrator, Moderator, Staff
    Thanks all as usual for jumping in and sharing your thoughts <3 wrapping things up for a recap now, and we'll see you in the next Dev Discussion soon!
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