Pre game strategy mechanism PvP

This post is about a simple mechanism to for players to come up with some stratagy with out to much chat. Now the reason think this is neccessary is because.....you are shooting for 500vs 500 but let just stick to 250.

So we have 250 people in the pre game area figuring out were they are all going to go. One way to make this a litte easier is to show a mini map of the battleground with the different points of interest lets just say A B C and D
If you could click on point A and that would add to the running totall of players slated to go to that area.

So lets say Im a tank and click on point A then it would increase count by one and show that tank is going to area. So there would be a count per class.

Chat channel would be used for things like need a healer at those point. Let send this many to this point. Lets say Point D does not have to many people slated might be better to avoid area or just see if there are any volunteers that want to go.

This way every one knows were they are going cause they are the ones that clicked on point in the first place. No confusion and it is all the players choice.

Think similar system could be used in battle to track freindly team. And it could be even localized so that once BR starts
it tracks people in your area. Maybe not the whole map.

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Karthos

Or, you know, we just use Discord and say "group one to the right tower".

consultant

You ever try to manage 250 peole in real life when they are withing earshot of each other. People that have freewill not that you are in charge of just how long do you think it will take you. Easy to say hard to do.
Possible IF and this is Big IF every one listens to raid leader. Even with discord Raid leeader needs some visual representation to keep track of people. Just so you can say well I already sent 50 people here. and 50 people there. Plus you have to manage comps to spread out bards and clerics were you need them. and so on just like a strategy map.

But if you want to do the 250 and 500 people on discord welcome to try.

Karthos

consultant wrote: »

You ever try to manage 250 peole in real life when they are withing earshot of each other. People that have freewill not that you are in charge of just how long do you think it will take you. Easy to say hard to do.
Possible IF and this is Big IF every one listens to raid leader. Even with discord Raid leeader needs some visual representation to keep track of people. Just so you can say well I already sent 50 people here. and 50 people there. Plus you have to manage comps to spread out bards and clerics were you need them. and so on just like a strategy map.

But if you want to do the 250 and 500 people on discord welcome to try.

Yes. I have.

I have incident command expirence, including coordinating search and rescue operations that required the organization of 300+ police, fire, national guard and private citizens.

consultant

Well how long did it take for game purpose has to be less than guessing 3 min to get people were you wanted them.

Azryil

consultant wrote: »

You ever try to manage 250 peole in real life when they are withing earshot of each other. People that have freewill not that you are in charge of just how long do you think it will take you. Easy to say hard to do.
Possible IF and this is Big IF every one listens to raid leader. Even with discord Raid leeader needs some visual representation to keep track of people. Just so you can say well I already sent 50 people here. and 50 people there. Plus you have to manage comps to spread out bards and clerics were you need them. and so on just like a strategy map.

But if you want to do the 250 and 500 people on discord welcome to try.

And what makes you think just because someone clicked on a point on a map they won't change their mind once the battle starts? You're dealing with up to 500 people there are always going to be people or entire groups that disagree with the orders given by the "General" in addition because of the number of people present it's going to be at least two guilds and in all likelihood several more than that, unless each guild has worked out that they will listen to the commands of another guild they're more than likely going to work as semi autonomous groups.

Karthos

It just sounds like more micro managing than is worth.

Ultimately, as @arzosah pointed out, you have no real assurance that your group is going to be doing what you've asked of them unless you're a real seriously organized unit.

And if you're a real seriously organized unit, you won't need a system to baby sit your guys.

consultant

Well yes a player could change their mind that is something that is trivail. But the point is the player makes the choice were they are going. They are just letting other people know. So let say a lot of players are thinking of going point A . If there already to many people that have the same thought there they might be inclined to go to another point cause they just want t to win. And based on the players choice people that are assigned the general positions could request people to go to some other objecitve. Really easy.

So lets they want to listen to commands form another guild (same thing as a general that you already stated people will disagree with) let say guild command is 50 people go to point D. So those people confirm it by clicking on the point D and person giving the guild command sees that. So now you have a visual indicator that they know were to go cause they are the ones that clicked on it. Of course they could change their mind on the way to point D but that is beside the point.

Plus guessing with 250 they are not going to know all the people by name but could easily see how many of each class is at each point just by looking at the map. So could request cleric. Even if you pre-plan it, it still gives you a conformation that everything is going smoothly and as planned.

Really no different than a simple strategy map, Nothing autonomous about it cause every choice is being made by the individual player. And as players make choices that affects how other people make their choice.
Simple tool but not fool proof.

consultant

So the flaw here is people might change their mind and no way of knowing of what they will actually do. Well that is the whole point of this mechanism trying to figure out were people are going. But you say really no way to know. Think most people have enough foresight to make a simple decision like this in a video game.

Well whichever method you chose you really do not know were people are going to go because they might change their mind . Even if they agree by clicking or prior planning or any other method there is literally no way in the universe to predict were people are going cause the might change their mind. That is a catch all. I could say that about dinner. There is no way to know what I am going to have for dinner until I eat it. Might change my mind. What is the point of that statement.

Maybe what you are trying promote is people just do whatever they want which is cool. You can go to whatever point you want. All that is asked of you is a single click to denote your choice. There plenty of players out there that will play around other people choices because winning is more important to them than just doing whatever they want.

So you get a group that has a bunch of people that changes their mind like you said no way to know. Actually been there done that it is called instant que and no communication. No point in even communicating cause people might change their mind.

Dygz

That OP has confusing grammar...

I don't think there will be a pre-game area that can be used as suggested.
In Ashes, battlegrounds are caravans - there won't be a mini-map for us to choose where to send attackers to a caravan.
Raid leaders and party leaders will have tools that can be use to direct troops where they want them on the battlefield. But, it will be in-game; not pre-game. And those tools will be used at the battle site.

Damokles

It would be nice for "commanders" to get special right, so that they could create/draw on their map and share it with their subordinates.

Noaani

dygz wrote: »

That OP has confusing grammar...

I don't think there will be a pre-game area that can be used as suggested.
In Ashes, battlegrounds are caravans - there won't be a mini-map for us to choose where to send attackers to a caravan.
Raid leaders and party leaders will have tools that can be use to direct troops where they want them on the battlefield. But, it will be in-game; not pre-game. And those tools will be used at the battle site.

I have to agree with this. With the exception of sieges, PvP in Ashes won't really be scheduled or anything. You see a caravan, you attack the caravan.

Sieges *may* work a little differently, as they take place at a set time in a set place, but that place is still (as far as we know) the open world.

At the end of the day, any number of players in any game will only listen to someone if they decide that they are ok with that player being the leader. People that are after enjoyment won't follow someone they don't want to follow.

If you have 500 people all in a Discord channel, all wanting to follow the orders of that one person, then that one person will have no real challenges in getting their orders out.

On the other hand, if a large proportion of that 500 don't want to follow that player, that player won't be able to get their orders out in any legible manner, but that doesn't really matter because those orders would never be followed anyway.

Basically, this thread is a question of leadership, not of the game or a game system.

consultant

As far as leadership is concerned most do us some type of mechanism to keep track of people. In military operations they almost always use maps and computers to keep track of people.

So what you are saying that good leadership makes this type of strategy map unecessary. Think not using this mechanism given the option too is bad leadership.

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Ravudha

I like the idea of using tech and tools to help with large-scale efforts.

Why can't this be done in discord chat with everyone but leaders, team leaders etc, put on silent? The benefit of voice chat is it's an auditory channel and does not detract from the game visuals. If you know the size and composition of your sub-groups you wouldn't need counters on the mini-map.

Edited:
I can see how having a visual reference can help; I'm a little worried about its usability: relying on everyone updating positions regularly (especially if battlegrounds are highly dynamic) and whether deciphering the visual map data will require more effort to use vs voice chat.

Noaani

ravudha wrote: »

relying on everyone updating positions regularly (especially if battlegrounds are highly dynamic) and whether deciphering the visual map data will require more effort to use vs voice chat.

The bulk of people will either do as the leader has asked - in which case such a system isn't needed, or not click where they are going, or not click anything at all - in which case such a system is harmful.

It's as I said, the idea in the OP won't work. I'm all for adding in tools that will work, but this specific idea isn't one.

consultant

Well think it would be very easy system to test and see if it is viable or not. Could easily be tested in Betas just to see how it would works. They are already going to have a mini map and full sized map guessing taking up entire screen. Should take less than an hour of coding for just base model of this system. Maybe they do not have an hour to spar cause their plat is full.

Wandering Mist

consultant wrote: »

Well think it would be very easy system to test and see if it is viable or not. Could easily be tested in Betas just to see how it would works. They are already going to have a mini map and full sized map guessing taking up entire screen. Should take less than an hour of coding for just base model of this system. Maybe they do not have an hour to spar cause their plat is full.

I think you hugely underestimate how long it takes to put something like this into the game.....

consultant

It just a counter at the most basic level. Most UI that they need will already be built for other systems so just need to make it fit the map.

Dygz

Whatever it is will be in-game rather than pre-game.

Viymjr

This idea might work for PVE raiding but for PVP battles I cant see it working. These situations are far too fluid and people are just far too random. The scale of the battles that are in line for Ashes has never really taken place before in fantasy MMO's so the organisation of these is going to be a challenge. I can only see this happening by people (leaders) discussing strategy over voice directly.

When battle commences there is going to be chaos, but that is the fog of war. People will learn and adapt. Those that do will be the ones that win. I dont think adding something like this will assist and I would prefer to see people figure out battle strategy out of the game.

Ravudha

consultant wrote: »

Should take less than an hour of coding for just base model of this system.

I see you used the 'throw a dart at the board for a random number' method of estimating implementation time. It's certainly popular among gamers.

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