Stats and item attributes create a lot of data driven problems that need third party tools to solve.

I don't want to have to go to excel spreadsheets or some third party software (or someones website) to improve my performance with the game.

How will ashes plan on addressing the vast complexity that can come with very granular items and stat builds?

I've found that the genre of card games has come a long way to help the uninitiated or unskilled have a handle on how to make effective and fun decks that achieve player driven goals. How can mmo's improve on how they help players chart what builds they've made and or what items they should use to achieve their varied desires?

Ultimately the stats and items can only support so many optimal styles of play, but charting your path through these very data driven systems can be confusing and if you have a goal in mind its often hard to figure out how best to achieve it, without relying on external sources for help.

Usually the stats are a very data driven and for good reason; balance... exploration of what character's can achieve in pve or pvp combat is left up to the players and some QA, but generally that data is only collected behind the scenes. So players whom perform poorly don't know what to improve, and those whom perform well, have no incentive to share.

Then that data is tested, collected and charted external from the game, and what's optimal is found, and then players develop different meta's of builds with that data. Then to the exclusion of low tier play, the game is balanced, and people are left scratching their heads as to why, while the already equipped are racing past the starting gate, to the next batch of data driven testing.

Only the top players are in the know of that data. If you're at all connected to these external sources, your leaps and bounds more effective then those blindly playing the game.

Data driven tools have shown up in other genres like in in DOTA 2 where there's an entirely optional subscription to have access to a data parsing player guiding tool.

I think serving players for free would be optimal, but giving them an option to pay for is still preferable because more players can effectively participate in communal activities, and feel that they are making a valuable contribution toward their goals.

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Noaani

neuroguy wrote: »

This notion of "even playing field" is very strange to me in mmos.

An even playing field is not the same as an even match.

Think of any team based ball sport (which ever happens to be your favorite). An even playing field is one that is flat, both halves are the same size (wouldn't be a half if they weren't), goals/posts are the same size etc.

When this happens, you still usually get one team that beats the other, but neither team is able to blame the field.

In terms of an MMO, since both players have 100% access to the full game (subscription system of the game depending), the only thing that can cause an uneven playing field are things outside the game itself. The only thing that can really exist outside the game, and still be within the rules (EULA) is information. Therefore, the only way you can create an uneven playing field in an MMO is to have a game where there is enough going on in combat to need to gather information on it, but no system built in to the game with which to gather that information.

neuroguy

noaani wrote: »

In terms of an MMO, since both players have 100% access to the full game (subscription system of the game depending), the only thing that can cause an uneven playing field are things outside the game itself. The only thing that can really exist outside the game, and still be within the rules (EULA) is information. Therefore, the only way you can create an uneven playing field in an MMO is to have a game where there is enough going on in combat to need to gather information on it, but no system built in to the game with which to gather that information.

I think I disagree. This is true only in principle and the longer the game is out/people play it, the less this is true I think. When you throw in RNG and variable play times like I mentioned, I think people will have experienced and have access to different things. Your perception of a flat ground changes if you have people 4ft to 8ft tall running around on it... even if it's truly flat, you won't really notice and importantly, it becomes much less consequential that it's flat.

This is important in terms of P2W (or lack thereof) but not really beyond that too much I think.

bloodprophet

"In the information age. The only advantage a company has over another. Is the speed at which they can gather and disseminate inform through out their organization."
Bill Gates : Business at the speed of thought

Gathering , storing and using the information provided to us by the game will give those that do the research and apply it the best a greater edge.
Those that won't do any research will always be at a disadvantage.

Noaani

neuroguy wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

In terms of an MMO, since both players have 100% access to the full game (subscription system of the game depending), the only thing that can cause an uneven playing field are things outside the game itself. The only thing that can really exist outside the game, and still be within the rules (EULA) is information. Therefore, the only way you can create an uneven playing field in an MMO is to have a game where there is enough going on in combat to need to gather information on it, but no system built in to the game with which to gather that information.

I think I disagree. This is true only in principle and the longer the game is out/people play it, the less this is true I think. When you throw in RNG and variable play times like I mentioned, I think people will have experienced and have access to different things. Your perception of a flat ground changes if you have people 4ft to 8ft tall running around on it... even if it's truly flat, you won't really notice and importantly, it becomes much less consequential that it's flat.

This is important in terms of P2W (or lack thereof) but not really beyond that too much I think.

Sticking with sport, especially more amateur leagues - some teams practice once a week, some practice three times a week. That doesn't alter the need for an even playing field when the actual competition starts. RNG in the form of wind or other weather conditions also exist, but still don't diminish the need for an even playing field.

In terms of an MMO, the longer the game is out, the larger and harder to bridge the gap will become between those with access to information and those without it, which is why it is important to give everyone equal access to it from day 1.

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