kayra wrote: » @ravudha Agreed. Even if they go full tab, I believe there will be some action mechanics at least as much as ESO - requiring line of sight to aim as you said.
kayra wrote: » The 'tab vs action' discussion has been going on forever as both sides fail to convince one another that theirs' is the better option. Tab target has been a staple in most MMOs as it's traditional and very easy to implement while action requires more money, time and technology. Tab target is successful and does work however, there's a growing number of people - especially young people think it is outdated and one of the reasons why the total number of people playing MMORPGs (Around 20 million players) is smaller than a single shooter game (Overwatch - 30 million players) that is considered 'dead' by many people. When the number is compared with the most successful game of our time (League of Legends - 115 million), MMOs do seem quite niche. They argue that these games are successful because they have fun and engaging combat, which draws young people who make up the majority of gamers today. However, we all know that there is more to MMOs than just the combat; it is a living world, and as the MMORPG community is somewhat diverse, many have different reasons to why they play MMOs. 'combat makes or kills a game' is still relevant tho. Ashes want to achieve a hybrid combat, and despite the fact they claim the player choice will determine play-style, the game will supposedly feel more like one or the other. So I ask you; what kind of combat would you like to see in Ashes; more tab or action-oriented? (Please note that this is part of a small survey I've been conducting and your answers will be of great help 🧝🏻♂️)
wanderingmist wrote: » kayra wrote: » @ravudha Agreed. Even if they go full tab, I believe there will be some action mechanics at least as much as ESO - requiring line of sight to aim as you said. Line of Sight is a very simple (yet effective) way of adding depth to a tab-target combat system. Other ways of adding depth would be multi-tasking. When I played FFXIV I immediately gravitated towards the Summoner class because I knew that having a pet that I could use to attack separately from me added depth and would be more interesting than the other classes.
kayra wrote: » @jahlon Runescape's world record has nothing to do with the fact that League of Legends is the most popular game of our time. In the last 3 years things might have changed and Fortnite *might* have taken the throne of League but this does not disprove my point that young people enjoy engaging combat in fact it proves it even more. You may think numbers weren't needed to ask people whether they prefer action or tab and I respect your opinion on that. However, I don't see how it would make the survey 'flawed'. I simply take the opinions of all people who comment here and jot it down. Thanks for your concern tho 😅
kayra wrote: » This is not what Steven means when he says 'hybrid combat'. You're probably referring to his talk with @jahlon regarding what he considers 'action'. The idea is to combine Apocalypse action combat with traditional tab target which we've never seen before.
seaber wrote: » kayra wrote: » This is not what Steven means when he says 'hybrid combat'. You're probably referring to his talk with @jahlon regarding what he considers 'action'. The idea is to combine Apocalypse action combat with traditional tab target which we've never seen before. PBAoEs, GTAoEs, linear skillshots, soft cc, invisibility, chain skills, directional protection, knock backs, linear teleports, summonable walls and leaving a trail are many of the skills in Apoc and they are all present in other hybrid(but probably what you call tab target) mmorpgs.
jahlon wrote: » seaber wrote: » kayra wrote: » This is not what Steven means when he says 'hybrid combat'. You're probably referring to his talk with @jahlon regarding what he considers 'action'. The idea is to combine Apocalypse action combat with traditional tab target which we've never seen before. PBAoEs, GTAoEs, linear skillshots, soft cc, invisibility, chain skills, directional protection, knock backs, linear teleports, summonable walls and leaving a trail are many of the skills in Apoc and they are all present in other hybrid(but probably what you call tab target) mmorpgs. Yeah with this you have to come to the realization that its been years and years since we've had a Pure Traditional "Tab" game. Most of what we have been playing is Tab+ and like you said Tab bordering on Hybrid.
seaber wrote: » jahlon wrote: » seaber wrote: » kayra wrote: » This is not what Steven means when he says 'hybrid combat'. You're probably referring to his talk with @jahlon regarding what he considers 'action'. The idea is to combine Apocalypse action combat with traditional tab target which we've never seen before. PBAoEs, GTAoEs, linear skillshots, soft cc, invisibility, chain skills, directional protection, knock backs, linear teleports, summonable walls and leaving a trail are many of the skills in Apoc and they are all present in other hybrid(but probably what you call tab target) mmorpgs. Yeah with this you have to come to the realization that its been years and years since we've had a Pure Traditional "Tab" game. Most of what we have been playing is Tab+ and like you said Tab bordering on Hybrid. Tab+ ? Tab bordering on Hybrid? If it's 99% targeted and 1% calculated then it's a hybrid. Only games that are 100% targeted or 100% calculated are not hybrids. I've changed to saying calculated instead of action because that's what decides if something is 'tab' or 'action'. Targeted skills are simple player X takes Y damage. Calculated skills require area checks, ray tracing, or communication with many clients.
leonerdo wrote: » The parts about action-oriented systems that I enjoying are: The camera/mouse controls -- The traditional way of using mouse buttons to select things and turn the camera is both tedious AND a waste of mouse buttons. Locking the mouse to camera controls and using left/right click for attacks feels much better to me. The increased focus on mobility within skills -- Some skills are used primarily for movement, some lock you in place for big attacks or big blocks, some just have a little nudge to add impact to the attack, and some let you move more freely. The variety and impact is what makes it interesting and fun. And the active defense -- Not just moving out of the way of attacks, but also blocking/countering/iframing. Also, it's nice to watch boss animations rather than just looking at danger-colored polygons on the floor. I've had enough of casually walking out of telegraphs. What I don't care about is the targetting scheme. You can have all of the above and still include tab-targetting, and I would consider it action-oriented. And ugh, I really want to rant about the shooter mechanics Intrepid has been testing (headshots, really?) because I don't know if it'll work out or not. But maybe it'll be fine. I'll just say I have a lot of reservations about putting precise-aiming gameplay into an RPG. I'll wait for us to get our hands on the game before I lament any more.
jahlon wrote: » The only danger to that is damage and accuracy are also mathematically calculated in tab combat.
