The Fooshyy Retention Rant

We need a carrot on a stick, and currently there are none
Also to note, it's really just smart game mechanics to keep people playing. Really all of this is. A second currency to get after every match would work the same. Doesn't have to be embers

I assume it is Intrepid studios goal to make a standalone game out of every one of these game modes to Apocalypse. I would love to see the BR come back to life, but most importantly I want to see Siege, and horde mode come out behind the curtains kicking.

While the BR Suffered from relaunching, reiterating, networking, false dreams and hopes. I am hopeful a large majority of these issues stay in the past and we can have the best possible product we can get for as little of an effort as possible. Without investing a huge amount of time into it.

My opinion in short; this is true, no matter how you look at it. Gamers are leeches, and they want everything for free. Gone are the days of fun, but rather work and progression. We play to feel special, to be someone. Not a nobody. Novelty wears off so they need progression, so they feel special, and they're somebody. #3 kill leader on leaderboard big hype... So what do you do? How do we get as many people coming back as possible?

Answer:

Give people free shit, make them feel special, and Allow them to continue progressing with a clear identification that this person is special.

Suggestions:

Post level 50 Compendium, continue allowing people to aquire xp, to continue leveling. Give 100 embers every 3 levels. However you want to scale it. The point is, people can continue playing, and grinding for a purpose. And progress to get Cosmetics, to get PROGRESSION.

Same thing with leaderboards, they're cool. They'll help, but add 100-1000 ember weekly rewards for seperate categories for 10th to 1st place accordingly, OR TITLES and you have uniqueness/specialness.

While adding an identification to those past 50, every 50 levels like a prestige system. Add a bunch of new icons for level bracket, and when you press tab for scoreboard in siege, you'll see the level icon. THEY'LL FEEL LIKE GODS.

Trust me when I say this, we had 200 Imp people playing the BR, and when they got level 50, they quit week 2. It's fact. Games are only fun for a time, the novelty runs out and we're left with nothing. But give the players the ability to show off, grind for a goal, and a consistent way to farm Everything for free, you'll have players every day for a long time. Consider it. Think about it. Ask your experts. Am I wrong?

LEADERBOARDS, AND GUILDS ARE NOT ENOUGH TO KEEP SIEGE ALIVE AS A PRODUCT.
I threw up a huge list earlier but that seemed to be ignored, I have no confirmation whether or not any of that was taken into consideration or even looked at. Here's that list again. Dancing around the same premises.

-Ideas for Retention and Growth in Apoc: BR/Siege modes--

1. Add into chests random small amounts of embers 1-5. Incorporate diminishing returns. Add title: Treasure Hunter/ember Hunter title reward achievement

2. Have achievements (i.e. kill 250 people with this weapon type) and have titles attached to them for the mmorpg.
2.5. kill achievements also layer with a color varient of base model, but max achievement is a god tier Cosmetic. Corruption bow/Sword? Completely new model. One of a kind.

4. Finishing quests reward small amounts of embers (i.e finish in top 10 25 times rewards 10 embers)

4. Opening chests randomly (very rarely) give special weapon or armor skin.

5. Play a single class (priest, mage, warrior ect) in Siege for 500 matches gives achievement, title for mmorpg and a skin for that class ( tier it so 100 for achievement, 250 for title, 500 for class specific skin.

6. Have leaderboard have weekly reward for top three places... larger amount of embers... 100-1000

7. Have titles for amount of time survived total...(i.e. 5 hour- Survivor, 20 hours- gladiator ect.)

8. Have more hidden items (i.e. sandal....)

9. Reward for playing class role in Siege. (i.e. healing so many HP 10,000 gives achievement, 100,000 gives mmorpg title)

-Idea is to give GOALS for players to reach and KEEP playing, this in addition to current leveling system will help to do that!

Also this is in thought that they're trying to make a standalone game. Instead of creating unique assets, use the currency. Put up all the other revariations you have. While someone has 500 embers, they might need 1000 more. So Instead of farming another day, which they could. They might just splurge the $10.

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DrEpoch

In Apex, you can farm an in-game currency to buy legends, and Cosmetics.

Ghoosty

Me as a free player, it was nearly impossible to get lvl 50 by the end of the month. As a free player, you do not have anymore reward after lvl 25. The smaller map was good idea, but they screwed up something. I have huge performance issues. Some part of the map, I am OK, but some part I have quite low FPS even with minimum setting. Some part of the map, I am walking within textures in that deep that my character is not visible. Once I had a fight under textures. None of us saw anything. This was not corrected when the map received the update.
The playerbase dopped down that only one type of game was available so more and more daily quest was not solvable.
Teamchat not exist so you can't communicate with a random partner so you have much less chance to win against a premade team.

These together caused that I quit playing when I reached lvl 25. To come back they need to do more than give a few amber after some levels.

But you can count on me if siege or horde mode opens.

DrEpoch

Ghoosty wrote: »

These together caused that I quit playing when I reached lvl 25. To come back they need to do more than give a few amber after some levels.

But you can count on me if siege or horde mode opens.

Right? Something atleast. If you're pumping games out 24-7, let it be known. If you're getting huge kill streaks. If you're surviving for a long time. If your KDR is really good. If you're opening a butt ton of chests. Whatever your gameplay. Something else to earn while playing. Even free to play players should have something. Even some embers every few levels or games. Then that rate is doubled for compendium users. The daily quests. But yeah I feel yah, if you didn't have the compendium for those extra quests daily and weekly. It hurt. But this incentives you or anyone to pay for Compendium for convenience and more Cosmetics.

I get it, they a company so they gotta make money.But incentivize everyone respectively and we good

Ferryman

cyanideinsanity wrote: »

ferryman wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

If the devs threw APOC in the trashcan, we would probably have to wait until June or July to get our hands on the game. The intention is for APOC to be a "standalone" game with several game modes - not for each game mode to be a standalone game. And "standalone" basically means that APOC is in a different time setting than the MMORPG and has separate monetization from the MMORPG.

Yeah right. Without Apoc we would have Alpha 1 already.

We probably wouldn't have had a1 until months after apoc's initial release as its has far more features than apoc in its entirety, including the action/tab combat, and right now it would probably be down to redo the network backend like we have already experienced.

We have to remember that Apoc's development has started perhaps at least 1,5 years ago and has delayed the MMO for sure. At the beginning the MMO development progressed really fast and the launch was planned for 2019 if I remember right. Okay, this schedule sounded way too optimistic, even Steven and Jeffrey were quite confident about it. IS has shown that scheduling is not their strongest point, but I am sure they would not made so big mistakes with calculations that there would not even be A1 on the air at the end of 2019.

Ferryman

Davlos wrote: »

ferryman wrote: »

Yeah right. Without Apoc we would have Alpha 1 already.

That's what a gamedev-illiterate rando would say. Laughing at this the same way I do at Jenny McCarthy's opinion on measles.

You just do not understand how much time this side project called Apoc has took from the MMO. I love how blind people are.

Ferryman

Fooshyy wrote: »

ferryman wrote: »

Yeah right. Without Apoc we would have Alpha 1 already.

I'm glad we had these short coming experiences in an environment that's not the MMO. you wouldn't want to touch the MMO if these issues persisted. Let's be honest.

Some people are glad, some are not and some just do not care. This topic divides opinions quite a lot.

We do not actually know what kind of issues there would be if the Apoc would not been implemented at first place. Problems there would be for sure, but that is why the test phases exists, and especially if we think of the A1 there things can be also unfinished.

I do not want to see any more things implemented for Apoc, but unfortunately my wish is going to be vain. I predict, that after all current/upcoming Apoc tests, IS will release Apoc as own game and after that we will get back to MMO track.

cyanideinsanity

ferryman wrote: »

cyanideinsanity wrote: »

ferryman wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

If the devs threw APOC in the trashcan, we would probably have to wait until June or July to get our hands on the game. The intention is for APOC to be a "standalone" game with several game modes - not for each game mode to be a standalone game. And "standalone" basically means that APOC is in a different time setting than the MMORPG and has separate monetization from the MMORPG.

Yeah right. Without Apoc we would have Alpha 1 already.

We probably wouldn't have had a1 until months after apoc's initial release as its has far more features than apoc in its entirety, including the action/tab combat, and right now it would probably be down to redo the network backend like we have already experienced.

We have to remember that Apoc's development has started perhaps at least 1,5 years ago and has delayed the MMO for sure. At the beginning the MMO development progressed really fast and the launch was planned for 2019 if I remember right. Okay, this schedule sounded way too optimistic, even Steven and Jeffrey were quite confident about it. IS has shown that scheduling is not their strongest point, but I am sure they would not made so big mistakes with calculations that there would not even be A1 on the air at the end of 2019.

Yeah, and about half of that time its been down because the networking needed to be redone... If they couldn't get a br running efficiently, what makes you think the mmo would've fared better?

Wandering Mist

I'm a big believer that something should be fun in its own right, and that if you need to add rewards to get players do to a piece of content, then that content isn't fun and should be removed/changed.

DrEpoch

Wandering Mist wrote: »

I'm a big believer that something should be fun in its own right, and that if you need to add rewards to get players do to a piece of content, then that content isn't fun and should be removed/changed.

I mean absolutely! That's a good thing to believe in. But doesn't that content get boring after awhile? APOC was fun when it was new, and we were still experiencing stuff, But we all play our games for our different reasonings afterall.

Some are more real life focused, Thurs not needing much except for fun. Some have no lives and are comfortable playing games without a goal. Meanwhile others are in between, and don't like their time being wasted.

I wish I could go back to just enjoying a game like the olden days

unknown

This content has been removed.

cyanideinsanity

Wandering Mist wrote: »

I'm a big believer that something should be fun in its own right, and that if you need to add rewards to get players do to a piece of content, then that content isn't fun and should be removed/changed.

This is half of why I stopped. Other half is the dead game. I don't mind playing brs now and then but I'm not a big br guy. No doubt many of us were playing to unlock things, rather than to actually play. For comparison I spent more time playing the halo online mod ElDewrito despite there being nothing to unlock because I love halo.

Sure I can unlock stuff in the br, but at the same time it quite quickly got to the point I'd rather play something else that does both.

Wandering Mist

Fooshyy wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

I'm a big believer that something should be fun in its own right, and that if you need to add rewards to get players do to a piece of content, then that content isn't fun and should be removed/changed.

I mean absolutely! That's a good thing to believe in. But doesn't that content get boring after awhile? APOC was fun when it was new, and we were still experiencing stuff, But we all play our games for our different reasonings afterall.

Some are more real life focused, Thurs not needing much except for fun. Some have no lives and are comfortable playing games without a goal. Meanwhile others are in between, and don't like their time being wasted.

I wish I could go back to just enjoying a game like the olden days

It depends on the content. One of the reasons why I've kept playing LoL for so long is because of the diversity it brings. Every match is different, offering different challenges and experiences. Another thing that draws people in is the achievement of Mastery. You keep playing in order to get better at the game and show your mastery of the game to others. That's why most multiplayer games have ladders or leaderboards. I don't care at all about the rewards I'll get from playing ranked matches in LoL, and yet I'm still working hard to get the highest rank I can by the end of the competitive season.

If you want a game to last a long time it's these intrinsic rewards that matter.

Dygz

I would keep playing if we had 20+ players per match. I'd prefer 50+ or whatever it was a year ago.
Seems like the easiest thing for them to do, if it's going to be a 12 week cycle, would be to have a new map each month... and I guess new level 50 armor... and reset each month.
Leaderboards would help. Seems like that should not take a year to implement.
I mean - if you can't even get a leaderboard up and running after a year, having working Nodes is likely to take forever.

DrEpoch

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Fooshyy wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

I'm a big believer that something should be fun in its own right, and that if you need to add rewards to get players do to a piece of content, then that content isn't fun and should be removed/changed.

I mean absolutely! That's a good thing to believe in. But doesn't that content get boring after awhile? APOC was fun when it was new, and we were still experiencing stuff, But we all play our games for our different reasonings afterall.

Some are more real life focused, Thurs not needing much except for fun. Some have no lives and are comfortable playing games without a goal. Meanwhile others are in between, and don't like their time being wasted.

I wish I could go back to just enjoying a game like the olden days

It depends on the content. One of the reasons why I've kept playing LoL for so long is because of the diversity it brings. Every match is different, offering different challenges and experiences. Another thing that draws people in is the achievement of Mastery. You keep playing in order to get better at the game and show your mastery of the game to others. That's why most multiplayer games have ladders or leaderboards. I don't care at all about the rewards I'll get from playing ranked matches in LoL, and yet I'm still working hard to get the highest rank I can by the end of the competitive season.

If you want a game to last a long time it's these intrinsic rewards that matter.

It's been awhile since I've experienced something like LoL. But I do remember what that's like. Even that without the ember rewards would be good. As long as I can show off how much of a nerd I am lolll

DrEpoch

Dygz wrote: »

I would keep playing if we had 20+ players per match. I'd prefer 50+ or whatever it was a year ago.
Seems like the easiest thing for them to do, if it's going to be a 12 week cycle, would be to have a new map each month... and I guess new level 50 armor... and reset each month.
Leaderboards would help. Seems like that should not take a year to implement.
I mean - if you can't even get a leaderboard up and running after a year, having working Nodes is likely to take forever.

Leaderboards. Are supposedly done,

Ghoosty

cyanideinsanity wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

I'm a big believer that something should be fun in its own right, and that if you need to add rewards to get players do to a piece of content, then that content isn't fun and should be removed/changed.

This is half of why I stopped. Other half is the dead game. I don't mind playing brs now and then but I'm not a big br guy. No doubt many of us were playing to unlock things, rather than to actually play. For comparison I spent more time playing the halo online mod ElDewrito despite there being nothing to unlock because I love halo.

Sure I can unlock stuff in the br, but at the same time it quite quickly got to the point I'd rather play something else that does both.

Earlier I already explained what lead for me to quit. I do not repeat it.
I am not a big BR guy either. If it would be created by someone else independently I would not even download it to try. But I believed that this helps Intrepid to make the MMO better so I give it a try. Actually I enjoyed it. Not that much as I would pay for it, but with a little motivator, (that I will receive some stuff for the MMO,) I stayed.
This is the point what was mentioned that the content need to be fun. I agree with it, but this is not a standalone game, it is a test platform. Intrepid said many times that they do not want to improve it, just what is really must.(becasue they focust to the MMO) So if I have to live with many bugs for long time, I need an extra motivator to stay. For me this is some cosmetics and ingame currency, but also some major bug correction. If I die many times, because I have huge FPS drop, it frustrating me very much. If I try to escape from an enemy and I stuck in a non visible object I also find it too frustrating.

Nagash

Fooshyy wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

I would keep playing if we had 20+ players per match. I'd prefer 50+ or whatever it was a year ago.
Seems like the easiest thing for them to do, if it's going to be a 12 week cycle, would be to have a new map each month... and I guess new level 50 armor... and reset each month.
Leaderboards would help. Seems like that should not take a year to implement.
I mean - if you can't even get a leaderboard up and running after a year, having working Nodes is likely to take forever.

Leaderboards. Are supposedly done,

just like dwarfs

Dygz

Doesn't matter if they are "done" but they aren't in.
Same for the Divine Nodes article.
Show; not tell.

Nagash

Dygz wrote: »

Doesn't matter if they are "done" but they aren't in.
Same for the Divine Nodes article.
Show; not tell.

indeed. I will believe it when I see it

DrEpoch

i wait in anticipation. uwu

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