No Substance

sunfrog wrote: »

I think they would like to see something like this with things crossed off as they are completed.

Maybe that is what they are wanting.

To me, that seems like a really effective way to hamstring a project.

You don't get to say "Intrepid, give us stuff!" Then when they do, switch to "Not that stuff, it's useless!" You keep saying things are fluff because they don't match up to what YOU want to see. Alot of people love every bit of lore that comes out, and i love seeing the animation work being put into both characters and creatures. You also apparently ignore every question at the end of the streams, as (when they aren't repeats that make it through) they often broach into mechanics and current plans for how things will work, either in upcoming modes, or the MMO itself. Castle Siege is their goal right now, and surprise surprise, that's what gets the lions share of technical talk. Anything else is either in concept, or being switched to 3d render, or rigging for animation. And there's been a monthly skin pack for almost a year. They aren't changing it, so you might as well get over it.

Karthos

The live streams literally do what they are meant to be doing.

Giving us updates on what the studio is working on.

I understand you people need to sperg out on something, but don't go around causing drama because you're bored.

Go get a life

Mesis

I wouldn´t call this a drama.

I have seen games suceed and fail and I dont like seeing symptoms that ended in a failure with other game as an example.

Why was the director´s letter delayed? What happened to divine node?
Castle siege is apparently comming soon, surely there is enough info about that they can share.

For example the Dev Discussion is a great, if only there was some feedback from the side of the developers what they have in mind

Ventharien wrote: »

You don't get to say "Intrepid, give us stuff!" Then when they do, switch to "Not that stuff, it's useless!" You keep saying things are fluff because they don't match up to what YOU want to see. Alot of people love every bit of lore that comes out, and i love seeing the animation work being put into both characters and creatures. You also apparently ignore every question at the end of the streams, as (when they aren't repeats that make it through) they often broach into mechanics and current plans for how things will work, either in upcoming modes, or the MMO itself. Castle Siege is their goal right now, and surprise surprise, that's what gets the lions share of technical talk. Anything else is either in concept, or being switched to 3d render, or rigging for animation. And there's been a monthly skin pack for almost a year. They aren't changing it, so you might as well get over it.

You must’ve read right by my post. Art and words are fluff. Art is very easy to make and talk is very easy to put out without having much to show for it. The questions and answers at the end of the stream are just talk with nothing much to show for it. So yes, the livestream had no substance.

It’s not just that I don’t get to see what I want to see. We don’t get the updates that were promised in the March Creative Director’s Letter. I’m not making this stuff up. My problem is that they told us one thing and are doing another. If you have no idea what I’m talking about get informed and reread the March CDL.

And you can’t seriously tell me that them putting out monthly paid cosmetics can be considered substantial updates. Those have nothing to do with the development of the MMORPG. They’re paid cosmetics.... hahahaha. And they’ve been going on for much longer than a year...

Mesis wrote: »

I wouldn´t call this a drama.

I have seen games suceed and fail and I dont like seeing symptoms that ended in a failure with other game as an example.

Why was the director´s letter delayed? What happened to divine node?
Castle siege is apparently comming soon, surely there is enough info about that they can share.

For example the Dev Discussion is a great, if only there was some feedback from the side of the developers what they have in mind

Thank you for being a reasonable person.

vmangman wrote: »

You must’ve read right by my post. Art and words are fluff. Art is very easy to make and talk is very easy to put out without having much to show for it. The questions and answers at the end of the stream are just talk with nothing much to show for it. So yes, the livestream had no substance.

It’s not just that I don’t get to see what I want to see. We don’t get the updates that were promised in the March Creative Director’s Letter. I’m not making this stuff up. My problem is that they told us one thing and are doing another. If you have no idea what I’m talking about get informed and reread the March CDL.

And you can’t seriously tell me that them putting out monthly paid cosmetics can be considered substantial updates. Those have nothing to do with the development of the MMORPG. They’re paid cosmetics.... hahahaha. And they’ve been going on for much longer than a year...

Art is the foundation of LITERALLY every game you have ever played, and a solid story and universe is the fabric that keeps massive franchises going. The fact that you can say, Art is very easy to make, really invalidates any possible opinion you have on the subject.

Your exact words in an earlier post were "The Know your Nodes Series was great". That was a bunch of words too, so either words are useful or they aren't.

They have missed several marks in their revised structure of how we were to receive content, Jahlon does a nice checklist in his monthly recaps. But that is neither here nor there regarding the present assertion you are making, that they are producing nothing of value.

And though i enjoy their art and the lore tidbit we get with them, i don't consider the monthly skins major content, but you whine about them every one of your posts, and its a bit of a broken record at this point.

Wandering Mist

vmangman wrote: »

Ventharien wrote: »

You don't get to say "Intrepid, give us stuff!" Then when they do, switch to "Not that stuff, it's useless!" You keep saying things are fluff because they don't match up to what YOU want to see. Alot of people love every bit of lore that comes out, and i love seeing the animation work being put into both characters and creatures. You also apparently ignore every question at the end of the streams, as (when they aren't repeats that make it through) they often broach into mechanics and current plans for how things will work, either in upcoming modes, or the MMO itself. Castle Siege is their goal right now, and surprise surprise, that's what gets the lions share of technical talk. Anything else is either in concept, or being switched to 3d render, or rigging for animation. And there's been a monthly skin pack for almost a year. They aren't changing it, so you might as well get over it.

You must’ve read right by my post. Art and words are fluff. Art is very easy to make and talk is very easy to put out without having much to show for it. The questions and answers at the end of the stream are just talk with nothing much to show for it. So yes, the livestream had no substance.

It’s not just that I don’t get to see what I want to see. We don’t get the updates that were promised in the March Creative Director’s Letter. I’m not making this stuff up. My problem is that they told us one thing and are doing another. If you have no idea what I’m talking about get informed and reread the March CDL.

And you can’t seriously tell me that them putting out monthly paid cosmetics can be considered substantial updates. Those have nothing to do with the development of the MMORPG. They’re paid cosmetics.... hahahaha. And they’ve been going on for much longer than a year...

https://ashesofcreation.com/news/2019-03-07-creative-directors-letter

You mean this? I've just read through it again and Intrepid have delivered on what they promised - regular monthly updates on what is being worked on. In what way have they lied to us?

Ventharien wrote: »

vmangman wrote: »

You must’ve read right by my post. Art and words are fluff. Art is very easy to make and talk is very easy to put out without having much to show for it. The questions and answers at the end of the stream are just talk with nothing much to show for it. So yes, the livestream had no substance.

It’s not just that I don’t get to see what I want to see. We don’t get the updates that were promised in the March Creative Director’s Letter. I’m not making this stuff up. My problem is that they told us one thing and are doing another. If you have no idea what I’m talking about get informed and reread the March CDL.

And you can’t seriously tell me that them putting out monthly paid cosmetics can be considered substantial updates. Those have nothing to do with the development of the MMORPG. They’re paid cosmetics.... hahahaha. And they’ve been going on for much longer than a year...

Art is the foundation of LITERALLY every game you have ever played, and a solid story and universe is the fabric that keeps massive franchises going. The fact that you can say, Art is very easy to make, really invalidates any possible opinion you have on the subject.

Your exact words in an earlier post were "The Know your Nodes Series was great". That was a bunch of words too, so either words are useful or they aren't.

They have missed several marks in their revised structure of how we were to receive content, Jahlon does a nice checklist in his monthly recaps. But that is neither here nor there regarding the present assertion you are making, that they are producing nothing of value.

And though i enjoy their art and the lore tidbit we get with them, i don't consider the monthly skins major content, but you whine about them every one of your posts, and its a bit of a broken record at this point.

Actually code is LITERALLY the foundation of every game we’ve ever played. But that’s not the point. The point is that art is known to be the easiest and most flexible part of game development because for the most part it can be designed independently from everything else. Art often gets ahead of the curve compared to all other departments.

The Know Your Nodes blogs are better than just words in the livestream’s Q&A because they reveal substantial and in depth information of game mechanics that Intrepid can them build on. Answering whether you can or cannot be attacked in your free hold is cool, but it’s not the same thing as Intrepid giving us insight and details into what they’re developing.

And I don’t whine about the monthly cosmetics. I just point out that there are some trolls like you who find the need to point out that Intrepid puts out all this content in the form of paid cosmetics as if that matters at all in terms of game development.

@vmangman

I'm going to try and illustrate to you why you specifically are getting so much push back.

You say here that you aren't interested in art, with the following quote.

vmangman wrote: »

You must’ve read right by my post. Art and words are fluff.

Yet in another thread, you say the following.

vmangman wrote: »

Besides never actually getting to launch, my biggest concern with the game is that the combat and movement won’t feel good. I think the feel of those two aspects of a game can easily make or break a game.

The problem here is that how characters move is a function of character animation - and animation is art.

So essentially, on one hand you say you don't care about art, but then you turn around and say art is the most important thing to you in a game.

Add this to the earlier revelation in this thread that you think Ashes has been in development for three years, development of an MMO is linear, and yet you don't seem to want to back that up by suggesting that Intrepid had a fully staffed studio in 2016, and I honestly hope you start to see how stupid you look.

I'm actually quite sure you aren't stupid. You write well enough (I've not seen you confuse their, there or they're, nor then and than, as an example), and that is often a really good sign that someone is at least not below average intelligence.

The problem here though, at least to me, seems to be that you have come to a conclusion before you thought it through completely, and are willing to fight and argue that conclusion up until you come across a point that you simply can not argue against, at which point you just ignore it rather than admit you are wrong.

You do that here, you will get pushback. Even if your base point (we want more information) is essentially correct.

Wandering Mist wrote: »

vmangman wrote: »

Ventharien wrote: »

You don't get to say "Intrepid, give us stuff!" Then when they do, switch to "Not that stuff, it's useless!" You keep saying things are fluff because they don't match up to what YOU want to see. Alot of people love every bit of lore that comes out, and i love seeing the animation work being put into both characters and creatures. You also apparently ignore every question at the end of the streams, as (when they aren't repeats that make it through) they often broach into mechanics and current plans for how things will work, either in upcoming modes, or the MMO itself. Castle Siege is their goal right now, and surprise surprise, that's what gets the lions share of technical talk. Anything else is either in concept, or being switched to 3d render, or rigging for animation. And there's been a monthly skin pack for almost a year. They aren't changing it, so you might as well get over it.

You must’ve read right by my post. Art and words are fluff. Art is very easy to make and talk is very easy to put out without having much to show for it. The questions and answers at the end of the stream are just talk with nothing much to show for it. So yes, the livestream had no substance.

It’s not just that I don’t get to see what I want to see. We don’t get the updates that were promised in the March Creative Director’s Letter. I’m not making this stuff up. My problem is that they told us one thing and are doing another. If you have no idea what I’m talking about get informed and reread the March CDL.

And you can’t seriously tell me that them putting out monthly paid cosmetics can be considered substantial updates. Those have nothing to do with the development of the MMORPG. They’re paid cosmetics.... hahahaha. And they’ve been going on for much longer than a year...

https://ashesofcreation.com/news/2019-03-07-creative-directors-letter

You mean this? I've just read through it again and Intrepid have delivered on what they promised - regular monthly updates on what is being worked on. In what way have they lied to us?

These are quotes from the CDL.

“ With the addition of our new community team, you will begin to see new content and regular weekly updates on the progress of the MMORPG, and our journey to Alpha One”

We have not been getting WEEKLY updates.

“ As we move towards our future testing periods, we have taken your feedback regarding development updates, and moving forward we will be focused on updating you more frequently with a look into our progress on SYSTEMS AND DESIGNS. Part of what I have tasked Margaret and Sarah with is defining a Content Roadmap that highlights the project’s development and what goes on behind the scenes”
“ Moving forward, we will continue working hard on preparing for Alpha One, and giving you greater sight into the development of the SYSTEMS AND MECHANICS that go into creating what will be the greatest MMORPG”

Last time we got any substantial information into systems, designs and mechanics was the last Know Your Nodes blog which was over 6 months ago... SIX MONTHS. Everything else since then has been mostly fluff and definitely not insight into systems, designs and mechanics.

Not to mention that they even missed a self imposed CDL that’s supposed to drop every three months.

So yes, weekly updates and insight into systems, designs and mechanics have not been delivered (at least not in the last 6 months).

And the funny thing is that many of you don’t understand that I would be fine if they didn’t give us all those updates and information as long as they didn’t promise them. But Intrepid did tell us that they would deliver all those updates and information. My big issue is that Intrepid has made some statements and they have not been honest and have not upheld them.

noaani wrote: »

@vmangman

I'm going to try and illustrate to you why you specifically are getting so much push back.

You say here that you aren't interested in art, with the following quote.

vmangman wrote: »

You must’ve read right by my post. Art and words are fluff.

Yet in another thread, you say the following.

vmangman wrote: »

Besides never actually getting to launch, my biggest concern with the game is that the combat and movement won’t feel good. I think the feel of those two aspects of a game can easily make or break a game.

The problem here is that how characters move is a function of character animation - and animation is art.

So essentially, on one hand you say you don't care about art, but then you turn around and say art is the most important thing to you in a game.

Add this to the earlier revelation in this thread that you think Ashes has been in development for three years, development of an MMO is linear, and yet you don't seem to want to back that up by suggesting that Intrepid had a fully staffed studio in 2016, and I honestly hope you start to see how stupid you look.

I'm actually quite sure you aren't stupid. You write well enough (I've not seen you confuse their, there or they're, nor then and than, as an example), and that is often a really good sign that someone is at least not below average intelligence.

The problem here though, at least to me, seems to be that you have come to a conclusion before you thought it through completely, and are willing to fight and argue that conclusion up until you come across a point that you simply can not argue against, at which point you just ignore it rather than admit you are wrong.

You do that here, you will get pushback. Even if your base point (we want more information) is essentially correct.

You are twisting my words.

You’re right that it seems like I say art is fluff and that I then say that movement, combat and feel are some of the most important stuff.

But with the art we’re getting we’re not getting much insight into movement, combat and feel. It’s for the most part a bunch of creatures and monthly cosmetics. The BR is helpful to give insight into movement, combat and feel. So they have that going for them. Yet, still the majority of the updates we get are words and art (creatures and cosmetics) at least in the last 6 months.

Please read the comment above where I respond to Wandering Mist. I feel like it explains very clearly what my issue with the fluff is. Art and words are fluff compared to what they promised us and what real meaningful MMORPG development is (systems, designs, mechanics).

vmangman wrote: »

But with the art we’re getting we’re not getting much insight into movement, combat and feel. It’s for the most part a bunch of creatures and monthly cosmetics.

You realize there are people out there that feel the same about creatures and cosmetics as you feel about movement?

I personally care more about how my target moves than how I move, as I will watch my target more than I will watch myself.

This is what I mean when I say that you have a thing you want to see, and will complain until you see that one thing.

Another thing I've noticed is that you slip the word substantial in a lot when talking about updates from Intrepid - in that we don't get substantial updates from them.

They have never said that we will get substantial updates, just that we will get updates.

vmangman wrote: »

So yes, weekly updates and insight into systems, designs and mechanics have not been delivered (at least not in the last 6 months).

We were just told that they are going to make their own destruction system rather than using Unreal Chaos.

That is literally a system and mechanics update.

They don't have it to show us right now because they just spent several months looking at Unreal Chaos, seeing what it could do (or more importantly what it could not do), and then decided they could do better. Basically, they spent months making a single decision, and then as soon as that decision was made, they told us.

There is nothing at all to show from that work other than the decision to make their own destruction system, but that decision took months to make.

Honestly, what more do you want?

vmangman wrote: »

You’re right that it seems like I say art is fluff

It doesn't seem, those are your exact words.

unknown

This content has been removed.

vmangman wrote: »

Actually code is LITERALLY the foundation of every game we’ve ever played.

Which represents what now? Since it's not some programmer sitting around mixing zeros and ones to make something completely out of the blue.

Ventharien wrote: »

vmangman wrote: »

You’re right that it seems like I say art is fluff

It doesn't seem, those are your exact words.

Stop it. Art as a whole doesn’t have to be fluff if they show combat animations and the such. But the kind of art they show is fluff. A stationary dragon, however cool it looks, is just fluff. Stop twisting words and get your head out of your bum. The art they are showing is for the most part fluff.

skafftaruss wrote: »

These arses like excommunicating folks while being evasive in accounts. It's growing a small crowd. Will Steven sell out, is the big question to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCd_ngkuz4c. Much love.

Exactly.

Caeryl

vmangman wrote: »

Ventharien wrote: »

vmangman wrote: »

You’re right that it seems like I say art is fluff

It doesn't seem, those are your exact words.

Stop it. Art as a whole doesn’t have to be fluff if they show combat animations and the such. But the kind of art they show is fluff. A stationary dragon, however cool it looks, is just fluff. Stop twisting words and get your head out of your bum. The art they are showing is for the most part fluff.

A stationary dragon is the entire basis of an animated dragon. You don’t seem to have any idea how much time and skill goes into creating realistic and useable creature models. That doesn’t endear you to anyone when really it just seems like you want to complain.