Do you want "Daily Quests" if so, to what extent?

Many MMO:s have daily quests to give you a steady source of income and reputations, as well as to keep you logging in everyday. Do you want daily quests? Why/why not? If you want them, how important/impactful should they be?

Personaly I would like some form of daily quests but I want them to be interesting and relevant. The best ones for me are quests that make you go out and explore the world. This helps making the world and "older" less relevant areas feel more alive.

For me, if daily quests are present in the game, they should be for max level and they should not take more than 30 mins to complete. They should be optional and focus mostly on income. I also like profession quests.

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Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

What players don't want is to feel obligated to log in every day, such that they feel like they've missed out on the reward structure if days are skipped. Hence, Steven's answer to the Dailies question.

If people are logging on to do a daily when they wouldn't otherwise log on, that is bad game design.
Content should be available when people want it, not the other way around. This is how content works now in every medium.
This is why the Ok boomer statement. You are arguing a point of view that is outdated, and refuse to accept that it is outdated. Ok boomer is the current appropriate response to that regardless of the age of the person arguing for the outdated concept.
Now, I'm the first to argue that not all things from 15 years ago need to be improved upon, but access to content is now something that should happen when the individual player wants it, not when the content creator wants it.

Dygz

noaani wrote: »

If people are logging on to do a daily when they wouldn't otherwise log on, that is bad game design.

That's your opinion. Sure. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Dygz

Damokles wrote: »

I think a good example for dailies that require you to do them would be WoW quests. At first (BC), they were harmless. A bit of gold extra here and there, but nowadays? Topraiders have to do most of the dailies to get the chance of titanforging their armour, and upgrading their necklace...

Yep. I am not a fan of WoW Dailies.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

If people are logging on to do a daily when they wouldn't otherwise log on, that is bad game design.

That's your opinion. Sure. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's the opinion of most posters in this thread, most players in other MMO games, most video streaming services and most of their customers.
It is why the network and cable T.V. models are failing now, and why companies that have this as their traditional business model are having to diversify in to streaming services where people can watch what they want when they want, not when someone else says they can.
But hey, if you disagree that's up to you. You are very much in the minority here though. In fact, you may well be all by yourself in that opinion.

Dygz

Yeah, but consensus in this thread does not equal objective truth.
We know I’m not all by myself because the OP agrees with me. And really Caeyrl and I agree about the mechanics proposed by the Ashes devs, he just doesn’t want to label that Daily.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Yeah, but consensus in this thread does not equal objective truth.
We know I’m not all by myself because the OP agrees with me. And really Caeyrl and I agree about the mechanics proposed by the Ashes devs, he just doesn’t want to label that Daily.

Adding a mechanic that forces people to log in each day or hey miss out on a piece of content is not good game design.
Not any more.
If you want to claim that having a game design like this is objectively better than not having a game design like this, then you need to back that up with a reason.

Dygz

(Objectively better than what?)

I haven't suggested that Ashes should have a mechanic that forces people to log in each day or miss out on a piece of content. Wiz101 Dailies don't do that. Apoc Dailies don't do that. And Ashes Dailies won't force people to log in each day or miss out on a piece of content.
NWO Dailies are designed in such a way that makes players feel obligated to log in each day or reset the reward structure to Day 1 - missing a day literally penalizes players pursuing the Daily Reward schedule.
But, Dailies don't have to be designed like that.
(Last time I tried WoW Dailies was probably 8 years ago - all I remember about them is I was not a fan.)
Features that provide MMORPG players who have less than 30 minutes to play with treats to entice them to play and feel significantly rewarded without feeling obligated to play is good game design. It is perfectly fine to encourage players to participate in something they wouldn't normally do otherwise. It's not OK to make players feel obligated to do something they wouldn't normally do. Getting players to log in on weekdays even just for 20 minutes is better than having a ghosttown on weekdays because parents and adults with jobs don't have 30 minutes to play on weekdays. Ashes devs are going to implement quests for such players - and those quests are going to have rewards that are more than what can be achieved by just farming mobs without a quest. Those rewards don't necessarily have to be on par with the rewards gained from regular quests - it can be fine to have alternative rewards for the Daily Rewards structure, like monster coins, cosmetics, embers, etc.
We'll have to what the devs actually implement. They could do a great job or they could muck it up.
But, if it's similar to the Apoc Dailies, the MMORPG Dailies should be fine.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

(Objectively better than what?)

Any system in which players want to play a game (and thus pay for said game), but feel no obligation from the game itself to log in on any specific day is objectively better than any system in which players feel like the game is requiring them to log in on any specific day (let alone every day), or fear missing out on content.
I've said it many times here, if I want to take my significant other out for dinner one night, it is objectively bad game design if I feel like I would then miss out on something in game that I am unable to simply do the next day.
That is what daily quests are - if you don't do them today, then they are gone.
Some games have used a system where you do an activity each day for x number of days, but this usuallyhas the same pitfall - if you miss a day, you are a day behind. This type of thing can work ok if the system is designed with redundant days in it though (do this task once per day, 5 times over the course of one week). This is the least worst way I have seen daily quests being added to a game in the last 8 years or so, but it isn't a fit for Ashes.
A far better design is to provide players with long term goals, and don't put artificial blocks in their way. This way, players will want to log in when they can, but need not feel punished or left behind if they have a day off.

Dygz

Um. Games should not make a player feel obligated to play. Games should make people feel a desire to play.
Traditionally RPGs take a considerable amount of time to make significant progress - hence why initially quests in MMORPGs were designed for hardcore time players. But at that time, quite a lot of their playerbase were under under 22 - Steven being a prime example. 22+ years later, the majority of the MMORPG fanbase is over the age of 22 with only casual time on weekdays - hence, devs are going to need to include quests for casual time players.
The way Wiz101 Daily quests are designed, you can take your significant other out for dinner and still complete the Daily. And, even if you have to miss a Daily, the reward is still waiting for you the next day.
If you were on the Day 4 reward Monday night when you went out for dinner, you will still be on the Day 4 reward when you log in on Thursday. You don't miss out on anything in the game just because you went out to dinner. There is no feeling of obligation to log in, rather, you feel confidence that any day you log in, there is a mission you can pick up and complete quickly and easily once per day -within 10-20 minutes) and there will be some reward for it - a few crowns (embers), a housing decoration, some PvP Arena tickets, etc.
"If you miss out on them today, they are gone" is not how Dailies work in Wiz101. That's what I keep telling you.
There is no such thing as missing a day and being behind with Wiz101 Dailies. Also, Wiz101 Dailies include long term goals. Like I said, if I complete 2 cycles of the Daily Reward Calendar (15 Days per cycle), I will have 100 crowns (embers). I can then use those embers to purchase stuff - in this case it's just about enough for one Snack Pack...which is great because the primary thing I'm doing in that game is training pets - and, though 100 crowns is less than pennies on the dollar when I spent 13K crowns on pets, it's still better than nothing... it's a bonus.
No Man's Sky introduced Dailies earlier this year. The rewards in that game were cosmetic tokens/coins. We get xx amount for completing the Daily and then we can use those to purchase things similar to what's available in Apoc - emotes, cosmetic gear, and house decorations (coming to Apoc eventually along with pet and mount skins), etc. In that game, the quest is given has a hail from an alien, we didn't have to travel to a quest giver - so that could be construed as "spontaneous, I suppose. It's a mission we can complete in 10-20 minutes once per day and we receive cosmetics currency as a reward. You don't miss out on anything by skipping a day. And the rewards are not competitive with other players. There are no artificial blocks. And there is no feeling of punishment for skipping a day or several days. As I've stated repeatedly.
NWO Dailies design does make people feel punished for missing a day. I think that's true for WoW as well. But, that is not inherent in Daily Quest design. Dailies can be, and have been, designed and implemented without those punitive elements. And the Ashes devs are not planning to include that in theirs.
Which is precisely why I keep saying, it all depends on how the Daily mechanic is designed. Is it designed with punitive measure for skipping a day or not? Are the rewards must-haves or are they just minor bonuses - actual gear and abilities or just cosmetics and emotes?
Just because all the games with Dailies that you have played have had crappy designs for the Daily mechanic doesn't mean that all games with Dailies have a crappy design for their Daily mechanic.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Um. Games should not make a player feel obligated to play. Games should make people feel a desire to play.

Agreed.
And any mechanic that sees a piece of content available for just one day, or an aspect of progress that can't be caught up the next day, does exactly this.
In order to avoid this, any and all content needs to be able to be done the following day at absolutely no detriment to the player - real or perceived.
If there is a piece of content available for me to do today, but that I can also do tomorrow (as is necessary as per the above) then it by definition is not a daily task.

Dygz

noaani wrote: »

Any mechanic that sees a piece of content available for just one day, or an aspect of progress that can't be caught up the next day, does exactly this.
In order to avoid this, any and all content needs to be able to be done the following day at absolutely no detriment to the player - real or perceived.
If there is a piece of content available for me to do today, but that I can also do tomorrow (as is necessary as per the above) then it by definition is not a daily task.

It's a Daily task because that type of task can only be done once per 24 hour period.
In Ashes, it will be common that we cannot do all of the content - the content will dynamically change and will not always be available - that's not something that will be restricted to Dailies.
In Wiz101, what changes day to day for the Daily Quests is the 1 mob that needs to be killed. Monday, it might be "Go to Colossus Blvd and kill one Cyclops." Tuesday it might be "Go to Firecat Alley and kill one Fire Elf." It doesn't matter when I do the Daily - if I'm on Day 4 of the Daily Rewards Calendar (10 Crowns), I remain on Day 4 until I do a Daily. That could be Monday, it could be Tuesday, it could be a month from now. It's no different in that respect than any other quest. As with any quest, I can complete the quest on Monday or Tuesday or a month from now, there is no feeling of detriment to the player just for skipping a day or several days. Wiz101 Dailies missions seem to be on some kind of rotation - I dunno if the missions repeat every week or every two weeks.
In Apoc, there are two Dailies per day. The reward for each is always 2K xp. The specific quests offered change each day. Again, they are on some kind of rotation. They repeat in some fashion every week or two weeks - whatever. There is no feeling of, "OMG! I missed my Dailies!" Sometimes, the Dailies that role through are not tasks I want to do, so I skip both of them. Sometimes, I skip one. Sometimes, I complete both during one match. Sometimes, I only log in and complete one Daily. Sometimes, I log in and complete both Dailies and one or several Weeklies. All depends on how much time I have and whether the tasks offered are tasks I will enjoy attempting. If the tasks offered on Monday aren't something I want to do, I can just wait til the next day...it is highly likely that the next day there will be at least one Daily that I enjoy. Which is also great because sometimes I have completed all the Weeklies I enjoy doing and I'm stuck with the Weeklies I'm never going to work on... there will be at least a few days with Dailies I enjoy.
In NMS, there is one Daily per day. The type of mission it is changes from day to day, similar to Apoc: might be a kill mission one day, might be a fetch mission the next day. But, I'm not missing out on anything significant by skipping a day. Killing a wolf on Wednesday instead of a boar on Monday is not missing out on anything. And I get just as many cosmetic credits as I will from any Daily Mission. Whenever I have the credits I need to buy the cosmetic I want, I buy the cosmetic I want. There is no detriment to the player for missing a day.

Tatiana

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, I do not want daily chores. I am more open to weekly's so long as they aren't a massive pain to get done, but definitely not dailies as I would rather resources put into dailies be used elsewhere in the game.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

It's a Daily task because that type of task can only be done once per 24 hour period.

Exactly.
If I miss out on it today, there will be another one tomorrow that I could do, but that one tomorrow would be available to me regardless of whether I did todays or not. So, if I miss todays, that means in a 2 day period I am only going to do one, and there is no more available to me.
Sure, regular content in Ashes will change, but if I miss a day of running that dungeon today and then by tomorrow it gets changed for a different one I am then able to run that different one twice. I am able to make up for the fact that I spent time out of the game.
This is the key thing any content need to have - if I don't do it today, I should not be at a disadvantage. I can see there being a disadvantage after two or three days, for sure, but not after one - that is objectively bad game design.

Dygz

If you don't do the Daily one day or many days, you won't be at a disadvantage. The only advantage these Dailies provide is that people who only have 10-20 minutes to play have one or two quests per day that they can easily complete if they want to as opposed to not having any quest that can be easily completed in 10-20 minutes. You keep talking about disadvantage where no disadvantage exists.
Making up for the fact that you spent time out of the game is not even a thing.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

If you don't do the Daily one day or many days, you won't be at a disadvantage. The only advantage these Dailies provide is that people who only have 10-20 minutes to play have one or two quests per day that they can easily complete if they want to as opposed to not having any quest that can be easily completed in 10-20 minutes. You keep talking about disadvantage where no disadvantage exists.
Making up for the fact that you spent time out of the game is not even a thing.

I'm not (and have never) said that there is no place for 10 - 20 minute content blocks.
What I am saying is that there is literally no reason why those content blocks need to be applied to a daily mechanic.
It isn't the content that is up for debate, it is the limit. In all your posts on the topic, you completely gloss over any notion of trying to explain why these types of content need this artificial block placed on them.
They don't need it, that is what is up for debate. That is ALL that is up for debate.
If you want to carry on the debate, at least make a cursory attempt at addressing that point, for a change - not that I expect you to, the only reason you've avoided attempting to address that point (the only point) is because you don't have a reaponse to it, and you are too stubborn to admit you are wrong.

Dygz

That, again, is your poor reading comprehension. I addressed that point 4 days ago on Page 4.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

That, again, is your poor reading comprehension. I addressed that point 4 days ago on Page 4.

No you didn't.
If you think you did, quote the relevent portion of your post so I don't have to go back and sift through all the drivel you wrote about games that have no applicable relevence to Ashes.

Dygz

Yes. I absolutely did. If you don't want to sift through the drivel - that's on you.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Yes. I absolutely did. If you don't want to sift through the drivel - that's on you.

You can't post that much bullshit that has no relevence and expect anyone to actually read it.
I'm just assuming you can't find it either - since it isn't there.
Edit to add; the notion of trying to look through that pile of trash - largely about a children's game that has zero relevence here - is unappealing enough by itself. The notion of doing that to try and find something you may consider a response to the question at hand (as opposed to something others would consider as such) is laughable.

Dygz

Wiz101 is actually a family game; not a children's game.
One of your problems is that you spend too much assuming things that you can't back up.
Just about everything you post is laughable... and absurd. I told you where to find the quotes, so I obviously know where they are. I'm done discussing this with you. Have fun!

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