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noaani wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

Not taking the bait m8.
China?
India?

Zambia?
Ghana?

Look at the quality of life of the examples you gave as solid politics.
Those ppl suffer big time.

What, just because you don't agree with some aspects of their way of life or form of government?

Fact is, they are improving. That is what you asked for.

Ghana and Zambia right now have the quality of life the average person in the west had a just prior to the first World War, maybe a bit better. China and India are far superior to what we had even 50 years ago. All four of these countries are working on improving things, and doing a successful job at it.

As I said though, these things take decades at best, so I'm not sure what more you want other than examples of countries that are working on it - much as the west is still working on it (well, other than the US, which for some reason think are at the pinnacle already).

If you want an example of countries that found some political magic potion that instantly turned their country from a low income, poverty stricken hopeless mess into a high income country, then that is obviously not realistic.

On the other hand, if you are looking for examples of countries that are in the process of working towards improving their situation from low income up to as high as they can manage, then I have given you four already.

If you want an example of a country that has moved itself up to the high income bracket recently, then I believe Panama is the most recent (2018 iirc).

If you want examples of countries that have already completed this process, well, other than the US who are misguided on this notion (at least at the Presidential level), it doesn't exist, as every country is still working on trying to improve it's conditions.

Even places like North Korea are trying to improve things. They aren't doing it in a way that is agreeable to the majority in the west, but that doesn't mean they aren't trying to improve things in their own way.

Too many paragraphs mate. Non of them addressed what I said.

Agree with some aspects of live?
What are you talking about? The people of india and chine live in a terrible condition except for a very small part of their massive population.
Politics failed the people.

As for the african states they all require to seek help from western politics, and tic off what the westerners ask them to do.
Their politicians arent governing. Politics failed.

George_Black

Wont even menti9n that china and india arent vulnerable.

Only the developed dictate terms with friendly language, like the one you use in your paragraphs.
"Please obey, or no more financisl aid.
If you dont we will also apply sanctions.
There arent any real politics at play. The strong dictate.
Those that want to be safeguarded give their rights to the stronger "friends"

George_Black

Assets that should be owned by natives are owned by businesses of the strongest developed countries.
Houses are owned by the richest interested, in my country at least there arent any Zambia landowners.
They are europeans, chine and american.

Politics.
UK left EU, Scotland welcome to join.
Catalonia wants independance, but EU would never hurt a member.
Hong Kong is Chinese, but the Westerners tell chine who they dont like much "give independance to HK".
Cyrpus is in EU, occupied by Turkey.

Syria is a mess because the west wanted to prevent Iran from gaining control, but the westerners didnt help the polulation.
Politics.
Usa guarded the oil fields.
Turkey gets most of the refugees.
EU closes boarders.
Politics

George_Black

Politics.
The developed want Green policies, and the undeveloped have to sign them.

I want to stay on this threads topic.
Do you know what makes me rage?

Fake behaviour.

I wish the strong countries would come out and say: look, we make the rules. We are your employers, we are your landowners and we are your scientists.
We also have stronger armies.
Follow the plan and you might live a bit better and we the strong will be free to holiday in your beautiful countries and we will hire only the very smartest of you in our countries. Your development, your history and way of life "closed on Sundays, working from 6-2 then siesta snd then eork from 3 till 10", silly religions. We dont care.

If you dont like it, no more trade deals and if you live near neightbours who would like to change their boarders and take some cities of yours, deal with them yourself.

But instead we have politics.
The are of appearing peqceful, respectful and undestanding.
Fake smiles, handshakes and paragraphs. The good guys.
Not like those other few countries that are not our friends but they have strong armies and economic structure. They are communists, they are, drug dealers, they are extremists, they are lazy, they are this and that.
Politics.

The strong will always dictate until they arent strong anymore.
Chieftains.
Kings.
Emperors
Lords.
Politicians.
Business
Internet
You name it.

Truth and solidarity to whats right and whats wrong will never work.

So some in EU think it's all good. Others wanna leave, the south is lazy, the east is right wings and the north keeps making business as usual.

But dont tell me that vulnerable countries are sovereign thanks to good politics.
Thry are vassal states.

Noaani

George Black wrote: »

"Please obey, or no more financisl aid.

You have a very bleak outlook of world politics, and a somewhat incorrect one.

There are only two countries that dictate terms of aid offered - the US and China - and even then it is only sometimes. There are 32 other countries that offer aid to others without those strings attached.

George Black wrote: »

Too many paragraphs mate. Non of them addressed what I said.

I'm not sure how you can make this claim.

You asked for "an example of a vulnerable country achieving prosperity with the use of politics, successfully avoiding being drained by it's stronger "friends/allies".

China is without a doubt an example of that. It was extremely vulnerable in the 1950's, and also for the 150 years prior to that (China had some units fighting in what would become World War 2 using crossbows - if that doesn't show how vulnerable they were, nothing will).

There have been massive periods of nationwide starvation since then, and China was a major recipient of international aid.

Now though, no one messes with China. It has the strongest manufacturing of any nation in history. It donates more to international aid now than any other country in history as well (in absolute terms, at least). China has just recently had the largest movement of population from poverty to the working class in history, and also the largest movement of people from the working class to the middle class in history.

How you can claim this does not fit your original request is beyond me.

As I said, China has some things those of us in the West don't much like, but there is absolutely no denying that the Chinese today are better off than their parents were, and their parents were better off than their grandparents were.

Can you really make the claim that a government is failing people, if those people are better off than their parents and grandparents were?

Also, if China's politics are failing their people, can you tell me which two weeks your countries government tells all workplaces to shut down for so the population can go home to their parents for that period?

Because China do that every year.

Damokles

noaani wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

"Please obey, or no more financisl aid.

You have a very bleak outlook of world politics, and a somewhat incorrect one.

There are only two countries that dictate terms of aid offered - the US and China - and even then it is only sometimes. There are 32 other countries that offer aid to others without those strings attached.

George Black wrote: »

Too many paragraphs mate. Non of them addressed what I said.

I'm not sure how you can make this claim.

You asked for "an example of a vulnerable country achieving prosperity with the use of politics, successfully avoiding being drained by it's stronger "friends/allies".

China is without a doubt an example of that. It was extremely vulnerable in the 1950's, and also for the 150 years prior to that (China had some units fighting in what would become World War 2 using crossbows - if that doesn't show how vulnerable they were, nothing will).

There have been massive periods of nationwide starvation since then, and China was a major recipient of international aid.

Now though, no one messes with China. It has the strongest manufacturing of any nation in history. It donates more to international aid now than any other country in history as well (in absolute terms, at least). China has just recently had the largest movement of population from poverty to the working class in history, and also the largest movement of people from the working class to the middle class in history.

How you can claim this does not fit your original request is beyond me.

As I said, China has some things those of us in the West don't much like, but there is absolutely no denying that the Chinese today are better off than their parents were, and their parents were better off than their grandparents were.

Can you really make the claim that a government is failing people, if those people are better off than their parents and grandparents were?

Also, if China's politics are failing their people, can you tell me which two weeks your countries government tells all workplaces to shut down for so the population can go home to their parents for that period?

Because China do that every year.

1. China "lets" people visit their family for two weeks on new years, because they would have revolts otherwise.
2. China has a "pork reserve", just because people would revolt if they didnt get to eat pork (it was once a new years tradition, and the older generation sees eating pork as a sign of prosperity)
3. China managed to uplift that many people because they changed the definition of poor family in their country. Most of the working class is living from hand to mouth.
4. China is harvesting organs from minority groups like the muslim uyghurs.
5. China is actively invested in the human slave trade.
6. China is actively suppressing minority groups through force.
7. China is so corrupt that you wont believe it... just a few years ago, there were countless storagefacilities found that still held relief resources from other countries that were meant to go to those in need.
8. The cases, of national starvation were because the chinese leadership implemented massive agricultural reforms that nearly killed them all. After they took them back, the farmers managed to save them and the government took all the credit. (They killed all the sparrows, but then got a locust epidemic for example)
9. People have to state their ancestry on their personal documents (If they are ming chinese, or a minority), which leads to massive racism in the workforce.
10. China is building ghost cities, that fall apart after 3 year (no joke)
11. The chinese one child policy lead to forced apbortions and trauma. This in turn lead to a current male-female ration of around 3:1. Women are now encouraged to have as mqny children as possible. (The reason for the ratio, is because female babies were killed by their parents many times, because a son is expected to care for his parents when they are old)

There are many, many, MANY things wrong in china. It is no coincident that china is not a first world country.
There are some really good youtube chanels that show you how china really is.

China Uncensored
Laowhy86
Serpentza

Noaani

Damokles wrote: »

There are many, many, MANY things wrong in china.

I never said there wasn't.

In fact, I'm fairly sure I said there were.

However, the original question never asked for an example of a country that doesn't have problems (which there are none of), it simply asked for "an example of a vulnerable country achieving prosperity with the use of politics, successfully avoiding being drained by it's stronger "friends/allies", which I provided.

If the person that asked the question wanted something other than what was asked for, then that is on them, not me.

However, I do want to go through your points, as you have taken the time to make them.

1, revolt is actually more likely with two weeks than it would be with one week (people gather together away from government representatives more during this time than any other time), yet the government still gives two weeks. No other country offers up this much consecutive holiday time for it's citizens, yet other countries are much closer to revolt.

2, many countries have food stores of various types - going all the way back to Rome having grain stores. I can't see how this could be considered a bad thing at all.

3, China doesn't define who is and is not poor, either in China or outside of China. There is a definition that is applied worldwide. I've specifically been using absolute poverty terms as defined and monitored by the World Bank, as I consider them to be the most accurate primary source available.

4, there is no solid evidence of this at a governmental level (that is not to say it isn't happening). However, it does happen in China at at least some level (as well as other countries), and the Chinese government is not doing much to address it.

5, as are many other countries.

6, as are many other countries. I can't think of a single country in history that has not done this though. I'm not saying it's ok, just that literally every other country has done this.

7, yes, it is. I come from one of the least corrupt countries though, so to me, the US is corrupt as well. To me, even the lobby industry seems like a form of corruption, yet it is ingrained in American politics. No offence to any Americans reading.

8, indeed. Government leaders from generations ago made mistakes, and now things are better than they were. Is this not progress?

9, again, I can't name a single country where there is not at least some form of racism in the workforce. Still not saying it is ok, I'm just saying you can't judge China for something if literally everyone else does it too.

10, their money, their resources.

11, the biggest issue with the one child policy is that they will reach a point in time where the retired people outnumber those working. Also, for the record, according to the CIA, the ratio in China is actually 1.06 males to every 1 female. Now, to be fair, the ratio of 0-14 year olds is slightly different at 1.15:1, but this is still a far cry from 3:1. It is also worth noting that the ratio in China remains somewhat balanced through all age groups.

Now, if you really want to get in to it, you should look at Qatar. They have an over all ratio of 3.41:1, which is obviously bad. However, they have a ratio among 0-14 year olds of 1.03:1 which is fairly typical, yet the ratio of people aged 25 - 54 is a staggering 4.91:1.

Now, I'm not saying China are the best country in the world (points 4, 5 and 6 make it abundantly clear that they are not - and I have never made the suggestion otherwise). All I've been saying about it is that it fits the definition that was asked for - something that I think is indisputable based on what the original request was.

However, rather than looking at China as the great evil nation that many do, people should perhaps ask what is happening to females aged between 15 and 24 in Qatar...

Nagash

Damokles wrote: »

Varkun wrote: »

Damokles wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

Varkun wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

So just wanted to say I hate lag

Hate is an ugly word, but I will forgive you because we all hate lag.

I was going to say despise but that felt to strong

You despise the dude who eats icecream like an idiot and then goes around touching things.
You hate the guy who throws icecream at other people (including you) and then kicks a dog.

How does one eat ice cream like an idiot?

With it dripping all over his hand and smeared into the lpwer half of his face.

The number of times I see that on holiday *shudders*

voidshadow

Yo i'm a poli sci major but why the fish people talking about politics on a game thread?
Im angry about real world bull shit invading my safe haven

Damokles

voidshadow wrote: »

Yo i'm a poli sci major but why the fish people talking about politics on a game thread?
Im angry about real world bull shit invading my safe haven

Do you know the saying: "Well, that escalated quickly." ?
These forums are exactly like that.

Plateau

I've given up. Y'all can talk about whatever you want. At least I'm learning something... probably. I don't care enough to check sources.

Noaani

Damokles wrote: »

voidshadow wrote: »

Yo i'm a poli sci major but why the fish people talking about politics on a game thread?
Im angry about real world bull shit invading my safe haven

Do you know the saying: "Well, that escalated quickly." ?
These forums are exactly like that.

Only when I'm involved...

Morashtak

I'm Sick, Sick and Tired, I Tell You, That There Is Currency-ism In This Game! Only Gold Pieces, I Hear! Won't Anyone Think Of The Other Metals! They Are Currency Too!

What about these other worthy coins? Will they just be forgotten about like so many mediocre pub sandwiches?!

Platinum Plates
Gold Orbs
Silver Nobles
Copper Commons
Bronze Zee's
Brass Bits
Iron Drabs

All Coins Matter!

Nagash

Morashtak wrote: »

I'm Sick, Sick and Tired, I Tell You, That There Is Currency-ism In This Game! Only Gold Pieces, I Hear! Won't Anyone Think Of The Other Metals! They Are Currency Too!

What about these other worthy coins? Will they just be forgotten about like so many mediocre pub sandwiches?!

Platinum Plates
Gold Orbs
Silver Nobles
Copper Commons
Bronze Zee's
Brass Bits
Iron Drabs

All Coins Matter!

What about Souls?

Damokles

Morashtak wrote: »

I'm Sick, Sick and Tired, I Tell You, That There Is Currency-ism In This Game! Only Gold Pieces, I Hear! Won't Anyone Think Of The Other Metals! They Are Currency Too!

What about these other worthy coins? Will they just be forgotten about like so many mediocre pub sandwiches?!

Platinum Plates
Gold Orbs
Silver Nobles
Copper Commons
Bronze Zee's
Brass Bits
Iron Drabs

All Coins Matter!

I only trade in pure Spice.

Nagash

Damokles wrote: »

Morashtak wrote: »

I'm Sick, Sick and Tired, I Tell You, That There Is Currency-ism In This Game! Only Gold Pieces, I Hear! Won't Anyone Think Of The Other Metals! They Are Currency Too!

What about these other worthy coins? Will they just be forgotten about like so many mediocre pub sandwiches?!

Platinum Plates
Gold Orbs
Silver Nobles
Copper Commons
Bronze Zee's
Brass Bits
Iron Drabs

All Coins Matter!

I only trade in pure Spice.

He who controls the spice controls the universe

voidshadow

FUCK TOM NOOK. SOMEONE MAKE AN ANIMAL CROSSING MOD THAT ALLOWS ME TO KILL THAT CAPITALIST SON OF A BITCH RACCOON.

scotty

voidshadow

WHEN THERE'S AN UNANNOUNCED NINTENDO DIRECT AND IT HAS NO INFORMATION ON THE NEW ZELDA

At least we're getting kings bounty 2 and bravely 2

Hexcat

Ok here I go...
I'm SICK of people BITCHING around about the development of Ashes of Creation!!!!
LOTS of the comments I see in facebook,. youtube, twitter, instagram etc etc are STUPID people complaining about how much this game has taken to develop and I'm just TIRED of it, we in Mexico have a phrase that can be translated as "these are not enchiladas", this means people have to understand that the creation of an MMORPG is not something simple that takes 30 minutes with an easy recipe, and now that we have ALPHA 1 here the first thing that people do is come and say "Ugh those animations are horrible", really? Really?! REALLY???!!!
ITS EFFING ALPHA 1, OF COURSE ITS GONNA BE ROUGH AROUND THE EDGES FOR FUCK SAKE!!!
ITS NOT A FINISHED PRODUCT!!!

Maybe i can excuse some of the people who invested in the kickstarter but I WON´T
Wanna know why? because i knew for sure that there will still people demanding a game even if all the money was from a private income
Want an example???!!! Just go and watch the post and videos of the development of The Lord Of The Rings; Battle For Middle Earth Reforged, literally the team behind it is doing all the work WITHOUT PAYMENT, just donations from anyone who wants to cooperate and even in that situation there are dumb ass guys that go on the post to say stupid stuff like "ugh, Star Citizen is gonna come out before this rework"
GO TO HELL!!!
...
...
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phew, that was nice

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