Mentoring Programs

Jahlon said

Isn't the gear you get by clearing the dungeon enough of a reward for PvE?

Well purpose of post was player developement not necessarily rewards. But see how title could be misleading.
But if A system like Warforged Gear that WoW had. (Do not know if they still have it.) was implemented And if player performance as a group and individually affected the chance of getting Ashes of Creations lets say Flameforged Gear then yes it could work just using the gear.

Now in another post I said that Google and Forums is not enough for people to get raid ready. Maybe part of the reason for that is information is scattered abroad and it is like fishing in a really big pond hoping you catch something. Personally When I Watch videos or read forums have noticed I have to go through a lot of videos and lots of reading to get useful information. I researched key bindings for a long time to find out my set up did not matter to much cause I have all my bindings on my mouse. The problem with all the vidoes and post that I watched and read is they basically t tell you how they personally key bind. Not how to key bind.

But if Forums had real specific categories. Like place for people to post about keybindings. instead of broad categories like Raiding, PvP then it would be easier for people to find helpful information faster. Thing about keybindings lots people say that it is personal preference, but it is more like personal needs. For example keybindings for healers in 16 man raids have different needs than healer in 3v3 or let say just Dps vs Tank. So When a player posts about keybindings there should be fields to fill in. LIke classes played, mouse used keyboard used type of content that player does the most and so on.

Forums could also be use to post information about player development like getting raid ready but beit a lot easier if steps for doing would be in a Category like Raiding Fundamentals. My recommnedation is to get with people that are experts at it already (good raid leaders) probably notice them saying similar things and having similar problems and post critical information out of all the information gather.

One way to develope muscle memory is to make a mini game out of abilities. Now this idea came from a old game on play station 2 called Jak II In that game Xs and circles and squares and triangles and you would have to push the respective buttons. So same thing could be done with the icons for the individual class abilities. So you would have a target dummy targeted (two or more if practicing changing targets) and Icons would appear over there head telling you what ability to use next. Abilites would not have cooldowns of course. That the really simple version of the game. But could be waves of little demonic bunnies you have to kill that come towards you faster and faster as you go along.

Another thing you might want to look at is A raid leadership development program. Maybe they are not enough raid leaders out there. No suggestions there never been a raid leader.

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Comments

consultant

Another thing that could be done to help player develop their skills Is to have progressive difficulty in the dungeouns. If you have all the dungeouns at same difficulty at max level then people will just play at that level. As alreadyh mentioned there should be some challenging dungeouns but. Seems to be a huge gap between raids and dungeouns. This actually works really well in League of Legends. You have various degrees of AI. Play against AI at intermediate level AI and at really low levels like 10 and below we end up losing cause they did not do begginer bots first.

So if the dungeoun mechanis graudally approach raid mechanics then the learning curb will not be so steep per say.

Wandering Mist

consultant wrote: »

Another thing that could be done to help player develop their skills Is to have progressive difficulty in the dungeouns. If you have all the dungeouns at same difficulty at max level then people will just play at that level. As alreadyh mentioned there should be some challenging dungeouns but. Seems to be a huge gap between raids and dungeouns. This actually works really well in League of Legends. You have various degrees of AI. Play against AI at intermediate level AI and at really low levels like 10 and below we end up losing cause they did not do begginer bots first.

So if the dungeoun mechanis graudally approach raid mechanics then the learning curb will not be so steep per say.

This is more a problem of levels and gear than mechanics. When you are levelling up in an mmorpg, if you find a piece of content too hard all you have to do is level up your character a bit and the challenge suddenly becomes trivial. Because of this a lot of players get used to going into dungeons over-levelled and over-geared. When these players hit max level they are forced to go into raids without being over-geared and can't handle it.

Unless you go out of your way to enter low level dungeons under-geared you won't be prepared for it when you reach max level.

Noaani

consultant wrote: »

Another thing that could be done to help player develop their skills Is to have progressive difficulty in the dungeouns. If you have all the dungeouns at same difficulty at max level then people will just play at that level. As alreadyh mentioned there should be some challenging dungeouns but. Seems to be a huge gap between raids and dungeouns. This actually works really well in League of Legends. You have various degrees of AI. Play against AI at intermediate level AI and at really low levels like 10 and below we end up losing cause they did not do begginer bots first.

So if the dungeoun mechanis graudally approach raid mechanics then the learning curb will not be so steep per say.

In almost every game I've ever played, the hardest group content is harder than the easiest raid content (and rewards better a well).

The problem isn't that there is a gap between group and raid content in terms of difficulty, the problem is that people don't want to do things that they perceive as hard, yet they want the rewards from it.

For the most part, this content isn't hard because of some gear requirement, it is hard because of the coordination needed.

You can't really say that games should put in hard group content so group based players have content to use as a stepping stone between group and raid content, when many games already have group content that is designed to fill this role, and group based players largely ignore it.

consultant

Was thinking about how people have pets like falcons and dogs so when someone is taking raid and dungeoun mechanics the dog would bark and falcon would awk to let them know that they are taking unecessary damage. So pet trains toon to avoid damage.

Wandering Mist

consultant wrote: »

Was thinking about how people have pets like falcons and dogs so when someone is taking raid and dungeoun mechanics the dog would bark and falcon would awk to let them know that they are taking unecessary damage. So pet trains toon to avoid damage.

I fear we're going round and round in circles here but this isn't going to magically make players better to the point where they don't stand in things they shouldn't.

Plateau

If there has to be an annoying companion telling me what to do all the time, I would like for it to be a cute dog or falcon though. As long as it's not too annoying/constant/obvious. Just like, if you keep messing up a mechanic, eventually your little birdo friend flies to the safe spot and bounces around while looking at you. And when you stop dying all the time, he can relax and stop showing you the way.

I dunno, it's not a perfect idea, but it's workable. Maybe just for tutorials. I'll root for any idea with cute doggos though.

Noaani

leonerdo wrote: »

Maybe just for tutorials.

Any content that has something like that in it would feel like a tutorial.

My concern is that if it is in the whole game, then the whole game would feel like a tutorial. People like myself would finish that tutorial, and then wonder where the actual game is.

consultant

Well I am just presenting ideas no point in going into actuall game mechanics of how often or options to make it optional and so on think Devs are smart enough to figure all that out. I used to do that a lot, but some of the gents and ladies working on this project have a lot of experience making games Plus there other things to consider, like that might be just to taxing on the engine.

On top of all that game is not out yet so we are in the dark about a lot of things. Ashes of Creation could just decide not have mentoring programs so that players could have a sense of discovery as they learn to play the game. Huge draw back about effective mentoring programs is well toons could go right through all of the content really quickly. There is a lot of things to discuss and consider.

But let me share another short story, was part of a guild were people would get kicked from normal dungeouns and some how they believed they were to hard for them. At the time I had mostly raid gear and in WoW the floor is so far from the ceiling that it meant I was doing more than twice dps required for normal dungeouns. So we made a guild group and basically carried them through normal dungeouns and so they could not get kicked. (not much of a carry just normal dungeouns). Well they ended up going on to Herioc raiding. It was just a matter of teaching them how to do it.

But personally do not have time to teach every player how to raid so think there should be standardized system in place for people that want to pursue raiding,

Raiding requirements are:

Well for this game lets say 25 keybindings and let say 1 second global cooldown comes out to 12 wpm at lets say 97% accuracy. Right? Point of this not to be thinking about lets say were the letter T is when typing the word the so mind can be focused and raid mechanis.

Raid awareness. Same amount of awareness that is needed to drive a car IRL of course there are lots of people that do not pay attention when they drive but you get the idea.

Most raids mechincs involve changing targets or moving your toon to certain location, There are some other raid mechinics that require jumping at certain times and interaccting with environment. But mostly just changing targets and moving your toon around.

Ounce again just talking about finishing a normal raid.

While there are no magical solutions for every one But since everyone basically has to learn the same things to raid a practical solution can be created for most people.

Noaani

consultant wrote: »

While there are no magical solutions for every one But since everyone basically has to learn the same things to raid a practical solution can be created for most people.

That practical solution is the content itself.

People with no raiding experience should not be going out and forming a raiding guild with other people with no raiding experience, they should be joining an existing guild.

Existing guilds that are not at the top end (and even some that are) understand and accept that they will have to teach new recruits a few things, even if that player has raided in the past. In most games (WoW is the only exclusion here that I know of), the guild will have to teach the new recruit how that guild takes on each encounter, even if the new recruit has killed that encounter in another guild.

If that new recruit hasn't done any raiding, then the guild understands that there is a little more to teach. However, that additional teaching won't take up much more time than the time it takes to teach a new recruit that has killed the encounter in question how your guild takes it on.

Basically, you seem to have a solution here without a problem.

mcstackerson

They have already been talking about a Mentor program so we know that they at least plan on having one.

Ravudha

mcstackerson wrote: »

They have already been talking about a Mentor program so we know that they at least plan on having one.

That's a different kind of mentor program though.

@consultant You touched on a very important factor: player confidence. Personally, I feel the levelling process is where players should gain confidence in failing and learning so that they believe they can at least try more difficult content later on and take the initiative to do that by themselves.

Wandering Mist

Well for this game lets say 25 keybindings and let say 1 second global cooldown comes out to 12 wpm at lets say 97% accuracy. Right? Point of this not to be thinking about lets say were the letter T is when typing the word the so mind can be focused and raid mechanis.

Just touching on this particular point. Muscle memory (i.e. using your abilities without having to think about it) comes from just playing the game. The problem occurs when you have abilities that are required for raids but are never used in open world gameplay. For example, if you never need to use your CC abilities while levelling, even if you have those abilities on your hotbar, you won't have developed the muscle memory to use them in a high pressure situation like a raid.

consultant

mcstackerson wrote: »

They have already been talking about a Mentor program so we know that they at least plan on having one.

Thanks for the info was nto aware of that.

consultant

One of the players said this about one of my points is that I was talking about LFR and I somewhat agree with that statement..

So one way to put something Like LFR which is WoW instant que easy raid system. Is to take a dungeoun and have it so it can be converted to a 16 man raid. Kind of revamped version of dungeoun. Really just a place for toons to practice team work. This way you will not have to have an extremely easy version of an actual raid. If you have a really easy version of a raid that is more difficult think this kind of takes away from the more difficult experience cause you feel like you have already done it.

Would also make it clear to players that that modes is more of a practice mode.

Tarkl

The rising of the shield hero, is a somewhat fantastic anime and with a strange mix of an RPG not so mmo, since they are really only 4 "players", the curiosity of this anime is that it has an idea that fascinated me for an mmo, these players can win improvements or evolutions of their skills linked to the professions , the protagonist by collecting and raising his level of herbalist acquires an evolution of his weapon and therefore of some abilities, this idea I liked a lot, because a player who might not be as skilled in PvE or PvP content but enjoys grind could improve his character in a different way not by gear, but by the same evolutions of his skills, I understand the problem that is creating improvements for all classes / professions , but players would not be totally tied to content that they may not enjoy or are not very skilled and with this they could have more options and see how their character grows and improves with what they like

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