(...)so too round it off I will address THE only one claimed negative aspect that keeps getting brought up against combat trackers. Getting kicked because you under perform according to the dps tracker. If you really think, that a person that instant kicks you because you didn't do well just once, won't do the same thing because you were the first one to die then I have some bad news for you. He will. You have them in WoW as well as in Tera as well as in any other game in existence ever. Have you heard of LoL and it's community? I am yet to see a combat tracker there. "You died twice you are absolute and utter garbage and ruin the game, reported trash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" It's called a shitty human being. They exist regardless of tools available. Also, it works both ways, if I can find out early that the people I tried to group with are that sort, I can avoid them faster. Not using it as a tool to improve and offer criticism to someone but instead as an excuse to blame is an easy enough red flag to avoid. If you are salty about not being able to play with that sort of people well... right? I don't really see the issue here.
Ventharien wrote: » noaani wrote: » Across all games, my record for keeping a thread going on a topic I cared about is currently standing at 112 pages - that is the real target. How intelligent do the debates have to be? I'm always willing to help record breaking.
noaani wrote: » Across all games, my record for keeping a thread going on a topic I cared about is currently standing at 112 pages - that is the real target.
ekadzati wrote: » This one is not online publicly that I can find:Borbora, Z.; Hsu, K.; Srivastava, J.; and Williams, D. 2011. Churn prediction in mmorpgs using player motivation theories and ensemble approach. Proceedings of SocialCom-11.
DPS meters are a wonderful example of exclusionary behavior
leonerdo wrote: » I think an equal or larger portion of the blame can be placed on game designs which focus on endless extrinsic rewards. Rewards which require neither skill nor allies (nor skilled allies), but immense amounts of time. Naturally, these grinds reward compulsive efficiency as a side effect. But "the expense of player community and more robust community cohesion" is already paid when the developers decide to de-prioritize community-building gameplay, and create only progression-focused content instead. When allies are a-dime-a-dozen, and you only need them briefly, there's no reason to show them respect. And there's sure to be a large supply of faceless allies when everyone is focused on clearing easy content repetitively. Anybody can participate, and everyone wants the rewards. If that's the case, it only makes sense to seek higher efficiency through exclusionary behavior. At this point, DPS meters, being a morally-agnostic tool, can provide the service of weeding out inefficiencies. I hope that I've illustrated properly that exclusionary behavior involving DPS meters is merely a result of a much longer chain of events. The root cause is found in the game and it's founding community. (I believe communities influence the way a game gets played, even if they have no hand in designing it, in the same way that the interpretation of art, by the viewer, is often in dissimilar to the artist's intentions.)
leonerdo wrote: » noaani wrote: » leonerdo wrote: » I think an equal or larger portion of the blame can be placed on game designs which focus on endless extrinsic rewards. Rewards which require neither skill nor allies (nor skilled allies), but immense amounts of time. Naturally, these grinds reward compulsive efficiency as a side effect. But "the expense of player community and more robust community cohesion" is already paid when the developers decide to de-prioritize community-building gameplay, and create only progression-focused content instead. When allies are a-dime-a-dozen, and you only need them briefly, there's no reason to show them respect. And there's sure to be a large supply of faceless allies when everyone is focused on clearing easy content repetitively. Anybody can participate, and everyone wants the rewards. If that's the case, it only makes sense to seek higher efficiency through exclusionary behavior. At this point, DPS meters, being a morally-agnostic tool, can provide the service of weeding out inefficiencies. I hope that I've illustrated properly that exclusionary behavior involving DPS meters is merely a result of a much longer chain of events. The root cause is found in the game and it's founding community. (I believe communities influence the way a game gets played, even if they have no hand in designing it, in the same way that the interpretation of art, by the viewer, is often in dissimilar to the artist's intentions.) A better worded version of my point that games that see players require the community tend to have better communities than games that don't see players require the community. Where do you think I got the idea from? I have been reading most of the posts here (except the 100s of responses on Dev Discussions). But it's not just from your comments. It's also because of my hatred of time-sinks, and ennui for endless progression systems. Let's just say I understand the mindset required to disregard other people's humanity in pursuit of faster completion. ... I hope Ashes' time sinks won't be too bad. I know there's gonna be a lot of long-term grinds... I'm gonna suspend that thought until tomorrow.
noaani wrote: » leonerdo wrote: » I think an equal or larger portion of the blame can be placed on game designs which focus on endless extrinsic rewards. Rewards which require neither skill nor allies (nor skilled allies), but immense amounts of time. Naturally, these grinds reward compulsive efficiency as a side effect. But "the expense of player community and more robust community cohesion" is already paid when the developers decide to de-prioritize community-building gameplay, and create only progression-focused content instead. When allies are a-dime-a-dozen, and you only need them briefly, there's no reason to show them respect. And there's sure to be a large supply of faceless allies when everyone is focused on clearing easy content repetitively. Anybody can participate, and everyone wants the rewards. If that's the case, it only makes sense to seek higher efficiency through exclusionary behavior. At this point, DPS meters, being a morally-agnostic tool, can provide the service of weeding out inefficiencies. I hope that I've illustrated properly that exclusionary behavior involving DPS meters is merely a result of a much longer chain of events. The root cause is found in the game and it's founding community. (I believe communities influence the way a game gets played, even if they have no hand in designing it, in the same way that the interpretation of art, by the viewer, is often in dissimilar to the artist's intentions.) A better worded version of my point that games that see players require the community tend to have better communities than games that don't see players require the community.
Undead Canuck wrote: » Back to the original question of why say no. Because Steven doesn't want them. It really doesn't matter what opinion anyone other than the game developers have. We are not making the game. Since they are, they get to decide.
ekadzati wrote: » As if explicit developer and publisher statements are taken seriously... p'shaw, say it ain't so. (I'm willing to wager that >90% here think they are going to change development direction or major mechanics of this offering - the foundation assumption being that explicit statements are NOT taken seriously.) Irony? You betcha.
Nagash wrote: » you really talk to much without having a point
Ventharien wrote: » Nagash wrote: » you really talk to much without having a point I mean she usually has a point, it's just a super simple one couched in bigger words for whatever reason.
