The worst possible feature in this game is the corruption

I can tell now, the corruption feature is completely broken. Let say, and it is a common case, some player kills another who grief and ks the mobs. Now let see how that PK penalty will work. The player who is flagged have the choice to die, or to die multiple times. So in fact the player who griefs wins. I saw exactly the same feature in many games - L2 after GoD, L2 Classic, BDO and etc. In every game the result was death of OW PvP. Many players left cause they feel frustrated they cannot protect from griefers. And above all some players do intentional griefing. I call that feature the gank of the loser. And if this thing exists here, I will simply not play AOC, as I already played BDO - good looking, but terrible game.

If you want to reduce the ganking, this is not the way to do it. There are multiple different mechanisms, that will not be exploited so much.

One simple exploit - I want a boss, or mobs, or anything in the game for OW PvE. What I have to do is to let another player, or players to gank me, so to insult them, or to ks, or to grief. Then I will take what I want, as when they PK me, they lost the case.

One possible way to reduce the ganking is a similar karma system - so the PKer is flagged for 5-10 min, but he accumulates PKs. And he needs to clean them by doing things that brings him exp and ingame money, for free. So 1 - 3 PKs random - 1-3 hour grind. 4-6 PKs - random 2-6 hours grind. Also loss of fighting abilities/items if the character has/dies with 6PKs and more.

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Wong

shintaro wrote: »

Ikcen wrote: »

You are missing the point - we send lower level alts, with a healer, some fast runners, to tease the boss. Your party shall PK them to get it. Then my party with higher level main characters come and take your gear and the boss both.

So that is only about the boss fights, but for normal mobs, we are on the same line?

For boss fights, it may very well be that they are instanced in a sense that no other group can enter and disturb your fight. In the latest gameplay footage, there is a portal where you must go through which could limit access. Everything might be different for bosses. We know for example, that for some drops, a well trained gatherer is necessary. In this case, not the player that first hits the boss gets the loot, but the one that manages to gather it first. It might be possible there that one group kills the boss, and then another group comes in, kills them and gathers those rare ressources. But, if this is possible, it is by design. They are able to restrict access to boss fights.

EDIT: If the game is designed to have multiple parties access the same boss at the same time, it might also very well be that this is a designated combat zone where everybody is a combatant. This would make sense for such a place if they want that.

I don't think that is the case. You saw the footage from the boss fights, they roll through the dungeon and they reached a teleport to get them to the boss room. Not sure if the teleport thing is temporary or that is how this specific dungeon will work or if all open world dungeons will work. I see no reason why another party or raid can't occupy said portal or even port inside the boss room and wait for others to come and slaughter them at the spot.
WIP, WIP, WIP

Caeryl

mrsynth wrote: »

shintaro wrote: »

Ikcen wrote: »

You are missing the point - we send lower level alts, with a healer, some fast runners, to tease the boss. Your party shall PK them to get it. Then my party with higher level main characters come and take your gear and the boss both.

So that is only about the boss fights, but for normal mobs, we are on the same line?

For boss fights, it may very well be that they are instanced in a sense that no other group can enter and disturb your fight. In the latest gameplay footage, there is a portal where you must go through which could limit access. Everything might be different for bosses. We know for example, that for some drops, a well trained gatherer is necessary. In this case, not the player that first hits the boss gets the loot, but the one that manages to gather it first. It might be possible there that one group kills the boss, and then another group comes in, kills them and gathers those rare ressources. But, if this is possible, it is by design. They are able to restrict access to boss fights.

EDIT: If the game is designed to have multiple parties access the same boss at the same time, it might also very well be that this is a designated combat zone where everybody is a combatant. This would make sense for such a place if they want that.

I see no reason why another party or raid can't occupy said portal or even port inside the boss room and wait for others to come and slaughter them at the spot.
WIP, WIP, WIP

Nothing would stop them from doing that, but why would they camp the door instead of actually, yknow, killing the boss to get its loot?

Azryil

shintaro wrote: »

Ikcen wrote: »

You are missing the point - we send lower level alts, with a healer, some fast runners, to tease the boss. Your party shall PK them to get it. Then my party with higher level main characters come and take your gear and the boss both.

So that is only about the boss fights, but for normal mobs, we are on the same line?

For boss fights, it may very well be that they are instanced in a sense that no other group can enter and disturb your fight. In the latest gameplay footage, there is a portal where you must go through which could limit access. Everything might be different for bosses. We know for example, that for some drops, a well trained gatherer is necessary. In this case, not the player that first hits the boss gets the loot, but the one that manages to gather it first. It might be possible there that one group kills the boss, and then another group comes in, kills them and gathers those rare ressources. But, if this is possible, it is by design. They are able to restrict access to boss fights.

EDIT: If the game is designed to have multiple parties access the same boss at the same time, it might also very well be that this is a designated combat zone where everybody is a combatant. This would make sense for such a place if they want that.

From what I remember from past livestreams and discussions there will be open world bosses that players will have to fight over in order to get the kill.

Jamation

I tried to help them. I really did.
I realize now they are just trolling us all.
Very well played.

Varkun

I did call it a few pages back.

George_Black

Idk what the big deal is.
The corruption system is a great idea to prevent players from being erratic and going on a rampage.
It has featured successfully in many open world mmorpgs.

Noaani

Varkun wrote: »

I did call it a few pages back.

My theory is that the poster in question is a trainee for the 50 Cent Army.

I mean, if you are training up to be a person that posts on the internet with the goal of causing a rift on a given target community, what better place to start training than an MMO forum?

There will always be opinions, the pertinent information is easy to find and all on one location, and it doesn't really matter if you, as a trainee, mess things up.

Atama

noaani wrote: »

Varkun wrote: »

I did call it a few pages back.

My theory is that the poster in question is a trainee for the 50 Cent Army.

I mean, if you are training up to be a person that posts on the internet with the goal of causing a rift on a given target community, what better place to start training than an MMO forum?

There will always be opinions, the pertinent information is easy to find and all on one location, and it doesn't really matter if you, as a trainee, mess things up.

The problem is they’re not very good at it, if the intent was to rile people up and/or divide a community.

The comments/opinions were more confusing and nonsensical than infuriating. And you don’t divide a community by making statements that literally nobody else supports.

Noaani

Atama wrote: »

The problem is they’re not very good at it

I never said they should get the job!

tankenka

I have gamed for a long, long time, and have played through a multitude of systems. I *do* agree that there should be something in place to prevent griefing. As the producer/main developer is an old-school DAoC player, he does understand how this KS system would be problematic - so I am confident that we'll see some balancing in the system, but as with all systems - they first have to be put their test ideas out there to see how they perform under pressure before they can be assessed, changed, updated, tweaked, or replaced.

Alpha is a 60% complete system - so there will be a LOT of changes as we move forward. It seems to me that this will be one of the systems we'll see change considerably. In every game I have be a tester for, the systems for reputation underwent the greatest changes. Of those that had open-world PVP, such as Ultima Online or DAoC, the systems were rigorously tested and changed over time to be unrecognizable from how they started out - and in each case, in their own way, for the better.

Knowing that, I expect that we can see a lot of growth and change.

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Nagash

the fact you call people trolls when you have a time out on your profile says it all

Noaani

Ikcen wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Varkun wrote: »

I did call it a few pages back.

My theory is that the poster in question is a trainee for the 50 Cent Army.

I mean, if you are training up to be a person that posts on the internet with the goal of causing a rift on a given target community, what better place to start training than an MMO forum?

There will always be opinions, the pertinent information is easy to find and all on one location, and it doesn't really matter if you, as a trainee, mess things up.

And my theory is that you are an internet troll.

I mean, there are times when I can't deny this.

Still thinking 50 cent army though.

unknown

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Caeryl

Ikcen wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

the fact you call people trolls when you have a time out on your profile says it all

I'm jailed because of the absurd comment for George Black's mother, or something about the elves, whores, slaves, dwarfs, noobs, Chinese mandarin, have no idea in fact, nobody explained, but probably it is because of the word: mother. At least his comment was kind of on topic. My was not, so fair decision.

The problem is that from about 200 comments here probably 100 are off topic. And by off topic I mean they are not even related to game.

And this is trolling - when you, and I mean you too Nagash, write spam to derail the thread, because you do not like or disagree about something. If you disagree, use some arguments, if you have such. If you do not like it, stay out of it.

So there was a very similar anti-ganking system in L2, that in BDO also was similar, and both failed. Let think how that one here could be improved. Of course such a system could be successful in AOC, as there are some small, but important differences. For example the corrupted player here does not make more PKs if PvP. Also it depends on the current penalties. But the fist hit rule seems very problematic, as an aoe player or a party easily could own an entire area.

You got put in the time put in Time Out because you were being rude and disrespectful to other posters, and still are.

You’re still putting all your stock into how other games handled gankers and not how Ashes, a hugely community-driven game, will handle gankers.

You also claim first hit rules are bad specifically because someone could claim a whole area, which you wanted to do anyway, so I fail to see how you would find that a bad system unless, again, you’ve been lying about your reasons behind your dislike of the anti-ganking system.

You have no arguments. The entirely of what you claim to be an argument boils down to “L2/BDO did it bad” as if those games are remotely what Ashes will be.

Intrepid does not want meaningless PvP like you see in BDO. They want you to be fighting over something. If you’re fighting around junk someone is willing to just give up (not fight back for) and you kill them despite them not fighting back, congrats the game is working as intended when it punishes you for meaningless PK’s.

If you’ve misguidedly decided this half acre of “farming spot” is what you want to fight over (even though such places won’t exist in Ashes because things don’t respawn infinitely), then deal with the consequences of fighting over something that isn’t meaningful.

If you want actual PvP then raid caravans, participate in Node sieges and wars, create a mercenary guild to guard raid guilds from competition while they fight a boss, participate in PvP Arenas in military nodes.

If all you want to have free reign to murderhobo because someone “stole” your nonexistent property, then this is not the game for you.

If you expect someone to bring their friend specifically to “force” you to kill them (which isn’t possible, unless you’re really that easily baited), just so their friend can kill you after, you have unrealistic expectations of how corruption works. One Corrupted kill will not make you combat inept, one kill will not mean you automatically lose your gear, one kill does not mean you’ve “lost”.

Either you’re playing around meaningful content that people want to contest and PvP for, or you’re fighting over junk. Given that Intrepid wants it to be the former, color me completely unsurprised that there’s consequences to the latter.

xlangatangx

Just a friendly reminder that trolls die if we don't feed them...

Alluring

Closing thread as it has been cycling into nonconstructive discussion and personal attacks.

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