Second there are many who claim the PvP for the right to farm mobs is pointless, as there will be more meaningful ways for PvP as caravans and sieges. This is simply stupid. There are caravans, sieges, GvG in BDO too - that does not make the PvP there meaningful.
See, you are assuming that because Ashes will have open PvP, sieges and caravans, that it must be the same as BDO that also has open PvP, sieges and caravans.
What you are missing is the weight of importance on each of those things in each game.
BDO didn't place much importance on sieges. It's really hard for sieges to matter when you are not restricted to a single server, do I don't blame Pearl Abyss for this.
Additionally, sieges in BDO were a thing that only a small percentage of players actually took part in - and thus only a small percentage of players in BDO were affected by them at all.
BDO sieges are probably more analogous tin castle sieges in Ashes, rather than all sieges. Castle sieges only affect a small portion of the player base, and having a castle is more a case of bragging rights than anything else.
Node sieges in Ashes though, they affect literally everyone. Every player in the game will be a citizen of a node, and those nodes can and will be sieged, greatly affecting the lives on any citizens should they lose.
Caravans in BDO are also not really comparable to Ashes caravans.
In BDO, caravans are essentially PvE content (unless you are not referring to the Desert Caravans - in which case I have no idea what you are talking about).
In Ashes, a caravan is where a player literally puts up to 10 times their inventory worth of materials (raw or processed, afaik) in to a vehicle and then attempted to move it from one node to another.
If someone attacks this caravan and wins, then they get those materials.
There are other caravan types, but this is the type that will be most common as virtually all materials used to make virtually all items will need to be moved via caravan.
Also, somewhat strangely, when you attack a caravan in BDO you can get flagged - whereas caravan PvP in Ashes is free from the corruption system.
Combined, these things all work together to make the siege and caravan system in Ashes far more important to every player in the game. Combined, they represent literally everything in the game - how you make money, how you upgrade gear, where in the world you live - even what content is available for you to participate in.
Even that mob spawning point that you want to PvP with someone over is dependent on sieges In order for that spot to spawn max level nodes, it needs to be in the ZoI of a metropolis, and if that metropolis is successfully sieged, those mobs won't spawn any more - at least not at that level.
Take the importance of PvP types in BDO and turn them upside down - that is Ashes.
You may not see it, but literally everyone else does, including the several hundred years of combined MMO development experience on staff at Intrepid - and literally everyone will take their experience over yours.
Let point few essential things. First there is a hype, which makes the expectations unrealistic - this is normal for any game. Some people expect AOC to have so big world, that there will be no competition among the players who hunt mobs - this is absolutely unrealistic if the game is successful.
Second there are many who claim the PvP for the right to farm mobs is pointless, as there will be more meaningful ways for PvP as caravans and sieges. This is simply stupid. There are caravans, sieges, GvG in BDO too - that does not make the PvP there meaningful.
Most people do not realize that what makes the PvP in a MMO meaningful is not the goal, neither the rewards, although both are very important, but the consequences.
So a meaningful caravan gank - yes that will be ganking if it is open world as promised, not a fair PvP - is when the caravan care goods of players, and they lose them.
(Here we get another problem - why anybody will use a caravan, if it could be attacked freely?)
The meaningful siege is when the winner takes control over part of the map, taxes, rights to build, rights to trade and etc. So he conquer, but then can manage the conquered.
That is why the fight for the so called farming spot - so a place where the players hunt mobs - is a very meaningful. As it is a fight with consequences for both - the winner, and the loser. Also the winner will micromanage the spot - part of the map. See this is not very different from a siege. Also similar is the PvP for boss. And both - PvP for farming spot or a boss, are essential small scale competition, for parties or among individual players.
That is why the so called corruption system is very important. If it is too restrictive - it will stop any open world PvP and there will be only events like sieges and caravans. If it is too loose, there will be too much ganking, that will stop the progression of many of the players, and will make them feel frustrated.
In the first case the game will lose the competitive players, and they are the majority of the online players. In the second case the game will lose the so called PvE players - often solo or small group guys, who are not very competitive, and many of them are not cooperative too, as they are afraid of losses, but also of rejection. Do not sound very heroic, but they are the majority of the MMORPG players.
BDO player here.
The Caravan you're referring to in BDO is simply a wagon to carry your goods. You lose nothing of value except trading goods, which are almost of no value and importance. Wagons are commonly used in BDO to transport grinding loots, which will not be lost even if the wagon is destroyed. The loots are everything in BDO. Not losing the loots means there's no use attacking a player's wagon.
Sieges and GvG in BDO does not mean anything. It is simply a PvP event to boasts each others e-peens. You lose nothing if you lose the war, except your guild's position as the leader of the region. You can't do a lot anyway as a guild in BDO. Guilds that owns a node will only be able to collect taxes.
Comparing to AoC, where the world building itself is up to the players, Caravans and Sieges are very important. Sieging a node could destroy a node completely if successful. This is important for competing guilds if they own another node which cannot be leveled up due to another node already being at the same level as theirs. All the buildings and infrastructure, your efforts to build the node can be destroyed in a siege. Your houses as well. This is a real risk.
Caravans are used to transport actual goods and resources. Be it quest items, resources that you're transporting to level up your nodes or complete a building in your node, or your items that you want to sell at another place. Having your Caravan destroyed means it will drop a portion of the goods inside your caravan. You might lose the most valuable item in your caravan that you definitely do not want to lose.
These are what is meant by meaningful PvP. There are risks and rewards. There are consequences for every action you take or or do not take.
As a BDO player, I understand why you're very worried about farming mobs. To be honest with you, BDO is the only game that I have felt that way. Mobs are everything in BDO. Mobs drops the loot and golds that you need to upgrade your character.
But can you say it will be the same in AoC? Will it be like BDO where mobs are very important to the growth of the world, or your character? I highly doubt it. The game is not meant to be a grindfest, which is what BDO is.
The Corruption system should not deter any kinds of players. In fact, players are incentivised to flag for PvP to suffer only half of the death penalty. If you value your items (partial loot enabled) and do not want to accrue EXP debt at 100%, you should fight back. If not, you can try to run away. In the event that you die, the player will accumulate Corruption.
To remove Corruption, they cannot simply AFK. There is no expiring timer on the Corruption. They have to die and suffer the death penalties. So having their friends killing them, is not a good idea either. There might also be another way which is by questing but this is only under certain conditions.
EXP debt is not merely negative EXP. You will suffer from stats dampening and lowered gear proficiency/eficiency. All the more reason to fight back and win.
I'm a casual. I am not that interested in PvP. However, these systems makes me want to participate in the PvP just because it sounds fun and have an objective. And because of that, I can tell you that even a casual like me would more than likely to fight back. Carebear no more.
Fisrt, these are your expectations for AOC. Let be clear - you say what you imagine to be the perfect game, and it never could happen in any game, as you know - most existing MMORPGs are PvE focused, and that does not make them good games.
In fact what you expect is in direct contradiction with the concept for an open world game.
These are the expectations because that is how it is getting developed, the only thing it contradicts is what YOU want for the game and at the end of the day it isn't about what you want, it's what the devs want.
Also: "We work in a manner and process that the team, as experienced developers who have built massive MMORPGs previously, has deemed the best way to make the quality of MMORPG that we want" - any MMORPG is made like that.
Damn, you don't say? Almost like the devs know what they're doing or something. Funny.
And I suppose this forum is to comment and debate the concepts and features of AOC, but not to say this is the best game ever - as the game does not exist yet.
It would be, except damn near everything you post is absolute bs, baiting, and honestly not worth the time to even type...yet here we are.
As for the data - the most popular and profitable online games right now are LoL, Fortnite, other mobas and battle arenas, FPS, competitive card games. Deal with the facts.
Your fuckin data is literally based on games that are not part of the genre, automatically invalidated as there is no argument or support to one to be made there, especially since this is an MMORPG...and the numbers aren't in yet..so..no...nope. Nadda, nothing here.
As I understand AOC will be an open world game, both for the PvP and the PvE, and that means that often the PvP and the PvE will mix. Obviously that will not be WoW, ESO, GW2 type of themepark instanced game, where the solo players, the cooperative players and the competitive players and activities are strictly separated.
Ashes of Creation is a PVX game, where guess what, PvP touches damn near everything in the game. Which you would know if you weren't so massively misinformed and constantly spouting off jabberwocky juice everywhere. Once again ASHES.IS.NOT.FOR.EVERYONE. If you won't like it don't play it, it's simple as that.
Such an open world game is very hard to handle as the players are very different and that creates constant conflicts. Like this here
The only constant conflict is logic not being absorbed. Damn near everyone else that is keeping up with things knows and understands what things are planned. It's getting old just seeing your posts anymore. You're about as bad as the bear at this point.
(Here we get another problem - why anybody will use a caravan, if it could be attacked freely?)
I would say so, yes. If theres an increase in efficiency or speed of acquisition people will. Theres a reason why in old school runescape people actually use the chaos altar in deep wilderness (aka pvp land) to train prayer; Its the absolute fastest xp/hour despite the potential monetary loss.
Am looking foreword to the PvP and the PvE in AoC 🙂.... Having the danger involved of possible loss like with the caravan system is a aspect missing from a lot of mmo these days and I will greatly enjoy it... Also experience loss from dying as well as corruption... All around sounding pretty great.... will not be for everyone but there are plenty of care bear mmo for people who don’t like danger... exciting to see alpha 1 getting closer.
Let point few essential things. First there is a hype, which makes the expectations unrealistic - this is normal for any game. Some people expect AOC to have so big world, that there will be no competition among the players who hunt mobs - this is absolutely unrealistic if the game is successful.
No one is expecting "No competition for mobs".
There will always be conflict, especially when the game is built to support that.
So a meaningful caravan gank - yes that will be ganking if it is open world as promised, not a fair PvP - is when the caravan care goods of players, and they lose them.
(Here we get another problem - why anybody will use a caravan, if it could be attacked freely?)
Yes, this just means that you have to plan the usage of them better.
If you want to transport valuables, maybe you should hire protection for those valuables?
This is pure logic. If you are expecting to transport thousands of gold's worth of materials in a safe and leisurely manner, this game is, again, not for you.
That is why the so called corruption system is very important. If it is too restrictive - it will stop any open world PvP and there will be only events like sieges and caravans. If it is too loose, there will be too much ganking, that will stop the progression of many of the players, and will make them feel frustrated.
It's not restrictive, as I said in your previous thread, which you did not refute any of my points on btw, you just kept repeating yourself without any real arguments.
In the first case the game will lose the competitive players, and they are the majority of the online players. In the second case the game will lose the so called PvE players - often solo or small group guys, who are not very competitive, and many of them are not cooperative too, as they are afraid of losses, but also of rejection. Do not sound very heroic, but they are the majority of the MMORPG players.
And that is already expected by them.
They have said from the beginnning of development of this MMO that "This game is not for everyone
And the corruption as any system in the game depends on the risk/reward ratio. So if the risk is too high, the OW PvP will not happen as any attack starts with the presumption of PK. You cannot know if the player will retaliate, specially if both are green. If the risk is too low in comparison to the reward - players will gank players everywhere.
So what are the risk and the reward for the corruption?
As several people tried to tell you in your previous thread
The risk is not "high" as long as you attack someone of the same level as you, the lower the level of the one you kill compared to your own, the more corruption you gain if he was Green.
Same level, minimum amount of corruption gained.
Why would you attack someone if you are afraid that they won't retaliate?
Then you are not attacking them for a good reason.
(Again just sounds like you want the system gone sot that you can gank lower levels)
Risk:
Being attacked by others for items
3-4x Death Penalties (Which means 3-4 times XP debt on death, 3-4 times stat reduction on death etc)
Reward:
Possibly a lot of materials (If you die as Green, you drop more materials than if died as Purple)
Remoing other player from the area
The simplest yet hardest stat to train is Willpower.
Take Albion as a good example, as it is an OW PvP game with full loot. And keep in mind there the time loss - so the time needed to get gear or quest items is relatively short.
There many of the players stay in the low tier zones, which are safer, but do not give any valuable loot and provide very slow experience. And it is an OW PvP game with full loot, so it is supposed the players know there will be risk. But they are afraid, no matter the risk is relatively low as the time loss is low. So do not underestimate the fear of the players.
Ashes of Creation does not have "Full Loot"
The simplest yet hardest stat to train is Willpower.
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Wandering MistModerator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
No one is expecting "No competition for mobs".
There will always be conflict, especially when the game is built to support that.
It's not restrictive, as I said in your previous thread, which you did not refute any of my points on btw, you just kept repeating yourself without any real arguments.
And that is already expected by them.
They have said from the beginnning of development of this MMO that "This game is not for everyone
As several people tried to tell you in your previous thread
The risk is not "high" as long as you attack someone of the same level as you, the lower the level of the one you kill compared to your own, the more corruption you gain if he was Green.
Same level, minimum amount of corruption gained.
Why would you attack someone if you are afraid that they won't retaliate?
Then you are not attacking them for a good reason.
(Again just sounds like you want the system gone sot that you can gank lower levels)
Risk:
Being attacked by others for items
3-4x Death Penalties (Which means 3-4 times XP debt on death, 3-4 times stat reduction on death etc)
Reward:
Possibly a lot of materials (If you die as Green, you drop more materials than if died as Purple)
Remoing other player from the area
Now, some people here actually expect very low open world competition. You cannot say no one, for anything.
Second - any penalty is restrictive. Also there is not any game for everyone.
We do not know the exact penalties. And the penalties vs the rewards will determine if the players attack or retaliate.
I already pointed how the current PK system could be abused.
1. restrictions are fine as long as they are applied well
2. any system can be abused, but those systems may still be necessary
3. I'm personally reserving judgement on the corruption system until I've seen it in action
Now, some people here actually expect very low open world competition. You cannot say no one, for anything.
Second - any penalty is restrictive. Also there is not any game for everyone.
We do not know the exact penalties. And the penalties vs the rewards will determine if the players attack or retaliate.
I already pointed how the current PK system could be abused.
1. not the game for them
2. that's why it's called a penalty...and no shit.
3. no, if the risk outweighs the reward it won't happen. please use your brain. Penalties beside the point here, if it isn't a good idea you just don't risk it plain and simple.
4. no, you bitched because it wasn't how you wanted it, and you're still bitching about it.
Corrupt:
Death Penalties are multiplied by 3-4 times
3-4 Times the XP Debt compared to Non-Combatant
3-4 Times the Durability Loss compared to Non-Combatant
3-4 Times the % of Raw materials dropped compared to Non-Combatant
(Unique Pentalty only to corrupted)
% Chance to drop the gear you have equipped, or in your inventory
Respawn location becomes random instead at normal Respawn points
I already pointed how the current PK system could be abused.
What? Your "I will make you kill me on an alt then relog onto main to kill corrupted you" abuse?
If a person is stupid enough to linger around an area like that, he deserves to get killed.
Also, it's almost impossible to "accidentally" kill someone.
TTK (Time To Kill) is not fast in Ashes.
The simplest yet hardest stat to train is Willpower.
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AlluringModerator, Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Hello Friends this is just a reminder to stay on topic and have a civilized discussion you can debate points without insulting each other.
If someone intentionally derails the topic or starts attacking others please use the report function accordingly so Staff can be alerted.
Thank you!
(Here we get another problem - why anybody will use a caravan, if it could be attacked freely?)
I would say so, yes. If theres an increase in efficiency or speed of acquisition people will. Theres a reason why in old school runescape people actually use the chaos altar in deep wilderness (aka pvp land) to train prayer; Its the absolute fastest xp/hour despite the potential monetary loss.
Take Albion as a good example, as it is an OW PvP game with full loot. And keep in mind there the time loss - so the time needed to get gear or quest items is relatively short.
There many of the players stay in the low tier zones, which are safer, but do not give any valuable loot and provide very slow experience. And it is an OW PvP game with full loot, so it is supposed the players know there will be risk. But they are afraid, no matter the risk is relatively low as the time loss is low. So do not underestimate the fear of the players.
Welcome to runescape's pve vs pvp. People literally go into the wilderness in welfare gear to minimize loss for the various content there that isn't strictly pvp. Yes there are people who say pvp should be removed from osrs but there are still people who go there. Its certainly not as active as pve parts of the game but theres enough going on that plenty of non pkers whine about getting killed. If theres something to be gained people will do it.
Still the devil is the details. So with slightly different features we may have very different results.
This is the point that people have been trying to get across to you for a while now.
There are some similarities between Ashes, BDO and L2, but for every similar system, the details are completely different. When the details are completely different, you get completely different results.
As to whether or not people will use caravans - most of the time they won't have the choice, at least logically speaking.
Resource spawn locations will come and go, but player infrastructure will remain in one place as long as that place remains (aka, as long as the node isn't sieged).
If you are set up to process various metal ores in to metal ingots, and the closest spawn of one of those ores is four nodes over, you have three choices for how to get them to your processing facility - either in your inventory, on a pack mount (mule) or in a caravan.
No matter which of these three options you go for, your materials are able to be taken by other players. if you opt for a caravan, then there is no corruption system.
If you opt to use a mule, you are basically telling players around you that you are carrying stuff and have no effective ability to defend yourself (if you could defend yourself you would be using a caravan). Basically, you are wearing a sign around your neck saying "free loot".
If you opt to carry stuff in your backpack, you are not really standing out as a particular target for PvP, and so may not be attacked.
The problem here is in volume, If you opt to use a mule, you would need to do 10 runs to make up the volume of one caravan. If you opt to use your backpack, you are looking at 100 runs to make up that same volume. With the probability that you won't have use of fast travel, attempting to carry resources across a few nodes without a caravan would be a full time endeavor in Ashes.
The potential to purchase the items from an AH/marketplace also doesn't really exist, as if you purchase them, you are purchasing them in the node they are in and then need to transport them. Since the resources in discussion here are not harvested in the node you are in, the people selling them probably have them listed in the node they were harvested in.
While it is possible that someone could transport the resources to a different node and sell them, or you could buy resources on the condition that they are transported, both of these would then simply shift the above options to a different player, rather than negate the caravan system.
What will end up happening is people will run caravans, but they will usually have some form of player escort with them. Whether that is friends, guildmates, business partners or mercenaries is up to the individual player and their circumstance, but that is what will happen.
The only potential way to avoid caravans is if you live in a scientific metropolis, and the resources are also within the ZoI of that metropolis. This is the only way to get any form of fast travel, and even then it is restricted - and even if you can port from close to the resource location to your destination, you are still talking 100 return trips to make up for one caravans worth of materials.
This is not a game for ppl who dont want PvP *shrug*
The simplest yet hardest stat to train is Willpower.
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Undead CanuckMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
There is no forced PVP. The game is being built upon a base of PVP. If you choose to play it, you are choosing to play PVP. When you choose something, it is not forced.
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VarkunMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
PvX forms the basis of ashes of creation, this has been known right from the start, it will not change. All we will do as players and testers is refine the corruption system close any loopholes and try to balance it out.
Ashes of creation and the PvX system will not be for everyone.
Close your eyes spread your arms and always trust your cape.
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unknownsystemerrorMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
You realize your syntax and arguments are a dead giveaway. Everyone can see when the account was created. You are not fooling anyone.
All you have to do in the corruption system is have friends kill you until it is clear. You still lose some exp., but items this way will not be lost. Saw this many times in L2. This is a very bad system for PVP.
Yes, and the amount that is lost will not be small considered it is mulitplied 3-4 times if you die as corrupt.
So sure you can avoid losing items that way, however the time needed to regain that experience, will be longer than if you did the quests to get rid of the corruption, so it's actually less efficient in the end anyways.
So the "friend can kill me" argument is trully invalid.
Not to mention that your respawn is completely random if you are corrupt, so after 1st death, you have to try and survive long enough for your friend to come and kill you again, which will be hard.
And the items will require much more repair
(which means you need materials, only gold is not enough to repair things in Ashes)
If you think it's bad is your problem however.
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AlluringModerator, Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 2020
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Comments
What you are missing is the weight of importance on each of those things in each game.
BDO didn't place much importance on sieges. It's really hard for sieges to matter when you are not restricted to a single server, do I don't blame Pearl Abyss for this.
Additionally, sieges in BDO were a thing that only a small percentage of players actually took part in - and thus only a small percentage of players in BDO were affected by them at all.
BDO sieges are probably more analogous tin castle sieges in Ashes, rather than all sieges. Castle sieges only affect a small portion of the player base, and having a castle is more a case of bragging rights than anything else.
Node sieges in Ashes though, they affect literally everyone. Every player in the game will be a citizen of a node, and those nodes can and will be sieged, greatly affecting the lives on any citizens should they lose.
Caravans in BDO are also not really comparable to Ashes caravans.
In BDO, caravans are essentially PvE content (unless you are not referring to the Desert Caravans - in which case I have no idea what you are talking about).
In Ashes, a caravan is where a player literally puts up to 10 times their inventory worth of materials (raw or processed, afaik) in to a vehicle and then attempted to move it from one node to another.
If someone attacks this caravan and wins, then they get those materials.
There are other caravan types, but this is the type that will be most common as virtually all materials used to make virtually all items will need to be moved via caravan.
Also, somewhat strangely, when you attack a caravan in BDO you can get flagged - whereas caravan PvP in Ashes is free from the corruption system.
Combined, these things all work together to make the siege and caravan system in Ashes far more important to every player in the game. Combined, they represent literally everything in the game - how you make money, how you upgrade gear, where in the world you live - even what content is available for you to participate in.
Even that mob spawning point that you want to PvP with someone over is dependent on sieges In order for that spot to spawn max level nodes, it needs to be in the ZoI of a metropolis, and if that metropolis is successfully sieged, those mobs won't spawn any more - at least not at that level.
Take the importance of PvP types in BDO and turn them upside down - that is Ashes.
You may not see it, but literally everyone else does, including the several hundred years of combined MMO development experience on staff at Intrepid - and literally everyone will take their experience over yours.
BDO player here.
The Caravan you're referring to in BDO is simply a wagon to carry your goods. You lose nothing of value except trading goods, which are almost of no value and importance. Wagons are commonly used in BDO to transport grinding loots, which will not be lost even if the wagon is destroyed. The loots are everything in BDO. Not losing the loots means there's no use attacking a player's wagon.
Sieges and GvG in BDO does not mean anything. It is simply a PvP event to boasts each others e-peens. You lose nothing if you lose the war, except your guild's position as the leader of the region. You can't do a lot anyway as a guild in BDO. Guilds that owns a node will only be able to collect taxes.
Comparing to AoC, where the world building itself is up to the players, Caravans and Sieges are very important. Sieging a node could destroy a node completely if successful. This is important for competing guilds if they own another node which cannot be leveled up due to another node already being at the same level as theirs. All the buildings and infrastructure, your efforts to build the node can be destroyed in a siege. Your houses as well. This is a real risk.
Caravans are used to transport actual goods and resources. Be it quest items, resources that you're transporting to level up your nodes or complete a building in your node, or your items that you want to sell at another place. Having your Caravan destroyed means it will drop a portion of the goods inside your caravan. You might lose the most valuable item in your caravan that you definitely do not want to lose.
These are what is meant by meaningful PvP. There are risks and rewards. There are consequences for every action you take or or do not take.
As a BDO player, I understand why you're very worried about farming mobs. To be honest with you, BDO is the only game that I have felt that way. Mobs are everything in BDO. Mobs drops the loot and golds that you need to upgrade your character.
But can you say it will be the same in AoC? Will it be like BDO where mobs are very important to the growth of the world, or your character? I highly doubt it. The game is not meant to be a grindfest, which is what BDO is.
The Corruption system should not deter any kinds of players. In fact, players are incentivised to flag for PvP to suffer only half of the death penalty. If you value your items (partial loot enabled) and do not want to accrue EXP debt at 100%, you should fight back. If not, you can try to run away. In the event that you die, the player will accumulate Corruption.
To remove Corruption, they cannot simply AFK. There is no expiring timer on the Corruption. They have to die and suffer the death penalties. So having their friends killing them, is not a good idea either. There might also be another way which is by questing but this is only under certain conditions.
EXP debt is not merely negative EXP. You will suffer from stats dampening and lowered gear proficiency/eficiency. All the more reason to fight back and win.
I'm a casual. I am not that interested in PvP. However, these systems makes me want to participate in the PvP just because it sounds fun and have an objective. And because of that, I can tell you that even a casual like me would more than likely to fight back. Carebear no more.
These are the expectations because that is how it is getting developed, the only thing it contradicts is what YOU want for the game and at the end of the day it isn't about what you want, it's what the devs want.
Damn, you don't say? Almost like the devs know what they're doing or something. Funny.
It would be, except damn near everything you post is absolute bs, baiting, and honestly not worth the time to even type...yet here we are.
Your fuckin data is literally based on games that are not part of the genre, automatically invalidated as there is no argument or support to one to be made there, especially since this is an MMORPG...and the numbers aren't in yet..so..no...nope. Nadda, nothing here.
Ashes of Creation is a PVX game, where guess what, PvP touches damn near everything in the game. Which you would know if you weren't so massively misinformed and constantly spouting off jabberwocky juice everywhere. Once again ASHES.IS.NOT.FOR.EVERYONE. If you won't like it don't play it, it's simple as that.
The only constant conflict is logic not being absorbed. Damn near everyone else that is keeping up with things knows and understands what things are planned. It's getting old just seeing your posts anymore. You're about as bad as the bear at this point.
I would say so, yes. If theres an increase in efficiency or speed of acquisition people will. Theres a reason why in old school runescape people actually use the chaos altar in deep wilderness (aka pvp land) to train prayer; Its the absolute fastest xp/hour despite the potential monetary loss.
No one is expecting "No competition for mobs".
There will always be conflict, especially when the game is built to support that.
Yes, this just means that you have to plan the usage of them better.
If you want to transport valuables, maybe you should hire protection for those valuables?
This is pure logic. If you are expecting to transport thousands of gold's worth of materials in a safe and leisurely manner, this game is, again, not for you.
It's not restrictive, as I said in your previous thread, which you did not refute any of my points on btw, you just kept repeating yourself without any real arguments.
And that is already expected by them.
They have said from the beginnning of development of this MMO that
"This game is not for everyone
As several people tried to tell you in your previous thread
The risk is not "high" as long as you attack someone of the same level as you, the lower the level of the one you kill compared to your own, the more corruption you gain if he was Green.
Same level, minimum amount of corruption gained.
Why would you attack someone if you are afraid that they won't retaliate?
Then you are not attacking them for a good reason.
(Again just sounds like you want the system gone sot that you can gank lower levels)
Risk:
Being attacked by others for items
3-4x Death Penalties (Which means 3-4 times XP debt on death, 3-4 times stat reduction on death etc)
Reward:
Possibly a lot of materials (If you die as Green, you drop more materials than if died as Purple)
Remoing other player from the area
Ashes of Creation does not have "Full Loot"
1. restrictions are fine as long as they are applied well
2. any system can be abused, but those systems may still be necessary
3. I'm personally reserving judgement on the corruption system until I've seen it in action
1. not the game for them
2. that's why it's called a penalty...and no shit.
3. no, if the risk outweighs the reward it won't happen. please use your brain. Penalties beside the point here, if it isn't a good idea you just don't risk it plain and simple.
4. no, you bitched because it wasn't how you wanted it, and you're still bitching about it.
We do know the exact penalties tho.
Here's a write up on how the system works.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hf-QR65CQi7H6Wy4syQQscfzFPceU13KBxrQ4p5XUIw/edit?usp=sharing
Corrupt:
Death Penalties are multiplied by 3-4 times
3-4 Times the XP Debt compared to Non-Combatant
3-4 Times the Durability Loss compared to Non-Combatant
3-4 Times the % of Raw materials dropped compared to Non-Combatant
(Unique Pentalty only to corrupted)
% Chance to drop the gear you have equipped, or in your inventory
Respawn location becomes random instead at normal Respawn points
What? Your "I will make you kill me on an alt then relog onto main to kill corrupted you" abuse?
If a person is stupid enough to linger around an area like that, he deserves to get killed.
Also, it's almost impossible to "accidentally" kill someone.
TTK (Time To Kill) is not fast in Ashes.
If someone intentionally derails the topic or starts attacking others please use the report function accordingly so Staff can be alerted.
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Welcome to runescape's pve vs pvp. People literally go into the wilderness in welfare gear to minimize loss for the various content there that isn't strictly pvp. Yes there are people who say pvp should be removed from osrs but there are still people who go there. Its certainly not as active as pve parts of the game but theres enough going on that plenty of non pkers whine about getting killed. If theres something to be gained people will do it.
There are some similarities between Ashes, BDO and L2, but for every similar system, the details are completely different. When the details are completely different, you get completely different results.
As to whether or not people will use caravans - most of the time they won't have the choice, at least logically speaking.
Resource spawn locations will come and go, but player infrastructure will remain in one place as long as that place remains (aka, as long as the node isn't sieged).
If you are set up to process various metal ores in to metal ingots, and the closest spawn of one of those ores is four nodes over, you have three choices for how to get them to your processing facility - either in your inventory, on a pack mount (mule) or in a caravan.
No matter which of these three options you go for, your materials are able to be taken by other players. if you opt for a caravan, then there is no corruption system.
If you opt to use a mule, you are basically telling players around you that you are carrying stuff and have no effective ability to defend yourself (if you could defend yourself you would be using a caravan). Basically, you are wearing a sign around your neck saying "free loot".
If you opt to carry stuff in your backpack, you are not really standing out as a particular target for PvP, and so may not be attacked.
The problem here is in volume, If you opt to use a mule, you would need to do 10 runs to make up the volume of one caravan. If you opt to use your backpack, you are looking at 100 runs to make up that same volume. With the probability that you won't have use of fast travel, attempting to carry resources across a few nodes without a caravan would be a full time endeavor in Ashes.
The potential to purchase the items from an AH/marketplace also doesn't really exist, as if you purchase them, you are purchasing them in the node they are in and then need to transport them. Since the resources in discussion here are not harvested in the node you are in, the people selling them probably have them listed in the node they were harvested in.
While it is possible that someone could transport the resources to a different node and sell them, or you could buy resources on the condition that they are transported, both of these would then simply shift the above options to a different player, rather than negate the caravan system.
What will end up happening is people will run caravans, but they will usually have some form of player escort with them. Whether that is friends, guildmates, business partners or mercenaries is up to the individual player and their circumstance, but that is what will happen.
The only potential way to avoid caravans is if you live in a scientific metropolis, and the resources are also within the ZoI of that metropolis. This is the only way to get any form of fast travel, and even then it is restricted - and even if you can port from close to the resource location to your destination, you are still talking 100 return trips to make up for one caravans worth of materials.
what happened to your first account?
Ashes of creation and the PvX system will not be for everyone.
Yes, and the amount that is lost will not be small considered it is mulitplied 3-4 times if you die as corrupt.
So sure you can avoid losing items that way, however the time needed to regain that experience, will be longer than if you did the quests to get rid of the corruption, so it's actually less efficient in the end anyways.
So the "friend can kill me" argument is trully invalid.
Not to mention that your respawn is completely random if you are corrupt, so after 1st death, you have to try and survive long enough for your friend to come and kill you again, which will be hard.
And the items will require much more repair
(which means you need materials, only gold is not enough to repair things in Ashes)
If you think it's bad is your problem however.
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