Wandering Mist wrote: » It's a bit of a catch 22 for developers. On the one hand you want to provide some kind of progression whenever you make a new expansion. However, as you noted, any kind of added character progression, like increasing the max level, runs the risk of making previous content irrelevant, along with a bunch of other issues that occur later down the line, such as power creep and stat inflation. WoW is an odd case simply because it has been around for so long. Most games don't last more than 10 years before they die so there is limited time to run into major issues with power creep or stat inflation. WoW has been around for 15 years and has had so many expansions at this point that those problems are inevitable. Of course, you can always follow GW2's example and not increase the max level with a new expansion, but you still need some form of character progression, which GW2 does with the elite specialisations and map exploration. The thing is that even without increasing the character level, you still experience power creep and old content becoming redundant. Sure it's less noticeable than in a game like WoW but it's still there. FFXIV tried to tackle the problem of redundancy with its mandatory story and duty roulette system, but this causes yet more issues.
Caeryl wrote: » I’d rather see some minor level cap increases when we get significant expansions. Horizontal progression (no level increases) just shifts from a straightforward exp gathering process to RNG based gear hunting.
unknownsystemerror wrote: » One thing that people are forgetting is that DLC are free (well, covered in your $15 sub) with Ashes. One of the sticking points for those that release expansions and such is that you have to buy them to experience the new content and grind out the new gear levels. Not here.
Asag wrote: » I personaly belive, that increasing level cap, does not affect gameplay, unles you put catch up mechanic to the game... if new player need to spend same amount of time to reach max level as you than its all good. Than if there are some kind of weekly, monthly chalanges that will slow down catch up of new players, you can still have meaningfull progress for new player, and yet keep old players ahead to let them feel like theyr time investement was worth. Simply put.. Developers need to keep in mind, that MMORPG is highly time investment game, and newcommers should NOT be able to catch up to leading people fast. Becouse lets be real, MMO where every single player has same amount of power non matter how much time they spend in game is totaly bad .... MMO's ARE NOT FAIR, and SHOULD NOT BE FAIR! People who spend more time, should always be ahead of curve than people who play few hours a week
rikardp98 wrote: » Asag wrote: » I personaly belive, that increasing level cap, does not affect gameplay, unles you put catch up mechanic to the game... if new player need to spend same amount of time to reach max level as you than its all good. Than if there are some kind of weekly, monthly chalanges that will slow down catch up of new players, you can still have meaningfull progress for new player, and yet keep old players ahead to let them feel like theyr time investement was worth. Simply put.. Developers need to keep in mind, that MMORPG is highly time investment game, and newcommers should NOT be able to catch up to leading people fast. Becouse lets be real, MMO where every single player has same amount of power non matter how much time they spend in game is totaly bad .... MMO's ARE NOT FAIR, and SHOULD NOT BE FAIR! People who spend more time, should always be ahead of curve than people who play few hours a week That's another problem that one get when increasing the level cap, it will be harder for new players to reach the so called "end game" and maybe scare some way from the game. Catch up mechanic in that sense can be good, like ZG in wow classic, but it there is a fine line where catch up mechanic become really bad for the game. So not only do the developers need to think about the power creep with each new level cap, but also how to handle new players after that increase in level cap. And it is very true what you said, MMOs are not fair and should never be fair.
Wandering Mist wrote: » The problem with that mentality is the issue of time spent outweighing player skill, which to me shouldn't happen. If you have a system where players who come to the game late or can't play as much as the basement dwellers have no chance of catching up, they will just quit. If you can't pay your sub fee for a month and come back to find that you are behind without any chance of catching up, you will just quit. Over time more and more people will drop out and without catchup mechanics, you won't get any new players coming in. The result is the player base gets smaller and smaller until the game dies entirely.
Asag wrote: » Wandering Mist wrote: » The problem with that mentality is the issue of time spent outweighing player skill, which to me shouldn't happen. If you have a system where players who come to the game late or can't play as much as the basement dwellers have no chance of catching up, they will just quit. If you can't pay your sub fee for a month and come back to find that you are behind without any chance of catching up, you will just quit. Over time more and more people will drop out and without catchup mechanics, you won't get any new players coming in. The result is the player base gets smaller and smaller until the game dies entirely. Not really.... When new player join any MMORPG, they have the advantage of: 1 - Old players have ALTS 2 - Cheap equipment in Auction House that will increase your progress as new player over old players what they had to deal with when there was nothing to buy 3 - Many guides will be already out, tactics on dungeons etc. 4 - You can make higher leveled friend to help you level faster 5 - As new player, there will be tons of oportunities in already established NODES (lvl 4) to earn money, and quipment easy * Probably there could be some kind to STARTER PACK for new players when they buy the game when servers will be already years online, with some consumable packs and basic items witch would not be "pay to win" becouse high level people would not even care about low level potions and armors to be given out for free by developers.
Wandering Mist wrote: » In your previous post you were talking about a system which basically boils down to however puts the most time into the game has the strongest character and there is no way to by-pass that, and you believe that that is a good way of designing an mmorpg.
This might be going off-topic, but.......Why do you believe that mmorpgs shouldn't be fair? I don't understand this mentality at all.
George Black wrote: » You dont like the lv cap/gear expansion content BECAUSE you played wow and eso. The mmorpg types you have experienced are limited. Here are my thoughts: In ESO the gear appearance and gear strength are not connected. Imagine if all you had was CP160 with tier 1 Breton looks and the strength of Ashen Grip and the new expansion brought CP170 looking like Covenant or tier 4 Breton with the power of warriors Fury. But that's not the case is it? Because in stupid ESO a CP160 guy and a CP810 can both wear Warriors Fury. The game also revolves around ez story mode and repetitive dungeon runs. You can craft a new crafted set in 15 minutes and you are rdy to queue for cyro or bg. A new dungeon gear might take you a day to collect. The gear sets WAY TOO MANY and appearance has nothing to do with them. That is why I wouldnt like, like you also dont, changing CP160 to CP170. In other mmorpgs the content built around ez story questing map that you finish in 4h and new dungeons to run until you drop the gear you need. In other mmorpgs a new expansion means a map addition with new open hunting grounds for you to spend MONTHS on, unlocking new class skills with the new lv cap, and new gear that takes A LOT OF TIME to craft, with an appearance that conveys more prestige and power than the previous expansions highest gear. Having reached those new goals means you had months of fun open world gameplay and now you are stronger than those who havent done so yet. And then you have games like AA and BDO that you are stuck with one only playstyle or even character, since your gear took you 4 years to enchant to competitive lv. And that is something I would never spend time on again. Btw, why would you want AoC to follow the ESO gear model? Wouldnt that make AoC ESO2?
