FuryBladeborne wrote: » MMO's suffer from content becoming ignored over time. Keeping low level content relevant as characters max out is difficult. The current plan for Ashes is to place additional content for high level characters in low level areas as nodes level up. This will keep higher characters moving through all areas of the game. The intent is that this will create community interaction and improve the activity of low level areas.
FuryBladeborne wrote: » What going to happen is that people are going to call their high level friends or guild members or get on their mains to fight over these dungeons.
noaani wrote: » FuryBladeborne wrote: » This isn't quite how it is. The idea is that as nodes level, all the content adjusts. An area that is a low level area now will be a high level area with a different combination of node states. . Except that is exactly how it is. From 19:30 to 23:00 in the interview with Steven Sherif today: https://youtube.com/watch?v=H0LQSMT83L0 Steven describes that there will be points of interest around each node that will open higher content as the node advances while leaving lower content in existence. A specific example given was if you are mining at the correct area for your level and the node advances to level 3, a dungeon right next to where you are mining will open up due to an archaeologist being attracted to the level 3 node. Steven specified that this is to increase high and low level player interaction and induct people into guilds, etc. "FuryBladeborne wrote: » What going to happen is that people are going to call their high level friends or guild members or get on their mains to fight over these dungeons. I would consider this to be uncommon. I won't say that it won't happen, because it probably will. However, a player doing it will probably only do it once." Whether the situation will be common remains to be seen. I think that it will become more common over time as more people max level. The problem will also become worse for new players as the game ages which is bad for the longevity of the game. "In terms of the idea in your OP, as far as I am aware, the developers are considering a system along these lines." If you mean that there will be a scaling system that could include de-leveling system, currently there is not. If they are considering it then that is great, but wanted to start a post about why a de-leveling should be considered.
FuryBladeborne wrote: » This isn't quite how it is. The idea is that as nodes level, all the content adjusts. An area that is a low level area now will be a high level area with a different combination of node states. .
FuryBladeborne wrote: » Additional information explaining the problems with high level and low level character interactions. I removed this from my initial post to get the point across quicker. As Steven has stated, Ashes will not include level scaling because it largely negates the rewards of progression. I agree with this when scaling characters up. For example, in ESO (that is a generally great game in other ways) characters are scaled to max level at the start of the game. Leveling does not feel very satisfying and the world feels much less challenging. MMO's suffer from content becoming ignored over time. Keeping low level content relevant as characters max out is difficult. The current plan for Ashes is to place additional content for high level characters in low level areas as nodes level up. This will keep higher characters moving through all areas of the game. The intent is that this will create community interaction and improve the activity of low level areas. A problem with high level characters in low level areas is when high level characters start interacting with the areas, it destroys the experience for players in the correct area for their level range. If your trying to fight a boss or complete a quest and high level characters keep killing everything in one shot while being invulnerable, your probably not going to have an enjoyable time. Another problem is open world dungeons. These dungeons are intended to cause PVP conflict for possession. What I see happening is that people are going to call their high level friends or guild members or get on their mains to fight over these dungeons. The result is, the mobs or bosses are probably getting wiped out by high level characters; and, low level players are most likely getting one shot during the PVP while having little or no impact on the situation. All of this totals into what is probably an unpleasant experience for the characters that should be leveling through the area.
FuryBladeborne wrote: » Except that is exactly how it is. From 19:30 to 23:00 in the interview with Steven Sherif today: https://youtube.com/watch?v=H0LQSMT83L0 Steven describes that there will be points of interest around each node that will open higher content as the node advances while leaving lower content in existence. A specific example given was if you are mining at the correct area for your level and the node advances to level 3, a dungeon right next to where you are mining will open up due to an archaeologist being attracted to the level 3 node. Steven specified that this is to increase high and low level player interaction and induct people into guilds, etc.
If you mean that there will be a scaling system that could include de-leveling system, currently there is not. If they are considering it then that is great, but wanted to start a post about why a de-leveling should be considered.
BlackBrony wrote: » FuryBladeborne wrote: » PvP one shot = corrupted = losing stuff, so no, high levels won't be going around one shotting people because the XP debt is just too high. . High level players one shot mobs (including bosses) which degrades the experience for players in the correct area for their level.
FuryBladeborne wrote: » PvP one shot = corrupted = losing stuff, so no, high levels won't be going around one shotting people because the XP debt is just too high. .
noaani wrote: » FuryBladeborne wrote: » The example Steven gave was in relation to a single node level, which will see the max level of content in that nodes ZoI go up by roughly 10 levels. My issue is about the impact of high level characters in low level areas. I used an example of a max level character in a low level area to make the issue clear. There will be POI around nodes that include all levels of content that the node has opened. All levels of content are intended to be intermingled for a metropolis.
FuryBladeborne wrote: » The example Steven gave was in relation to a single node level, which will see the max level of content in that nodes ZoI go up by roughly 10 levels.
noaani wrote: » FuryBladeborne wrote: » There is no deleveling system, there is an experience debt system. The same system as in several other games. This will be a massive deterrent to anyone not at max level, though it is yet to be seen what deterrent there will be for max level players in relation to experience. However, at that level, the gear deterrent becomes much more pronounced. However, since we know that there will be level cap increases post launch, players will not want to accumulate too much experience debt at max level. This post is not about experience debt. It is about level scaling high level characters down to the match the area they are in to prevent various problems that high level characters can cause in low level areas and the fact that high and low level areas will be intermingled around major cities in Ashes.
FuryBladeborne wrote: » There is no deleveling system, there is an experience debt system. The same system as in several other games. This will be a massive deterrent to anyone not at max level, though it is yet to be seen what deterrent there will be for max level players in relation to experience. However, at that level, the gear deterrent becomes much more pronounced. However, since we know that there will be level cap increases post launch, players will not want to accumulate too much experience debt at max level.
FuryBladeborne wrote: » noaani wrote: » FuryBladeborne wrote: » There is no deleveling system, there is an experience debt system. The same system as in several other games. This will be a massive deterrent to anyone not at max level, though it is yet to be seen what deterrent there will be for max level players in relation to experience. However, at that level, the gear deterrent becomes much more pronounced. However, since we know that there will be level cap increases post launch, players will not want to accumulate too much experience debt at max level. This post is not about experience debt. It is about level scaling high level characters down to the match the area they are in to prevent various problems that high level characters can cause in low level areas and the fact that high and low level areas will be intermingled around major cities in Ashes. You're finding problems where there are none. Why would a high level player go kill mobs, you just fix that with higher respawn rates. If gear degrades there must be a reason to engage in killing stuff. Mobs don't drop gear, don't drop coins, they drop certificates.
BlackBrony wrote: » FuryBladeborne wrote: » noaani wrote: » FuryBladeborne wrote: » You're finding problems where there are none. Why would a high level player go kill mobs, you just fix that with higher respawn rates. If gear degrades there must be a reason to engage in killing stuff. Mobs don't drop gear, don't drop coins, they drop certificates. High level and low level areas are mixed = high level and low level players are near one another. I think that there will be disputes between low level players that will result in high level players getting involved. This will probably cause many problems some of which will be over open world dungeons since there is a PVP focus in them. If high level characters show up to help lower players with PVP in an open world dungeon, I don't think it will be fun for the players in the correct area for their level. Low levels will not be contributing and may be getting killed, AOE's will be wiping mobs and bosses in one hit. The general effect on open world dungeons will be negative. I think it will be negative in other areas as well, but I think that I have described my point as much as I care to unless something meaningful is added.
FuryBladeborne wrote: » noaani wrote: » FuryBladeborne wrote: » You're finding problems where there are none. Why would a high level player go kill mobs, you just fix that with higher respawn rates. If gear degrades there must be a reason to engage in killing stuff. Mobs don't drop gear, don't drop coins, they drop certificates. High level and low level areas are mixed = high level and low level players are near one another. I think that there will be disputes between low level players that will result in high level players getting involved. This will probably cause many problems some of which will be over open world dungeons since there is a PVP focus in them. If high level characters show up to help lower players with PVP in an open world dungeon, I don't think it will be fun for the players in the correct area for their level. Low levels will not be contributing and may be getting killed, AOE's will be wiping mobs and bosses in one hit. The general effect on open world dungeons will be negative. I think it will be negative in other areas as well, but I think that I have described my point as much as I care to unless something meaningful is added.
noaani wrote: » FuryBladeborne wrote: » You're finding problems where there are none. Why would a high level player go kill mobs, you just fix that with higher respawn rates. If gear degrades there must be a reason to engage in killing stuff. Mobs don't drop gear, don't drop coins, they drop certificates. High level and low level areas are mixed = high level and low level players are near one another. I think that there will be disputes between low level players that will result in high level players getting involved. This will probably cause many problems some of which will be over open world dungeons since there is a PVP focus in them. If high level characters show up to help lower players with PVP in an open world dungeon, I don't think it will be fun for the players in the correct area for their level. Low levels will not be contributing and may be getting killed, AOE's will be wiping mobs and bosses in one hit. The general effect on open world dungeons will be negative. I think it will be negative in other areas as well, but I think that I have described my point as much as I care to unless something meaningful is added.
FuryBladeborne wrote: » You're finding problems where there are none. Why would a high level player go kill mobs, you just fix that with higher respawn rates. If gear degrades there must be a reason to engage in killing stuff. Mobs don't drop gear, don't drop coins, they drop certificates.
FuryBladeborne wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » FuryBladeborne wrote: » noaani wrote: » FuryBladeborne wrote: » You're finding problems where there are none. Why would a high level player go kill mobs, you just fix that with higher respawn rates. If gear degrades there must be a reason to engage in killing stuff. Mobs don't drop gear, don't drop coins, they drop certificates. High level and low level areas are mixed = high level and low level players are near one another. I think that there will be disputes between low level players that will result in high level players getting involved. This will probably cause many problems some of which will be over open world dungeons since there is a PVP focus in them. If high level characters show up to help lower players with PVP in an open world dungeon, I don't think it will be fun for the players in the correct area for their level. Low levels will not be contributing and may be getting killed, AOE's will be wiping mobs and bosses in one hit. The general effect on open world dungeons will be negative. I think it will be negative in other areas as well, but I think that I have described my point as much as I care to unless something meaningful is added. I dont understand the issue. That's what creates gameplay, wars, friction, enemies and allies. I'm really having a hard time understanding your point. Let's say level 40 Bob goes to level 20 area and starts killing all the wolves because he wants to farm wolves certificates. Here comes Betty and says "could you please leave some wolves for me Bob?" Outcomes 1- Bob says "lol screw you". Now Betty knows Bob is a unpolite and might said that to other people 2- Betty calls her high level friends to help kill Bob 3- Betty goes do something else? The games WANTS to create conflict, that's why you have all of these system, because conflict creates player agency. It seems you're not taking into consideration the effects of corruption, gear decay and traveling time.
BlackBrony wrote: » FuryBladeborne wrote: » noaani wrote: » FuryBladeborne wrote: » You're finding problems where there are none. Why would a high level player go kill mobs, you just fix that with higher respawn rates. If gear degrades there must be a reason to engage in killing stuff. Mobs don't drop gear, don't drop coins, they drop certificates. High level and low level areas are mixed = high level and low level players are near one another. I think that there will be disputes between low level players that will result in high level players getting involved. This will probably cause many problems some of which will be over open world dungeons since there is a PVP focus in them. If high level characters show up to help lower players with PVP in an open world dungeon, I don't think it will be fun for the players in the correct area for their level. Low levels will not be contributing and may be getting killed, AOE's will be wiping mobs and bosses in one hit. The general effect on open world dungeons will be negative. I think it will be negative in other areas as well, but I think that I have described my point as much as I care to unless something meaningful is added. I dont understand the issue. That's what creates gameplay, wars, friction, enemies and allies. I'm really having a hard time understanding your point. Let's say level 40 Bob goes to level 20 area and starts killing all the wolves because he wants to farm wolves certificates. Here comes Betty and says "could you please leave some wolves for me Bob?" Outcomes 1- Bob says "lol screw you". Now Betty knows Bob is a unpolite and might said that to other people 2- Betty calls her high level friends to help kill Bob 3- Betty goes do something else? The games WANTS to create conflict, that's why you have all of these system, because conflict creates player agency. It seems you're not taking into consideration the effects of corruption, gear decay and traveling time.
FuryBladeborne wrote: » noaani wrote: » FuryBladeborne wrote: » You're finding problems where there are none. Why would a high level player go kill mobs, you just fix that with higher respawn rates. If gear degrades there must be a reason to engage in killing stuff. Mobs don't drop gear, don't drop coins, they drop certificates. High level and low level areas are mixed = high level and low level players are near one another. I think that there will be disputes between low level players that will result in high level players getting involved. This will probably cause many problems some of which will be over open world dungeons since there is a PVP focus in them. If high level characters show up to help lower players with PVP in an open world dungeon, I don't think it will be fun for the players in the correct area for their level. Low levels will not be contributing and may be getting killed, AOE's will be wiping mobs and bosses in one hit. The general effect on open world dungeons will be negative. I think it will be negative in other areas as well, but I think that I have described my point as much as I care to unless something meaningful is added. I dont understand the issue. That's what creates gameplay, wars, friction, enemies and allies. I'm really having a hard time understanding your point. Let's say level 40 Bob goes to level 20 area and starts killing all the wolves because he wants to farm wolves certificates. Here comes Betty and says "could you please leave some wolves for me Bob?" Outcomes 1- Bob says "lol screw you". Now Betty knows Bob is a unpolite and might said that to other people 2- Betty calls her high level friends to help kill Bob 3- Betty goes do something else? The games WANTS to create conflict, that's why you have all of these system, because conflict creates player agency. It seems you're not taking into consideration the effects of corruption, gear decay and traveling time.
FuryBladeborne wrote: » My issue is about the impact of high level characters in low level areas. I used an example of a max level character in a low level area to make the issue clear. There will be POI around nodes that include all levels of content that the node has opened. All levels of content are intended to be intermingled for a metropolis.
FuryBladeborne wrote: » This post is not about experience debt. It is about level scaling high level characters down to the match the area they are in to prevent various problems that high level characters can cause in low level areas and the fact that high and low level areas will be intermingled around major cities in Ashes.
noaani wrote: » While this is true, you have to keep in mind that the zone of control of a metropolis level node will be 10 - 20% of the games world. With the game world being 480²km, and the best guess for each continent in vanilla WoW being roughly 144²km, it kind of makes it seem like the issue that you think you are talking about wont actually be an issue.
noaani wrote: » So yes, this thread is indeed in part about experience debt.
Amel wrote: » Get that scaling garbage out of here.
FuryBladeborne wrote: » The fact that high level characters can kill low levels repeatedly and accumulate experience debt is a separate issue. I simply wanted to point out that a well made level scaling system can make the game more enjoyable. I am not sure that Steven Sherif has noticed that as he seems to comment on the problems with level scaling while increasing levels.
FuryBladeborne wrote: » Amel wrote: » Get that scaling garbage out of here. Since I am only talking about scaling down, you must really want to be able one shot every mob while only taking 1's from all attacks. Sounds like a blast.
