PVP Corruption is a broken Prisoner's Dilemma

Technically (and it actually is a repeated game which most people get wrong about game theory), both parties benefit from engaging in the fight with each other, both go purple and take a reduction. However, as so many people who hate PVP have already described, they do not under and circumstances want to fight.

Currently anyone who doesnt want to fight can spite the attacker by dying a few times to rack up their corruption until they are readily killed with the current debuffs, or otherwise greatly inconvenienced. Ganking is nearly a non issue in MMOs except for a very slim minority, which is why i think the corruption is over-punishing.

PVP in MMOs has always been about resources. If I want to grind at the best exp/hr spot, and someone comes to contest, I will flag up and try to kill them. If they kill me, they deserve the spot and ill go somewhere else, if i beat them, im staying. If its close maybe i try a few more times. The problem comes when someone isnt strong enough to kill you for the spot but can keep taking mobs forcing you to kill them or leave anyway. NBD if you can just keep killing them over and over with only a reasonable nuisance. Similar experience to control rare gathering resources.

Maybe thing will work out where most people will fight back so that everyone loses less in the exchange, but i doubt it.

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Leiloni

Healawin wrote: »

The easiest way to fix this would be to have a wow type ghost system where the non-pvp player has to take a decent chunk of time to get back to their corpse. That way, if you go corrupt to kill them, they not only lose items but also are removed from the area for a bit so you can kill the mobs you need or gather the crafting material you want.

I think this is a good idea - have the person spawn far away if green so they don't continually come back and karma bomb the attacker.

But I also think if balanced correctly, the death penalty can help as well. If they die while green, they have a 50% higher death penalty than if they flag up and attack back. Gaining XP debt, dropping gatherables, stat loss, etc. If that's balanced well enough it should be a deterrent to merely standing there and forcing someone to go red. At the very least if they know they'll die, might as well flag up and try to defend themselves.

Otherwise, I almost wonder with that death penalty if they might regret karma bombing the person, because they'd just continue to gain XP debt and lose stats/gatherables. I mean if they're out there trying to farm items to craft or whatever, continually dying is pointless because you'll be losing more than you gain.

Leiloni

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

For example, you only get corruption if you kill them .. So you could still CC them or whatever to get the nodes/kills. You're playing aggressively here, but you haven't killed and looted them. If they try to do the same to you, then they are a combatant and you can put an end to their trolling.

Yes this is an important note that I think not everyone realizes. You won't get corruption for hitting someone, only upon their death. That's huge IMO.

Fathym

Leiloni wrote: »

Healawin wrote: »

The easiest way to fix this would be to have a wow type ghost system where the non-pvp player has to take a decent chunk of time to get back to their corpse. That way, if you go corrupt to kill them, they not only lose items but also are removed from the area for a bit so you can kill the mobs you need or gather the crafting material you want.

I think this is a good idea - have the person spawn far away if green so they don't continually come back and karma bomb the attacker.

But I also think if balanced correctly, the death penalty can help as well. If they die while green, they have a 50% higher death penalty than if they flag up and attack back. Gaining XP debt, dropping gatherables, stat loss, etc. If that's balanced well enough it should be a deterrent to merely standing there and forcing someone to go red. At the very least if they know they'll die, might as well flag up and try to defend themselves.

Otherwise, I almost wonder with that death penalty if they might regret karma bombing the person, because they'd just continue to gain XP debt and lose stats/gatherables. I mean if they're out there trying to farm items to craft or whatever, continually dying is pointless because you'll be losing more than you gain.

Ya i was thinking about dipping a little bit into all three (item loss, xp loss, time loss from getting corpse) so each one doesn't have to be as punishing on the player while, as whole being enough of a headache to prevent griefing.
For example: Without a corpse walk, you would most likely have to hit a player with an XP dept of around 15 minutes of playtime along with the item drops to prevent griefing. If, however, you add a corpse walk, you make the corpse walk 6 minutes and add an XP debt of 6 minutes. This penalizes the player less while maintaining the same effect. My numbers may be slightly off but I think the premise makes sense.

Aardvark

Leiloni wrote: »

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

For example, you only get corruption if you kill them .. So you could still CC them or whatever to get the nodes/kills. You're playing aggressively here, but you haven't killed and looted them. If they try to do the same to you, then they are a combatant and you can put an end to their trolling.

Yes this is an important note that I think not everyone realizes. You won't get corruption for hitting someone, only upon their death. That's huge IMO.

Which brings in trolling/griefing type #2
Wait til they pull that big ass quest mob they need to kill hit them from behind until they are at 10% health then leave them alone and it kills them. Every time they pull it do it again and again and you can grief for an unlimited time with no corruption. This is clearly a huge hole in the system

Leiloni

Aardvark wrote: »

Leiloni wrote: »

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

For example, you only get corruption if you kill them .. So you could still CC them or whatever to get the nodes/kills. You're playing aggressively here, but you haven't killed and looted them. If they try to do the same to you, then they are a combatant and you can put an end to their trolling.

Yes this is an important note that I think not everyone realizes. You won't get corruption for hitting someone, only upon their death. That's huge IMO.

Which brings in trolling/griefing type #2
Wait til they pull that big ass quest mob they need to kill hit them from behind until they are at 10% health then leave them alone and it kills them. Every time they pull it do it again and again and you can grief for an unlimited time with no corruption. This is clearly a huge hole in the system

If you're already purple and some green player walks by into your AoE, they can also repeatedly grief you and force you red if all it takes is one hit. One hit is too easy to grief with and force corruption on someone who didn't want it.

If someone kills you once with mobs when you were at 10% health, I'm not sure that's griefing. If they do it over and over again that might be, but I'd have to ask why you're going back to that same spot over and over and letting them do it? Either kill them when you get back, or don't go back. That's a far easier problem to solve than the former.

Fathym

Aardvark wrote: »

Leiloni wrote: »

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

For example, you only get corruption if you kill them .. So you could still CC them or whatever to get the nodes/kills. You're playing aggressively here, but you haven't killed and looted them. If they try to do the same to you, then they are a combatant and you can put an end to their trolling.

Yes this is an important note that I think not everyone realizes. You won't get corruption for hitting someone, only upon their death. That's huge IMO.

Which brings in trolling/griefing type #2
Wait til they pull that big ass quest mob they need to kill hit them from behind until they are at 10% health then leave them alone and it kills them. Every time they pull it do it again and again and you can grief for an unlimited time with no corruption. This is clearly a huge hole in the system

Yes its a hole. A huge hole? Not so much. Just make it count as a PK if you did greater than 50% of their health in damage. If you already hit them for half of their health that shows intent to kill.

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