Flying Mounts should be a thing that people who have animal husbandry can make/breed

The Vindicator wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

It isn't the mounts themselves they want to be rare, it is the advantage that being able to fly gives these people that they want to be rare.

They can make normal flying mounts be the same speed and health of normal ground mounts and whatever, while the big epic dragon mounts are faster and stronger than them though.

Even if you're flying slower, you're still flying. Again, this is the part that gives the advantage.

The Vindicator wrote: »

Ratings for WoW TBC from different raters shows excellent scores:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft:_The_Burning_Crusade#Reception

Here's the issue with this.

In that wikipedia article, of all the reviews cited, only three are still readily available online. Of those three, only one even mentions flying mounts, and that mention is only to do with the fact that they exist. It doesn't go in to whether they are good or not.

Due to the limited number of sources cited, this would have been a poor thing to reference if you were trying to say that TBC was a good expansion - in an attempt to say one small part of TBC was good, it is essentially irrelevant.

Namil wrote: »

The Vindicator wrote: »

As someone who plays both, please clarify what you actually mean by this.

Random PvP interactions in the world rarely happen in retail WoW, they've added measures which make this less likely recently but up until then everyone would be flying rather than running around in the open world and completely avoid eachother. It's a fact and it shows, I shouldn't have to explain that if you play both or have followed the game for many expansions.

The Vindicator wrote: »

Flying mounts can be targetable as well as any other mount, and can be killed thereby forcing the player to dismount, therefore the risk is still present.

You realise these players could just fly through the path of least resistance, avoid all populated or high risk zones and get exactly where they need to be? and fast too, even if you limit speed to be equal to ground mounts you're still avoiding venturing over the terrain by flying over everything. What's stopping players from just flying so high up that they're just unseen by most of the player-base?

Just because the mount could potentially be killed doesn't mean it doesn't defeat the purpose of the Caravan system entirely and severely reduce the risk of going into the open world. I'd rather not have bird fights 300 metres above the ground.

"Random PvP interactions in the world rarely happen in retail WoW, they've added measures which make this less likely recently but up until then everyone would be flying rather than running around in the open world and completely avoid eachother. It's a fact and it shows, I shouldn't have to explain that if you play both or have followed the game for many expansions."

This literally has nothing to do with flying mounts, people were still raiding cities and doing world pvp even after TBC (hello, uh Wintergrasp, Tol Barad????). The reason PvP action in the game has become severely lessened, is ever since Legion the game has become more casual and PvE/leveling/raiding/and question in general are being pushed forcefully, while PvP has been completely gutted and is a shadow of itself former self, if anything like it at all and thereby PvP as a WHOLE is affected.

Alot of WoWs playerbase nowadays are PvEers/questers/raiders, because alot of the hardcore PvPers/ PvE/PvPer population ( like myself) stopped playing seriously after legion completely ruined PvP (go read the forums to see what im talking about). Another thing is heirlooms also ruined PvP, because your normal player who is leveling his first main isnt completely outfitted with heirlooms like everyones alt is nowaydays, is going to join a bg with his dungeon green and blues that he grinded for hours to get, only to get rekt by some dudes alt whose main just bought all the heirlooms for. Its completely demoralizing and just a waste of time. There is a reason why twinks dont exist anymore. Actually, i dont think YOU have played WoW in any serious capacity, if you are actually telling me that out of all the bad things that have hampered PvP over the years, flying mounts are to blame... -_-

"You realise these players could just fly through the path of least resistance, avoid all populated or high risk zones and get exactly where they need to be? and fast too, even if you limit speed to be equal to ground mounts you're still avoiding venturing over the terrain by flying over everything. What's stopping players from just flying so high up that they're just unseen by most of the player-base?"

Simply by adding an invisible wall ceiling, even WoW has this, make it so that it doesn't spare the player from being out of a LONG ranged attacks range.

"Just because the mount could potentially be killed doesn't mean it doesn't defeat the purpose of the Caravan system entirely and severely reduce the risk of going into the open world. I'd rather not have bird fights 300 metres above the ground."

How does this defeat the caravan system, please explain more in depth instead of making such sweeping general statements.

This is an example of non-constructive feedback, and I don't mean any disrespect or even to single you out or anything. I totally respect your opinion on wanting flying in an MMO, but the developers have been pretty clear on what kind of game they want to make.

We're all just searching for the MMO of our dreams, these days... Lost in the vast oceans of addiction, swallowed by currents of lies and waves of disappointment, only to be churned up and spat out upon the shores of yet another 'promise' of hope, that inevitably leads us back into the darkness of the waters.

Ahem.

I think you should give it a chance and see just how much fun you can have in their world without flying. If you check out the recent and older interviews, and some of the wiki .. You might even come to the same conclusion as us that no-flying is way better!

If not, and it's something that's very important to you, this unfortunately is probably not the game for you, but I hope that's not the case.

noaani wrote: »

The Vindicator wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

It isn't the mounts themselves they want to be rare, it is the advantage that being able to fly gives these people that they want to be rare.

They can make normal flying mounts be the same speed and health of normal ground mounts and whatever, while the big epic dragon mounts are faster and stronger than them though.

Even if you're flying slower, you're still flying. Again, this is the part that gives the advantage.

The Vindicator wrote: »

Ratings for WoW TBC from different raters shows excellent scores:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft:_The_Burning_Crusade#Reception

Here's the issue with this.

In that wikipedia article, of all the reviews cited, only three are still readily available online. Of those three, only one even mentions flying mounts, and that mention is only to do with the fact that they exist. It doesn't go in to whether they are good or not.

Due to the limited number of sources cited, this would have been a poor thing to reference if you were trying to say that TBC was a good expansion - in an attempt to say one small part of TBC was good, it is essentially irrelevant.

Flying mounts were literally a UNIQUE FEATURE of TBC, go watch the literal TRAILER.

"Generally flying is not something that we're going to be doing in this game and there's a lot of reasons for that: Some of it is economic, some of it is ... you create this really great looking world and we don't want you flying over all the time." – Jeffrey Bard

"At any given point in time you're gonna see anywhere from 10 to maybe at max I would say around 20 based off of the legendary world boss timers. Probably 20 people who have flying abilities." – Steven Sharif

These are some quotes that may help you understand the direction of this game and the creators vision.

The good news is, if you ever unlock a flying mount you will keep the skin and be able to use it as a non-flying mount (probably), at least, that's what I recall them saying in a video one time. Maybe.

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

This is an example of non-constructive feedback, and I don't mean any disrespect or even to single you out or anything. I totally respect your opinion on wanting flying in an MMO, but the developers have been pretty clear on what kind of game they want to make.

We're all just searching for the MMO of our dreams, these days... Lost in the vast oceans of addiction, swallowed by currents of lies and waves of disappointment, only to be churned up and spat out upon the shores of yet another 'promise' of hope, that inevitably leads us back into the darkness of the waters.

Ahem.

I think you should give it a chance and see just how much fun you can have in their world without flying. If you check out the recent and older interviews, and some of the wiki .. You might even come to the same conclusion as us that no-flying is way better!

If not, and it's something that's very important to you, this unfortunately is probably not the game for you, but I hope that's not the case.

Lmao what was the point of that quote, it literally is irrelevant the the topic at hand...

"I think you should give it a chance and see just how much fun you can have in their world without flying. If you check out the recent and older interviews, and some of the wiki .. You might even come to the same conclusion as us that no-flying is way better!"

Im totally cool with no one flying, and i mean NO. ONE. Except, its not going to be like that now is it.

On everything else i've heard about this game, i actually do like, this is my one gripe i have about it (and it is a pretty significant feature lets be honest here), i dont think im going to pass up a game on which i like 90% of things about it, and not the remaining 10%. I've compromised on far less, trust me.

The Vindicator wrote: »

Flying mounts were literally a UNIQUE FEATURE of TBC, go watch the literal TRAILER.

I didn't say they weren't.

I said that no one in the article you referenced talked about them.

If you want to support your position that flying mounts are good, then support that with other people saying they are good, not with people saying the thing in which they are a small feature was good.

FYI, almost no one thinks flying mounts in WoW were good. You are very much an outlier with that position.

The Vindicator wrote: »

hazardnumberseven wrote: »

This is an example of non-constructive feedback, and I don't mean any disrespect or even to single you out or anything. I totally respect your opinion on wanting flying in an MMO, but the developers have been pretty clear on what kind of game they want to make.

We're all just searching for the MMO of our dreams, these days... Lost in the vast oceans of addiction, swallowed by currents of lies and waves of disappointment, only to be churned up and spat out upon the shores of yet another 'promise' of hope, that inevitably leads us back into the darkness of the waters.

Ahem.

I think you should give it a chance and see just how much fun you can have in their world without flying. If you check out the recent and older interviews, and some of the wiki .. You might even come to the same conclusion as us that no-flying is way better!

If not, and it's something that's very important to you, this unfortunately is probably not the game for you, but I hope that's not the case.

Lmao what was the point of that quote, it literally is irrelevant the the topic at hand...

"I think you should give it a chance and see just how much fun you can have in their world without flying. If you check out the recent and older interviews, and some of the wiki .. You might even come to the same conclusion as us that no-flying is way better!"

Im totally cool with no one flying, and i mean NO. ONE. Except, its not going to be like that now is it.

On everything else i've heard about this game, i actually do like, this is my one gripe i have about it (and it is a pretty significant feature lets be honest here), i dont think im going to pass up a game on which i like 90% of things about it, and not the remaining 10%. I've compromised on far less, trust me.

It wasn't a quote. I've been in an abusive, long-term relationship with the MMO genre. I believe it is directly relevant to the topic at hand.

noaani wrote: »

The Vindicator wrote: »

Flying mounts were literally a UNIQUE FEATURE of TBC, go watch the literal TRAILER.

I didn't say they weren't.

I said that no one in the article you referenced talked about them.

If you want to support your position that flying mounts are good, then support that with other people saying they are good, not with people saying the thing in which they are a small feature was good.

FYI, almost no one thinks flying mounts in WoW were good. You are very much an outlier with that position.

Oh trust me, im totally aware of the community you come from, its the classic community, you people hate anything after classic. Trust me, you people ARENT the majority, you are a niche community. I dont know experience you had playing TBC, i remember back then when flying mounts came out, there were a HUGE deal. I have never personally encountered any retail player ever saying they hate flying mounts.

It's true. Flying mounts are one of WoW's biggest mistakes.
The developers themselves have acknowledged this mistake and try constantly and desperately to correct it by limiting flying with path-finder and totally locking it in certain high-level areas.

It's not really something that can be undone once it's done. There are endless articles on MMO websites about why and how exactly it is detrimental to the health and design of WoW.

But the entire discussion is pretty pointless, because we already know the stance of the developers and their reasons. They promised us the opposite of your suggestion and that makes it a pretty contentious sort of suggestion to make on the forum of the game that has promised not to do the thing you want them to do. Sorry!

phdmonster

Why are you ignoring the quotes from the Intrepid team? I thought you wanted evidence that they said what i told you 5 times already.

Namil

The Vindicator wrote: »

"Random PvP interactions in the world rarely happen in retail WoW, they've added measures which make this less likely recently but up until then everyone would be flying rather than running around in the open world and completely avoid eachother. It's a fact and it shows, I shouldn't have to explain that if you play both or have followed the game for many expansions."

This literally has nothing to do with flying mounts, people were still raiding cities and doing world pvp even after TBC (hello, uh Wintergrasp, Tol Barad????). The reason PvP action in the game has become severely lessened, is ever since Legion the game has become more casual and PvE/leveling/raiding/and question in general are being pushed forcefully, while PvP has been completely gutted and is a shadow of itself former self, if anything like it at all and thereby PvP as a WHOLE is affected.

Alot of WoWs playerbase nowadays are PvEers/questers/raiders, because alot of the hardcore PvPers/ PvE/PvPer population ( like myself) stopped playing seriously after legion completely ruined PvP (go read the forums to see what im talking about). Another thing is heirlooms also ruined PvP, because your normal player who is leveling his first main isnt completely outfitted with heirlooms like everyones alt is nowaydays, is going to join a bg with his dungeon green and blues that he grinded for hours to get, only to get rekt by some dudes alt whose main just bought all the heirlooms for. Its completely demoralizing and just a waste of time. There is a reason why twinks dont exist anymore. Actually, i dont think YOU have played WoW in any serious capacity, if you are actually telling me that out of all the bad things that have hampered PvP over the years, flying mounts are to blame... -_-

"You realise these players could just fly through the path of least resistance, avoid all populated or high risk zones and get exactly where they need to be? and fast too, even if you limit speed to be equal to ground mounts you're still avoiding venturing over the terrain by flying over everything. What's stopping players from just flying so high up that they're just unseen by most of the player-base?"

Simply by adding an invisible wall ceiling, even WoW has this, make it so that it doesn't spare the player from being out of a LONG ranged attacks range.

"Just because the mount could potentially be killed doesn't mean it doesn't defeat the purpose of the Caravan system entirely and severely reduce the risk of going into the open world. I'd rather not have bird fights 300 metres above the ground."

How does this defeat the caravan system, please explain more in depth instead of making such sweeping general statements.

Alright first off, yes it definitely does have something to do with flying mounts. Ask any actual player's opinion who aren't super casual or actually care about player interactions in the open world in the case of PvP. Wintergrasp is not RANDOM PvP, it had direct structured INCENTIVE to create PvP in that zone and literally the same with Tol Barad? You can't be serious here! And yes lower level PvP died a long time ago but pre-cap is not what matters and not what we're talking about and using that in an argument here is absolutely weak material. Open world RANDOM PvP that happens consistently and naturally throughout the world hasn't been relevant since before MoP, forget Legion. Why are you talking about instanced PvP, you're literally grasping at thin air.

Open world PvP has been such a non-factor for so long because of flying that people don't even care for it anymore, Blizzard don't even care about it anymore. They don't even try to fix how unbalanced it is, because flying mounts destroy 80% of the potential. Easy question to ask yourself even when so many things are dissuading people from PvP in the first place is 'Do you experience more or less random PvP before Pathfinder Part 2 is introduced?'.

People can flee with ease, fly over most players and avoid literally any interaction you can think of with the opposite faction unless you use the new net-o-matic.

The Vindicator wrote: »

"You realise these players could just fly through the path of least resistance, avoid all populated or high risk zones and get exactly where they need to be? and fast too, even if you limit speed to be equal to ground mounts you're still avoiding venturing over the terrain by flying over everything. What's stopping players from just flying so high up that they're just unseen by most of the player-base?"

Simply by adding an invisible wall ceiling, even WoW has this, make it so that it doesn't spare the player from being out of a LONG ranged attacks range.

I assume you chose to ignore my other points because you don't have a rebuttal, so I'm going to mostly ignore what you've said here. Great, an invisible ceiling solves essentially nothing apart from flying far vertically so they'll fly far horizontally.

The Vindicator wrote: »

"Just because the mount could potentially be killed doesn't mean it doesn't defeat the purpose of the Caravan system entirely and severely reduce the risk of going into the open world. I'd rather not have bird fights 300 metres above the ground."

How does this defeat the caravan system, please explain more in depth instead of making such sweeping general statements.

You can answer this one yourself, why would I transport goods in a caravan when I have a significantly safer alternative by flying over risk even if it might take me a couple extra runs? especially when I would be getting from A to B and securing my items much faster and minimising my time spent in the open world with all of my goods.

What are the benefits of flying apart from convenience in the face of laziness?

Caeryl

The Vindicator wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

The Vindicator wrote: »

Flying mounts were literally a UNIQUE FEATURE of TBC, go watch the literal TRAILER.

I didn't say they weren't.

I said that no one in the article you referenced talked about them.

If you want to support your position that flying mounts are good, then support that with other people saying they are good, not with people saying the thing in which they are a small feature was good.

FYI, almost no one thinks flying mounts in WoW were good. You are very much an outlier with that position.

Oh trust me, im totally aware of the community you come from, its the classic community, you people hate anything after classic. Trust me, you people ARENT the majority, you are a niche community. I dont know experience you had playing TBC, i remember back then when flying mounts came out, there were a HUGE deal. I have never personally encountered any retail player ever saying they hate flying mounts.

Yeah because players are selfish and don’t care if that feature messes up a good chunk of the game’s spirit so long as they save a few minutes of travel time.

Also, WoW Classic is far from niche. If anything it has established that players ENJOY and will pay for a more traditional MMO experience.

The Vindicator wrote: »

Oh trust me, im totally aware of the community you come from, its the classic community, you people hate anything after classic.

This is where you're wrong, well, one of several places you are wrong.

I hate anything WoW.

The game is an atrocity. A blight on the MMO genre. The McDonalds of online gaming - though is probably responsible for more overweight people.

But you are actually the first person I have ever heard say that they think flight in WoW was a good feature. I've heard dozens of people say it was the first step over the slipery slope for WoW.

In fact, I've argued against these people, a number of times, even on this games forums - that flight in games can be good, it is just that the way WoW did it was lazy (as is the case for most things in that game). I'm personally all for flying mounts in games - if they are done right.

That isn't the point here. The point here is that Intrepid want the ability to fly to be a reward that only 10 - 20 players on a server at any point in time are able to do.

It isn't about the type of mount, it isn't about the strength of the mount, it is about the ability to fly being one of the key rewards for the leader of a guild that owns a castle, or the mayor of a metropolis level node, or the player that loots the legendary egg. They have even given some of their reasons (one of which being the economy).

World of Warcraft is a prime example of the very reason AoC even exists. WoW has become the antithesis of the MMO genre and what a traditional MMO was.

The Vindicator wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

The Vindicator wrote: »

Flying mounts were literally a UNIQUE FEATURE of TBC, go watch the literal TRAILER.

I didn't say they weren't.

I said that no one in the article you referenced talked about them.

If you want to support your position that flying mounts are good, then support that with other people saying they are good, not with people saying the thing in which they are a small feature was good.

FYI, almost no one thinks flying mounts in WoW were good. You are very much an outlier with that position.

Oh trust me, im totally aware of the community you come from, its the classic community, you people hate anything after classic. Trust me, you people ARENT the majority, you are a niche community. I dont know experience you had playing TBC, i remember back then when flying mounts came out, there were a HUGE deal. I have never personally encountered any retail player ever saying they hate flying mounts.

Not entirely aware, trust me.

AoC is an MMO for MMO fans. A traditional MMO that takes the game back to the basics BEFORE World of Warcraft bastardized it. I am not saying WoW is a bad game, but it is a bad MMORPG.

The AoC community is not the "classic WoW" community, we are mostly, in fact .. far older than that. Classic WoW to most of us was already an abomination as far as MMOs go. To a traditional MMO player, classic WoW is a lot like what retail WoW is to a classic WoW player, if that makes sense.. Only in our case, the difference is much more severe and emotional, because we've been starved for content for many years now, in some cases waiting 15+ years for a 'real' MMO to show up again.

This game could be described as the opposite of WoW, in many ways. A lot of us here loathe WoW and consider it absolutely repulsive and a very powerful example of what not to do.

Namil

The Vindicator wrote: »

Oh trust me, im totally aware of the community you come from, its the classic community, you people hate anything after classic. Trust me, you people ARENT the majority, you are a niche community. I dont know experience you had playing TBC, i remember back then when flying mounts came out, there were a HUGE deal. I have never personally encountered any retail player ever saying they hate flying mounts.

This is totally delusional and you must keep to a very tight, uninformed and ignorant group.

Namil wrote: »

The Vindicator wrote: »

Oh trust me, im totally aware of the community you come from, its the classic community, you people hate anything after classic. Trust me, you people ARENT the majority, you are a niche community. I dont know experience you had playing TBC, i remember back then when flying mounts came out, there were a HUGE deal. I have never personally encountered any retail player ever saying they hate flying mounts.

This is totally delusional and you must keep to a very tight, uninformed and ignorant group.

Yes, the retail group who forms the majority of wows playerbase, is "very tight and uninformed and ignorant group" while the classic community who is only a MINORITY is a very open, informed and enlightened group of people, even though they literally hate on anything after classic, yup totally legit.