Full Loot PVP scene.

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Ashes was never intended to be full loot. It would not have received the backing that it has if it was. Corruption is not there as a "playstyle" It is a punishment. All stick, no carrot. If you feel you really have to kill people not willing to fight back, then you pay the penalty, in time sink and possible gear loss.

Effluvikoff

Noaani

Corruption was concieved and designed as a pure punishment.

It is not supposed to be an optional playstyle.

George_Black

Has any1 mmo with meaningful equipment systems ever done full loot upon death?
No, because the purpose of mmo is to build up your fantasy class, dress it up with nice looking gear and fitting bonuses, combine your weapon and class abilities to fill a combat role.

Losing your gear means that you have to recraft/farm it, instead of discovering new zones, and playing politics and war games.

Full loot is best left to SCUM and RUST; games that have one type of scenery, with the sole purpose of players to demonstrate their combat and survival skills, and even organise in much much smaller groups than mmo guilds.

I don't want to spend my time going back to get base iron swords and iron helmets every time I die. Nobody does in an mmo. I don't mind doing that in SCUM. Over there it's actually pretty fun, since the combat is basic, but the challenge is not being killed while you gather useful items.

If what you propose goes live, the solo purpose of the game would be to kill others to prevent them from looting you. Mmos are much more than just that.

As for the corruption system. It has successfully worked before in an open world mmo, with the same purpose. To prevent griefers going on a killing spree.
I will PK anybody that annoys me, talks shiet. Nothing prevents me from doing that, and even if I get killed as a Corrupt player, I won't get punished as much. I don't think you have all the facts about the system.

This is how the game is going to be. No point arguing in making this mmo, with its so many activities, just kill and loot gear.

Caeryl

There won’t be any incentives to be corrupted because Intrepid don’t WANT people to do things to flag as corrupted.

They don’t want you ganking lowbies or zerging down a few lone gatherers. They want meaningful PvP over contestable resources.

Full-loot PvP does not work in the long-term. It’s alright for short term gameplay, quick sessions where what you acquire won’t be with you long regardless of if someone kills you or not.

Noaani

George Black wrote: »

This is how the game is going to be. No point arguing in making this mmo, with its so many activities, just kill and loot gear.

You and I seem to be agreeing a lot lately.

George_Black

noaani wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

This is how the game is going to be. No point arguing in making this mmo, with its so many activities, just kill and loot gear.

You and I seem to be agreeing a lot lately.

I still get terribly annoyed when I look at your paragraphs, when there are much better ways to get a simple point across.

Peerless

You wanna pvp for fun then from what I understand just go out with a buddy kill whoever you want and when your corruption gets high have your buddy kill you a few times and pick up your stuff for you to reset corruption. Hope we cant actually do that or this will be a shit show.

Noaani

George Black wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

This is how the game is going to be. No point arguing in making this mmo, with its so many activities, just kill and loot gear.

You and I seem to be agreeing a lot lately.

I still get terribly annoyed when I look at your paragraphs, when there are much better ways to get a simple point across.

If I'm posting a big paragraph like that, it means one of two things.

Either I am attempting to give people more branches with which to potentially carry the topic on (the combat tracker threads are an example of this) - or, I am having a really quiet week.

You may notice, I have been posting much shorter posts in general for the last few weeks - I've been busy.

Nagash

George Black wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

This is how the game is going to be. No point arguing in making this mmo, with its so many activities, just kill and loot gear.

You and I seem to be agreeing a lot lately.

I still get terribly annoyed when I look at your paragraphs, when there are much better ways to get a simple point across.

I'm more annoyed that Noaani still has no profile picture

Noaani

Nagash wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

This is how the game is going to be. No point arguing in making this mmo, with its so many activities, just kill and loot gear.

You and I seem to be agreeing a lot lately.

I still get terribly annoyed when I look at your paragraphs, when there are much better ways to get a simple point across.

I'm more annoyed that Noaani still has no profile picture

Nor have I capatilized my forum name yet.

Edit, I may get around to both one day.

Nagash

noaani wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

This is how the game is going to be. No point arguing in making this mmo, with its so many activities, just kill and loot gear.

You and I seem to be agreeing a lot lately.

I still get terribly annoyed when I look at your paragraphs, when there are much better ways to get a simple point across.

I'm more annoyed that Noaani still has no profile picture

Nor have I capatilized my forum name yet.

Edit, I may get around to both one day.

Even more crimes to add to the list

Lincoln Hawk

Quiltsharts wrote: »

I'll start by saying, I love full loot and I'm a pretty hardcore PvPer, I played EvE Online in Nullsec for almost 10 years now- I don't claim to be the best by any means, this is pretty standard for null. I find the best part about PvP not to be the skill but the social interactions that come of it. Creating enemies, friendships, live saving situations where you scramble you and your friends to try to save someone who's "tackled". This, lets casuals get involved in it, whist still allowing a high skill ceiling (And still providing them an option to not do it entirely).'

Having more Corrupted players in the world is good for everyone.

Typically, I think the risk vs reward of full loot PvPing with the chance to lose your items to be an extremely fun one (You know because you get rewarded with their gear if you win), which brings completely new aspects to the game. Hiding, scouting and intelligence to name a few all start to mean a lot more to you when you could potentially lose the Xx Greatsword of Flaming Death xX.

But to me, the PvP system in this game provides zero incentive to become corrupted and to want to PvP under that villainous tag. At this point there's probably a truck load of downsides, for the one upside that "you killed who you wanted to kill". It just doesn't seem worth it. Meanwhile you're risking all your items, probably the inability to see a town for a long time and most likely if it's not timer based you will have to kill other corrupted players just to get out of it (Which just means people will get naked, and force the hand.)

There's an argument of "People will be dicks and do it anyhow". Yes, you are right they will, but they won't do it as a gameplay style, they won't stay in it long and to them it will be a dumb gimmick for a few hours with no relevance at best. No one is going to risk having their gear drop even for griefing purpose if there's no reward, trust me. If you think a large guild is going to all tag corrupted and camp a dungeon entrance? They won't- if another guild comes and kills even 1 person that guy loses his items and that's that (furthermore, its pretty hard to camp when everyone can see where you are, but even if they still did it despite everything, I guarantee they wouldn't do it day in day out as their preferred gameplay). If they're all wearing garbage they will probably get destroyed anyhow. There's just no incentive and it sucks. I want to play corrupted. I want a reason to be corrupted always. There just isn't one though.

We really need to think of some better reason to become corrupted. I'm just going to throw out some ideas, and most certainly a lot of this wouldn't work, but I really think it needs more. I also really hate that people can "See" where you are. Losing your items is enough. People should definitely not have the upper hand in the "PvP sense" already. Skill and preparedness should be the only factors and playing with a tight-nit group to minimize espionage.

- A town that is a safe haven for corrupted with special quests.
- PvP kills as corrupted on regular combatants are worth much more.
- Corrupted Augments

Just to name a few. Anyhow, please! Steven! Let's make full loot fun, but not so awful for the corrupted that they would never do it. Because then how are all you going to get my gear?

Hey man,
I also have a back ground in full loot mmo's, playing Darkfall and Mortal Online, I enjoy it but I also understand that its what holds alot of games back from ever being more than a niche community.
I think ashes is doing a great job of appealing to all playstyles of people while keeping everything meaningful, the ability to flag and kill people is very important as pve spots, materials etc are going to be highly contested in this game.
I do know that if you flag and kill a non combatant you will still get to loot their inventory of materials etc, so I think it will still have its place but it will be a very punishing playstyle and hard to pull off longterm.
There certainly isnt going to be a lack of meaningful pvp though, with the caravan system and mostly all meaningful pve content being open world.

BlackBrony

Yes, AoC is not meant to be full loot.
Also, and I've heard Jahlon speak about this: we still don't know how hard is to gather materials. I think we're all believing it's just gonna be running around collecting endless amount of resource nodes and making our items. I believe resources will be a lot more scarce, making the caravan system worth.
If this happens, dying matters, and you will try to fight back, CC your enemy and run away or at least attack to lose less resources.
Remember that if you're farming and you don't fight back you're losing 50% of your resources, vs 25% if you fight back.
Also corruption system is there to deter PKing, but mostly to protect lowbies and avoid griefing. If someone is around your level they will be much more likely to fight back.

Whiskiz

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

Ashes was never intended to be full loot. It would not have received the backing that it has if it was. Corruption is not there as a "playstyle" It is a punishment. All stick, no carrot. If you feel you really have to kill people not willing to fight back, then you pay the penalty, in time sink and possible gear loss.

Exactly this.

They made it as an answer to griefing, not to add full loot pvp to the game.

There's not enough incentives for corrupted because you aren't supposed to be corrupted.

This coming from someone that also enjoys full loot like Eve and Darkfall.

Hopefully they do revisit something like this, but until then you're asking them to expand on a system they didn't even implement.

It's not even full loot, i think you have a chance to drop like 1 piece of gear at a time.

So there isn't even such thing as a "Full loot PvP scene" let alone what state it's in.

Genaro

Quiltsharts wrote: »

- A town that is a safe haven for corrupted with special quests.
- PvP kills as corrupted on regular combatants are worth much more.
- Corrupted Augments

Although I think that full loot doesn't belong to a game like this, for all the information that they provided, I like these ideas of having special/different interactions with the world (not just negative ones) really interesting. Like in BDO for example (although the game have many problems, it has some good systems too), in which you can visit a bandit camp with quests and so while you're under negative karma.

Even if these systems exists to make the world more interesting, my big concern is that will incentives griefing, which a huge problem. The risk vs. reward for systems like these must be unbalanced towards risk, meaning that you will take a great risk for a small reward, if it's associated with power progression. You can have some rewards with RP/cosmetic elements too, like having a title, unique costume, etc.

akabear

The workaround for going "red" (corrupted) and at a level that dropped potentially all your inventory was usually to not go red without a good reason in the first place (good or unjust) but if you did, do so with trusted clan mates to quickly go with you somewhere and quitely kill you in a private area until you were brought back to uncorrupted status.

With a penatly of xp loss alone at higher levels was punitive in itself without retribution.

Wiplasher

As someone who was onboard the EVE online train for far to long I know where you are coming from. But it wouldn't work in this game and the community they are trying to create.

I really don't wanna be looking over my shoulder anymore. Could they have some area or other side thing going on that was high risk pvp? Maybe a dungeon prehaps? I think that would work and be a interesting dynamic.

Also everyone did miss one thing. Corrupted players are rewarded when they kill a bounty hunter. We don't know with what but they do get something for being corrupted.

Zambar

I don't think i remember all the details right but, i see the world pvp and corruption system is a good thing.
Basically:
You lose materials on your death, not your equipment. idk how much % of it, you lose
The corruption on you have a time limit. You won't be forever corrupted.
IF you are a citizen of a special node (i think the military) You have less corruption time on you.

Basically if you wanna kill others for loot you have to make a decision, who and what worth looting. Let's say you use X priced equipment to hunt them. If you can loot 2-3 X worth of loot, then it's a win even if you lose some equipment on death. The corrption punishment is a good system to prevent player kill everyone without the need of making a decision--> if it's worth it or not.

Deztox

I personally hate the idea that you get "weaker" due to corruption. It's fine that you risk losing gear etc., but giving bounty hunters an edge up just creates an unbalanced PvP experience between "Killers" and "Bounty Hunters".

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