WMC51 wrote: » Being in a friends alt family means you can't be in others so sure you can go town to town but not a group you do content with.
Atama wrote: » Aardvark wrote: » StevenSharif wrote: » The summon ability in current design could not be used if the member being summoned was in combat, corrupted, or in an event (caravan battle, siege, war) and they would need to have their mats, gatherables, or certs in their warehouse/storage not in their inventory. Otherwise the summon would fail. But as I said, this will all be tested. 😁❤️ If you have to run all the way back to a warehouse to drop stuff off in there, it would make this pretty worthless to use not because you wanted to exploit anything but because your family goes we need to summon and you go ok give me 20min to run back to town and drop off my stuff...whatever they wanted to summon you for would be long over by the time you got to town and deposited all the stuff you can't have on you. That just opens a new kind of economy, where people run around willing to buy your whole inventory for a couple coins so you can teleport right away. It reminds me of the people calling themselves ATMs back in EQ, since coins had weight they’d exchange gold for silver and copper at a small markup.
Aardvark wrote: » StevenSharif wrote: » The summon ability in current design could not be used if the member being summoned was in combat, corrupted, or in an event (caravan battle, siege, war) and they would need to have their mats, gatherables, or certs in their warehouse/storage not in their inventory. Otherwise the summon would fail. But as I said, this will all be tested. 😁❤️ If you have to run all the way back to a warehouse to drop stuff off in there, it would make this pretty worthless to use not because you wanted to exploit anything but because your family goes we need to summon and you go ok give me 20min to run back to town and drop off my stuff...whatever they wanted to summon you for would be long over by the time you got to town and deposited all the stuff you can't have on you.
StevenSharif wrote: » The summon ability in current design could not be used if the member being summoned was in combat, corrupted, or in an event (caravan battle, siege, war) and they would need to have their mats, gatherables, or certs in their warehouse/storage not in their inventory. Otherwise the summon would fail. But as I said, this will all be tested. 😁❤️
WMC51 wrote: » I think there are lots of small groups of people who game together in many games will use it to play with each other
Reign118 wrote: » Fix potentials for some of the problems: Only able to summon a family member within 5 or 10 levels of you(no low level alt summons) Week long cooldown on joining/leaving a family 18 to 24 hour cooldown, so you really have to think about when you want to use it Can't see a really easy way to abuse the system if all the above are put in place along with everything Steven has said is already planned. Prove me wrong! :P
StevenSharif wrote: » Reign118 wrote: » From what I've heard Steven say, they will be keeping a very close on this mechanic throughout the Alphas, Betas, and even on launch. I am sure they will find systems to put in place to prevent any abuse, just throwing some of my ideas out there. Yup. This one will be closely watched during testing. Dual cool down is another idea I’ve had as well
Reign118 wrote: » From what I've heard Steven say, they will be keeping a very close on this mechanic throughout the Alphas, Betas, and even on launch. I am sure they will find systems to put in place to prevent any abuse, just throwing some of my ideas out there.
bloodmeridian wrote: » Another option would be to limit the amount of summons a family can do instead of an individual in the family and make the timer longer than 30 minutes. So each family would get get say a total of 2 summons on 2 hour timers.
noaani wrote: » bloodmeridian wrote: » Another option would be to limit the amount of summons a family can do instead of an individual in the family and make the timer longer than 30 minutes. So each family would get get say a total of 2 summons on 2 hour timers. This could decrease the effectiveness of some potential exploits, but not the ones I would consider most damaging to the game (using alts to port to metropolis nodes, and selling ports). If anything, it would make these avenues of abuse easier.
bloodmeridian wrote: » noaani wrote: » bloodmeridian wrote: » Another option would be to limit the amount of summons a family can do instead of an individual in the family and make the timer longer than 30 minutes. So each family would get get say a total of 2 summons on 2 hour timers. This could decrease the effectiveness of some potential exploits, but not the ones I would consider most damaging to the game (using alts to port to metropolis nodes, and selling ports). If anything, it would make these avenues of abuse easier. Can you explain in more detail how it would make it easier? I could see it still happening but more inconvenienced than anything. I suppose they could also only allow one character to be in a family the way I believe they handle citizenship.
noaani wrote: » bloodmeridian wrote: » noaani wrote: » bloodmeridian wrote: » Another option would be to limit the amount of summons a family can do instead of an individual in the family and make the timer longer than 30 minutes. So each family would get get say a total of 2 summons on 2 hour timers. This could decrease the effectiveness of some potential exploits, but not the ones I would consider most damaging to the game (using alts to port to metropolis nodes, and selling ports). If anything, it would make these avenues of abuse easier. Can you explain in more detail how it would make it easier? I could see it still happening but more inconvenienced than anything. I suppose they could also only allow one character to be in a family the way I believe they handle citizenship. You are suggesting lowering the time it takes between leaving one family and joining another. This is the time it would take between being able to sell ports - the lower it is, the more someone can sell. You also suggested makign the cooldown family wide, rather than putting a cooldown on an individual player, preventing them from being ported again for a long duration. If I can be ported twice every two hours, that means I can much easier buy items at any metropolis node I desire, and port right back home again - using my two ports that I have every two hours.
bloodmeridian wrote: » I never suggested lowering the family change cooldown. I don't know the exact cooldown, but I based it on the wiki which says days not a week.
noaani wrote: » bloodmeridian wrote: » I never suggested lowering the family change cooldown. I don't know the exact cooldown, but I based it on the wiki which says days not a week. You were/are in favor of a lower cooldown for this than what was suggested here. What I don't get is - why can't there be a cooldown of 6 months on that? I mean, the idea is that this cooldown is there so you can join the people you always play with, people you come to the game with and will go to the next game with. There is no reason to need to leave that family and join another in any kind of rush unless you plan on misusing the family system.
bloodmeridian wrote: » noaani wrote: » bloodmeridian wrote: » I never suggested lowering the family change cooldown. I don't know the exact cooldown, but I based it on the wiki which says days not a week. You were/are in favor of a lower cooldown for this than what was suggested here. What I don't get is - why can't there be a cooldown of 6 months on that? I mean, the idea is that this cooldown is there so you can join the people you always play with, people you come to the game with and will go to the next game with. There is no reason to need to leave that family and join another in any kind of rush unless you plan on misusing the family system. I have never been in favor of changing the family swap cooldown.
noaani wrote: » bloodmeridian wrote: » noaani wrote: » bloodmeridian wrote: » I never suggested lowering the family change cooldown. I don't know the exact cooldown, but I based it on the wiki which says days not a week. You were/are in favor of a lower cooldown for this than what was suggested here. What I don't get is - why can't there be a cooldown of 6 months on that? I mean, the idea is that this cooldown is there so you can join the people you always play with, people you come to the game with and will go to the next game with. There is no reason to need to leave that family and join another in any kind of rush unless you plan on misusing the family system. I have never been in favor of changing the family swap cooldown. You were against increasing it, which was stated as being a way to slow down how often ports can be sold - which is a good thing even if it doesnt eliminate that particular form of abuse. What I still want to know is, what reason do you have for feeling you will need to change families in a matter of days that is not an exploit of the family system?
noaani wrote: » B1uefalc0n wrote: » Your guy's solution to give a summon timer on both the summoner and the one being summoned would ruin the entire point of the mechanic as you couldn't get your main group to that dungeon. The point isn't to get the whole group, the point is to get one or two people that are late.
B1uefalc0n wrote: » Your guy's solution to give a summon timer on both the summoner and the one being summoned would ruin the entire point of the mechanic as you couldn't get your main group to that dungeon.
B1uefalc0n wrote: » noaani wrote: » B1uefalc0n wrote: » Your guy's solution to give a summon timer on both the summoner and the one being summoned would ruin the entire point of the mechanic as you couldn't get your main group to that dungeon. The point isn't to get the whole group, the point is to get one or two people that are late. I fully disagree with the solution you are proposing 4 people can still summon 4 people so your logic that you'll only ever have to summon 1 or 2 people being the idea of the mechanic is already flawed since there would be no reason for more than 4 people in a family to go to a dungeon under your system. Being able to summon another 3 at that point is trivial. Your proposed solution also does not deal with the issue that a group of people in the middle of nowhere can double immediately at the exact position that a fight has broken out as a countermeasure to world PvP. My proposed solution to continue allowing you to summon your entire family under the rule that you can only summon them at points of interest and not just anywhere in the world would deal with both of these issues. A coincidence that an attack happens to occur near a point of interest would be few and far between and people out PvPing would be aware of the mechanic and avoid points of interest if they wanted to stay unnoticed anyways.
noaani wrote: » Reign118 wrote: » Fix potentials for some of the problems: Only able to summon a family member within 5 or 10 levels of you(no low level alt summons) Week long cooldown on joining/leaving a family 18 to 24 hour cooldown, so you really have to think about when you want to use it Can't see a really easy way to abuse the system if all the above are put in place along with everything Steven has said is already planned. Prove me wrong! :P The post above that I replied to Steven had five immediate and obvious ways to abuse the system as it stands. They are; Keeping alts at metropolis nodes to port friends Porting allies in to a siege (as opposed to out of a siege, which we know can't be done). Porting allies to the bottom of a dungeon. Porting allies in to an instance. Selling ports to others. None of the proposals you made above would prevent any of these. They would slow down how often ports are able to be sold, but wouldn't prevent it. If anything, all it would do is see more people with more alts offering this, and the price would be higher. The level restriction isn't that much of a deal breaker - it wouldn't take long until these porting alts were level 40, meaning they could port characters from level 30 to level 50. I mean, if people are willing to pay money for a convenience (which history shows, they are), then it isn't that much of an issue to level a few characters up a bit in order to be able to offer that service.
