Serious concern/question about being a bad guy

*Since this thread is getting more attention and people know me from other games and are now wanting to join in the conversation then I will amend my opener here but still keep the original text for posterity sake as you read and catch up.

This thread wants to focus on in-game mechanics that already exist that will allow for good guys to choose to partake in a risk/reward situation and those bad guys that are the potential punishment waiting for them. This game offers much potential for discussion and that is all we want is an open discussion for ways to be bad, and no this thread is not promoting the killing of unwilling participants. Our version of pvp is the literal definition of player vs player on a more small scale version outside from guild/city raids. We are discussing a way for good guy players to seek risk and how bad guy players can be the counterpart*

I want to start this off by saying that I understand how taboo pvp is to a large portion of players. Most people want great story arc progression and maybe others are interested in pvp just enough for the rewards, achievements, gear etc. I would like to present another type of player, not necessarily a roleplay type person but a person who wants to be a bad guy. I want to know how this game will appeal to those of us who aren't looking for dungeon glory, who don't have time for world politics or a sense of life long goals... I want to discuss the person who likes being the bad guy, the guy who was raised with nothing given to them, who learned that the only way to get by is to take it from others and to inflict a little pain so others know how he/she feels.

I have watched some videos and read some articles/posts and I do feel like I have an entry-level understanding of this game's open-world pvp structure, but I feel like it is a far more punishing system, then it is a way to play the game. As stated above, I get that the vast majority of people aren't going to be interested in this but there are plenty of people who like being the bad guy and every good story or hero needs a bad guy. This game has the bounty hunter system and some guild and zone pvp but I have yet to see a full break down of actual pvp focused gameplay.

I don't want to just be a griefing player killer, but I do want some incentive to play a bad character that keeps the fancy lads and goody players on their toes. So far I see more in=game mechanics dedicated to punishing these types of actions and only allowing just a tiny taste of the bad life, I don't see anything that rewards players for taking this path. This game gives you religious arcs that lead to exclusive items, titles and even new skill augments. This game allows a player to build a restaurant in popular hunting areas to benefit the dedication of their time to crafting delicious food and planning a location to be the best source of buffs in that area but what about the bad guys?

Is there really no underground sub-faction that has rewards certain individuals for throwing a wrench into something? A reverse bounty system? An unholy religion that promotes being a bad guy? I mean look at some of the possible skill combos necromancer, trickster, assassin, charlatan, shadow lord... This game provides the bad guy prototypes but doesn't embrace the full potential? Please please please tell me that with all the love put into this game and all the "doing better than other mmos" doesn't mean that you have written off the classic villain player character in light of trying to making people a completely safe and comfortable feeling.

I know a lot of the devs in this game mention older mmo games as inspiration so I am sure you guys remember Ultima Online? You had a full on red player system that basically turned you into a different type of player. Will this game have something like this or is it only that internal system that punishes you for being bad by basically making you completely useless after so long so that you are no longer a threat to even a level 1 critter.

Can someone please link or explain something related to my questions/concerns? I would obviously love to hear from a dev or tester.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

SSRogue

Caeryl wrote: »

You can try to make a corrupted-heavy server, but just like players will have only unofficial RP servers, you have to work within the game’s mechanics. You won’t get special rules

Things like that most likely won't happen, I do agree. They deff aren't happening the first 3 years or so, but... there have been a few decent ideas on this thread and one of the other pvp threads. some decent topics to discuss, some "what if" events or uses of already internal mechanics that could be applied in different ways.

One VERY awesome thing about this game is how much the devs care and how big a nerd Steve is. There is endless potential!

grisu

SSRogue wrote: »

I want to start this off by saying that I understand how taboo pvp is to a large portion of players. Most people want great story arc progression and maybe others are interested in pvp just enough for the rewards, achievements, gear etc. I would like to present another type of player, not necessarily a roleplay type person but a person who wants to be a bad guy.

I did not read further than this because you are obviously biased and just trying to get sympathy for not being included and empowered to do whatever you want. (Edit: Clarification. What I mean by that is having fun at the cost of others and thinking that's totally fine and should be encourage.)
If you want to play a bad guy you should be handled like a bad guy end of story for me. I love to pvp but somehow I don't fall in any of the mentioned categories. I just love pvp and do it where I can. Arenas, Battlegrounds, duells. If you want pvp, then pvp, if you want to be a bad guy, you are a bad guy and should take the consequences.

Thank you for listening to my ted talk.

Netory

Judging by these comments I'm starting to think we need a corruption system for the forums.

Noaani

Netory wrote: »

Judging by these comments I'm starting to think we need a corruption system for the forums.

Only if you get it when you post ideas without understanding the systems already described for the game.

Nagash

Netory wrote: »

Judging by these comments I'm starting to think we need a corruption system for the forums.

oh I'm fine with that

Style

If you wanna see how devestating you can be with the right strategy, search for eve online and the goonsquad.

that is a beast of a story to tell. Movie worthy. turning the high commanders against their own clan to tear them apart from the inside out?
I mean you have everything. Drama. betrayal. Backstabbing. huge wars.

if you get involved with the community and be active on forums etc. this is a wet dream for someone who wants to harm people in the digital world. and that shit can hurt more than corp camping. imagine someone building up his guild and having a great run as mayor and then you come along with rumors, lies, dirty secrets someone spilled to tear everything he build apart.
oh.my.god. i dont wanna be the bad guy but shit i always wanted to be part of that kind of drama. one way or the other. hell yeah.

Kohl

I agree that the punishment is way too great for pking.
I mean you already have a bounty system which is great! I'd like to try playing as both bounty hunter and a bad guy, but to put a dampening on the effectiveness of the abilities is just absurd.
Why not just make it so you can't attack players that are certain level below you?

Caeryl

Kohl wrote: »

I agree that the punishment is way too great for pking.
I mean you already have a bounty system which is great! I'd like to try playing as both bounty hunter and a bad guy, but to put a dampening on the effectiveness of the abilities is just absurd.
Why not just make it so you can't attack players that are certain level below you?

Intrepid doesn’t intend to forbid it, but there’s severe consequences for being a murderhobo, as there should be. If you don’t want to take a stat hit, maybe don’t fight over something worthless, or maybe don’t take a goon squad to gank players gathering some Common mats. If you want PvP, there are plenty of options available.

Raid caravans (Corruption-free), take part in sieges (Corruption-free), play in arena matches (Corruption-free), contest valuable locations like dungeons (When people want to fight for something, you don’t have high risk of corruption)

If you get corruption, you engaged in PvP Intrepid actively wants to discourage, and you earned your dues.

SSRogue

grisu wrote: »

SSRogue wrote: »

I want to start this off by saying that I understand how taboo pvp is to a large portion of players. Most people want great story arc progression and maybe others are interested in pvp just enough for the rewards, achievements, gear etc. I would like to present another type of player, not necessarily a roleplay type person but a person who wants to be a bad guy.

I did not read further than this because you are obviously biased and just trying to get sympathy for not being included and empowered to do whatever you want. (Edit: Clarification. What I mean by that is having fun at the cost of others and thinking that's totally fine and should be encourage.)
If you want to play a bad guy you should be handled like a bad guy end of story for me. I love to pvp but somehow I don't fall in any of the mentioned categories. I just love pvp and do it where I can. Arenas, Battlegrounds, duells. If you want pvp, then pvp, if you want to be a bad guy, you are a bad guy and should take the consequences.

Thank you for listening to my ted talk.

Ok, words where said. Sadly you missed all the actual conversation going on below where you claim to have stopped reading so your thoughts are reflected on such little information. Way to turn a blind eye to things, but it is an option you are allowed to chose.

SSRogue

Kohl wrote: »

I agree that the punishment is way too great for pking.
I mean you already have a bounty system which is great! I'd like to try playing as both bounty hunter and a bad guy, but to put a dampening on the effectiveness of the abilities is just absurd.
Why not just make it so you can't attack players that are certain level below you?

Yea as someone else replied to you, this game is not going to allow being a dick for the sake of being a dick. You have every advantage to randomly atk anyone you wish but you will be severely punished for it, and honestly, who wants to fight people that just sit there waiting to die so you get corruption, that isn't fun. The fun is in their internal pvp systems that allow pvp and yous till do have open world pvp but the other person has to fight back which is the point of pvp.

SO... what I have been talking about this entire damn time is just having fun with the corruption system for the sake of getting a title or some hooded cloak just to look the part of being a bad guy since the game allows it basically in moderation, or at least a npc faction to focus on that makes you bad. But there are a few people who abruptly wont even talk about such thing for it is forbidden old magic that might cause the end of all we know for even hinting at it in a hypothetical way lol. Can't be upset with them though, they probably got ganked one too many times and can't fight back or get over it and now they too butt hurt to even have an open-ended conversation about unholy things. how dare we think of potential rule-free zones with some incentive to venture into but there is no corruption given for pvp, or queueable small scale scenarios outside of caravans and guild raids that let you fight o the side of good or evil and see who wins.

SSRogue

Caeryl wrote: »

Kohl wrote: »

I agree that the punishment is way too great for pking.
I mean you already have a bounty system which is great! I'd like to try playing as both bounty hunter and a bad guy, but to put a dampening on the effectiveness of the abilities is just absurd.
Why not just make it so you can't attack players that are certain level below you?

Intrepid doesn’t intend to forbid it, but there’s severe consequences for being a murderhobo, as there should be. If you don’t want to take a stat hit, maybe don’t fight over something worthless, or maybe don’t take a goon squad to gank players gathering some Common mats. If you want PvP, there are plenty of options available.

Raid caravans (Corruption-free), take part in sieges (Corruption-free), play in arena matches (Corruption-free), contest valuable locations like dungeons (When people want to fight for something, you don’t have high risk of corruption)

If you get corruption, you engaged in PvP Intrepid actively wants to discourage, and you earned your dues.

I just wanted to personally thank you for giving someone an actual informative reply and still entertaining the general topic without just being outright dismissive of the subject matter. It is nice to know people do exist that can have conversations based on imagination and thought-provoking takes on things. You good person deserve a pat on the back.

Zambar

I think you all forget about a system that allow you to be a bad guy. The monster coin system. Trigger or let you join monster hordes to distrupt the progression of nodes.
Let's theorycraft a little. The monster coins are random loot. If you want steady supply of it you have to be a secret ally of a guild. The bigger the better. To earn these coins you help the guild to rule a note.( as it's said for each node more then one guild will fight) You can backstab, distupt rare material geathering lines, destroy caravans for them to get your hands on the coins. How you use it it's up to you. If you are a villain with morals you won' backstab the guild providing you with the coins, but it's up to you ofc.

I see more potential fun as a villain in this over all then just killing anyone randomly without punishment.

SSRogue

Zambar wrote: »

I think you all forget about a system that allow you to be a bad guy. The monster coin system. Trigger or let you join monster hordes to distrupt the progression of nodes.
Let's theorycraft a little. The monster coins are random loot. If you want steady supply of it you have to be a secret ally of a guild. The bigger the better. To earn these coins you help the guild to rule a note.( as it's said for each node more then one guild will fight) You can backstab, distupt rare material geathering lines, destroy caravans for them to get your hands on the coins. How you use it it's up to you. If you are a villain with morals you won' backstab the guild providing you with the coins, but it's up to you ofc.

I see more potential fun as a villain in this over all then just killing anyone randomly without punishment.

This is a very good thing I think we all skipped over! Great info drop there! And it isn't about killing people without punishment lol, this thread is not about wanting to gank people without punishment

daxiongmao87

noaani wrote: »

SSRogue wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Reign118 wrote: »

I would personally like to see them allow people to host private servers with custom rule sets at some point.

AAA MMO's don't do this.

Honestly, any game that allows for private servers instantly loses it's MMO status.

Your very confined view on topics that aren't relevant to your personal likes makes you come across as very prudish.

Name one AAA MMO that has allowed private servers.

Tbf, one rare case is Project 1999 where daybreak has given them permission to run a private EverQuest server

https://www.everquest.com/news/project-1999-daybreak

The definition of AAA I think fits here considering EQ was under SOE for the majority of it's existence.

dux1

Even if I never was good/geared enough to be the bad guy, I acknowledge you guys make the game FUN. I do think currently the corruption system (if you pk 2 non-combatant and can insta lose your gear) isn't fun at all for pk's. Archeage allowed some PK'ing and it was awesome.

SaviourI

There are lots of good things that can come from players coming in and killing citizens of cities. If there is a high enough demand, citizens may hire bodyguards to protect them while they gather resources, or better yet, it could be an in game quest where you can earn exp and stuff for protecting citizens from monsters and players alike. That sounds pretty dope to me.

Noaani

daxiongmao87 wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

SSRogue wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Reign118 wrote: »

I would personally like to see them allow people to host private servers with custom rule sets at some point.

AAA MMO's don't do this.

Honestly, any game that allows for private servers instantly loses it's MMO status.

Your very confined view on topics that aren't relevant to your personal likes makes you come across as very prudish.

Name one AAA MMO that has allowed private servers.

Tbf, one rare case is Project 1999 where daybreak has given them permission to run a private EverQuest server

https://www.everquest.com/news/project-1999-daybreak

The definition of AAA I think fits here considering EQ was under SOE for the majority of it's existence.

I'm quite happy to alter my statement to AAA MMO's don't allow for private servers until they have been live for 20 years.

SSRogue wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

Kohl wrote: »

I agree that the punishment is way too great for pking.
I mean you already have a bounty system which is great! I'd like to try playing as both bounty hunter and a bad guy, but to put a dampening on the effectiveness of the abilities is just absurd.
Why not just make it so you can't attack players that are certain level below you?

Intrepid doesn’t intend to forbid it, but there’s severe consequences for being a murderhobo, as there should be. If you don’t want to take a stat hit, maybe don’t fight over something worthless, or maybe don’t take a goon squad to gank players gathering some Common mats. If you want PvP, there are plenty of options available.

Raid caravans (Corruption-free), take part in sieges (Corruption-free), play in arena matches (Corruption-free), contest valuable locations like dungeons (When people want to fight for something, you don’t have high risk of corruption)

If you get corruption, you engaged in PvP Intrepid actively wants to discourage, and you earned your dues.

I just wanted to personally thank you for giving someone an actual informative reply and still entertaining the general topic without just being outright dismissive of the subject matter. It is nice to know people do exist that can have conversations based on imagination and thought-provoking takes on things. You good person deserve a pat on the back.

Interestingly, the information given in the post you responded to here is the same information I have given you in this thread.

grisu

SSRogue wrote: »

Ok, words where said. Sadly you missed all the actual conversation going on below where you claim to have stopped reading so your thoughts are reflected on such little information. Way to turn a blind eye to things, but it is an option you are allowed to chose.

Ok I read further and it's exactly the same, just trying to spin your awful behaviour on having fun at the cost of others into a positive. Nothing changed from what I gathered in the first 3 sentences and it was a waste of time. If you want to be a bad guy you should be handled like one and not empowered.

Raoul9753

You know SSRogue, i get the same vibe of you i get from those people in D&D who play a murder hoboing party stealing rogue with the “its what my Charakter would do“ excuse. And there is a reason noone wants these guys at a table, unless the whole party is playing like this.

The pure concept of “being the bad guy“ in a multiplayer enviroment is flawed from the beginning, because to be a “bad guy“ you need an unwilling victim, otherwise you would just be a pvper. And that means your enjoyment in the game is directly tied to reducing another players enjoyment in the game, and more often than not by a greater amount than your gain. Notice where this gets problematic?

Rewarding the killing of unwilling players will just lead to what happened on wow pvp servers back when phase 2 hobor was introduced: rogue groups sneaking around leveling areas and sniping players who gove them rewards but are unable to fight back, while totaly avoiding players that would pose a fight.

You claim that you dont want to grief, but you are asking for a system that allows you to have fun by causing grief for others, otherwise you could literally just play any single player rpg and be the bad guy all you want, but you spezificly want to do it in a way that involves real victims. Otherwise you would have asked about a thiefs guild/assassins guild style system where you steak from or assassinate npcs, but you didnt, you specifically asked if the game lets you be a bad guy towards other players. And sorry, that in itself is the pure definition of griefing.

SSRogue

SaviourI wrote: »

There are lots of good things that can come from players coming in and killing citizens of cities. If there is a high enough demand, citizens may hire bodyguards to protect them while they gather resources, or better yet, it could be an in game quest where you can earn exp and stuff for protecting citizens from monsters and players alike. That sounds pretty dope to me.

I agree there could be some kind of interesting system for a "bad guy" quest line to do these things

Child Item