Starting an open world PvP fight

Hi everyone, I was just wondering how does the open world PvP works in terms like starting a fight with someone. Like do you declare a fight to him somehow or you just start attacking him. Hopefully it's not the second one coz that would give advantage to the attacker since he's the 1st one to attack. And i think of this as if both of them were non-combatants.

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Damokles

If they are flagged as Combatant, then just jump on him. If they arent then just ask them if they wanna fight or dont give a damn and attack then too. You could ask a friend to kill you to get rid of the Corruption after killing them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit:
Okay I just read the last part xD
Then there is not much you can do. If you attack him and kill him you get corrupted the same as when you are a combatant.
You could always challenge him to an honor duel? xD

CaptnChuck

Damokles wrote: »

If they are flagged as Combatant, then just jump on him. If they arent then just ask them if they wanna fight or dont give a damn and attack then too. You could ask a friend to kill you to get rid of the Corruption after killing them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit:
Okay I just read the last part xD
Then there is not much you can do. If you attack him and kill him you get corrupted the same as when you are a combatant.
You could always challenge him to an honor duel? xD

Indirectly exposing a weakness of the corruption system while answering a question about open world pvp. I like it.

Beateerr

But it's still kinda floppy. Imagine farming some mobs or just gathering in some area and there is another guy there doing the same and once you 2 looted everything he randomly kills you hoping you will drop those materials you just looted... it's not fair coz he attacks first so he's in advantage from the very beginning of the fight, if you can call that a fight

Jexz

keeps you on your toes if you see him coming after you attack him first. If he attacks back neither of you will be corrupted.

You only become corrupted if you kill someone who does not defend themselves.

Beateerr

You gotta be on your toes whole time in this game then, coz anyone can get a random thought of killing u.

Jubilum

Another person realizing oh crap, this open world/non-consensual pvp will be a huge negative for this game. Just be careful their are some on these forums and even IS itself, who will attempt to convince you that corruption will solve the problem.

Beateerr

Well i dont dislike it that much but i dont like being in disadvantage before the fight even starts, even though it makes it even more challenging so it would just make me chase that dude and kill him mutiple times

SSRogue

Beateerr wrote: »

But it's still kinda floppy. Imagine farming some mobs or just gathering in some area and there is another guy there doing the same and once you 2 looted everything he randomly kills you hoping you will drop those materials you just looted... it's not fair coz he attacks first so he's in advantage from the very beginning of the fight, if you can call that a fight

I myself feel that this is what keeps a game interesting is the threat of loss and death. I am in several threads discussing other ways to add to being a bad guy in this game, however, I know what you mean and sympathize with your point of view. AoC might not protect you in the short run, u may die and drop things ( I don't know all the rules on that) but in the long run that guy who killed you will be only getting more hassle then it is worth if you let him and he gets corruption. If you are a solo grinder who just likes spending your time in a game collecting things and completing things or hell you just want to hunt meat and literally open up a restaurant in the middle of the woods then there is potential to be dicked with. I do believe this game is pretty balanced in deterring griefing or unwanted combat while still also allowing it, yet there will still be some people that absolutely do not ever ever want it and others like myself who want more. The only way to completely please both sides is to do specialized servers or something like war mode in warcraft where if you never want to be targetable then you turn off the option and if you choose to play the game with the potential risk of being targeted by a bad person who wishes to become corrupted at your expense then maybe give a little xp boost and gold drop in like wow did/does.

The game currently exists in a pretty balanced state to not outright prevent such actions yet clearly punishing those who do. I think it will be enough to have just a tiny few people actually out there being openly corrupted, and you will most likely not be as fearful as in other games, but the game is still being developed and updated and taking feedback from the community so have faith!

Khana

jubilum wrote: »

Another person realizing oh crap, this open world/non-consensual pvp will be a huge negative for this game. Just be careful their are some on these forums and even IS itself, who will attempt to convince you that corruption will solve the problem.

Open world pvp creates an unknown factor in a known game, this is what makes the game interesting once the predictable becomes boring. It breaks the monotony of mob farming and material gathering.

If being killed once in a while in open world bothers you so much then probably you won't participate in any pvp activity at all, in this case this game is probably not what you're looking for, if you wanna progress you'll most likely have to participate in both pve and pvp activities.

SSRogue

Khana wrote: »

jubilum wrote: »

Another person realizing oh crap, this open world/non-consensual pvp will be a huge negative for this game. Just be careful their are some on these forums and even IS itself, who will attempt to convince you that corruption will solve the problem.

Open world pvp creates an unknown factor in a known game, this is what makes the game interesting once the predictable becomes boring. It breaks the monotony of mob farming and material gathering.

If being killed once in a while in open world bothers you so much then probably you won't participate in any pvp activity at all, in this case this game is probably not what you're looking for, if you wanna progress you'll most likely have to participate in both pve and pvp activities.

Very true but you should not alienate people who have no desire at all in ever encountering a pvp situation. This game allows it, so that is already out the window. Now you gotta protect against bad pvp and good pvp and that is where grey area gets introduced with exploiting the system from both ends, the good guys and the bad guys can both find ways to exploit it. I am no dev, but I have played so many games and wasted so many hours because it is what I do and I don't care if I am judged on it, but what it does give me experience in this. As much as I do not want to promote WoW because that game sucks the soul out of gaming, their war mode system is very good. No new severs needed, just flip a switch and u can be targeted or not be targeted. You still have access to arena and battlegrounds but you choose to enable or disable unwilling participation in pvp.

BlackBrony

SSRogue wrote: »

Khana wrote: »

jubilum wrote: »

Another person realizing oh crap, this open world/non-consensual pvp will be a huge negative for this game. Just be careful their are some on these forums and even IS itself, who will attempt to convince you that corruption will solve the problem.

Open world pvp creates an unknown factor in a known game, this is what makes the game interesting once the predictable becomes boring. It breaks the monotony of mob farming and material gathering.

If being killed once in a while in open world bothers you so much then probably you won't participate in any pvp activity at all, in this case this game is probably not what you're looking for, if you wanna progress you'll most likely have to participate in both pve and pvp activities.

Very true but you should not alienate people who have no desire at all in ever encountering a pvp situation. This game allows it, so that is already out the window. Now you gotta protect against bad pvp and good pvp and that is where grey area gets introduced with exploiting the system from both ends, the good guys and the bad guys can both find ways to exploit it. I am no dev, but I have played so many games and wasted so many hours because it is what I do and I don't care if I am judged on it, but what it does give me experience in this. As much as I do not want to promote WoW because that game sucks the soul out of gaming, their war mode system is very good. No new severs needed, just flip a switch and u can be targeted or not be targeted. You still have access to arena and battlegrounds but you choose to enable or disable unwilling participation in pvp.

NO, just NO.
The systemworked pretty well in Lineage2.
The game is OPEN WORLD PvP and systems are in place to avoid griefing.
If you want to farm and be safe, re-evaluate your expectations about this game.
Steven said it several times "this game is not for everyone".

If you can switch your PvP flag, there's no point in Open World PvP, all the risk is gone. You're not playing Ashes of Creation, it's just a completely different game.

You really need to read about the game and how it works and think what Open World PvP does for the game.

Lazyactor

"but you choose to enable or disable unwilling participation in pvp."

then by definition it is not unwilling participation in pvp. Cause you choose it. I blame WOW for this mentality. That game just let players torture each other in pvp with no check and no balances and now because of that we have hoards of scarred people who think PvP and have flashbacks of getting corpse camped for 6 hours. They think that is PvP. They think that is open world PvP. They think that is what PvP players want in every game.

Ulf

If you guys ever played Lineage2 you'd have a better understading of how the system worked( is not exactly the same but it's... 80% the same )The good thing about it, is that it increased the drop chance for a corrupted character iE: If a guy wants to kick you out of his spot, i has to think about the sweet weapon/gear that he has on, because if you are red, you drop like a f***n piñata.

The ting goes likes this.. you have two players, farming in a spot, one wants to kick the other out. Normally your nametag is white so: player 1 attacks player 2 -> player 1 acquires purple nametag ( flag status ). Player 2 has three options.
(OP1)Remain white and only drop a small amount of hunting certs ( or farming goods ) upon death ( like if you died because a monster killed you ). But the player that kills you becomes red and vulnerable to hunting parties / you coming back for his soul ( remember: corrupted( red ) = more loot drop on death.
(OP2) Player 2 hits back to defend his spot, acquires purple nametag and both players fight for an honourable pvp for the spot, if one dies, its okay, no corruption, just world pvp. Things happens.
(OP3) Player 1 just hit you to taunt and instigate a posible fight, just for lolz, you chat, all good, make party, farm together

I think that is a very good system, that adds to the inmersion and gameplay styles. Yes, there are people that only want PVE and instanced PVP. but that is no fun man. I remember being in a party Lineage2 in a high level zone, and we had to fight to defend the spot. We managed to farm it for like.. 2 hours and that was enough to get what we wanted that day from that area. It keeps you on your toes. And when soloing, it gives you the chance to either ask nicely to another dude to leave, or smash is head in and try to grind the corruption with the adrenaline that in any moment you can be ganked and could lose some gear for that " anger management " that lead you to kill another guy that was stealing your spot.

Have a great day !

Ulf

SSRogue

BlackBrony wrote: »

NO, just NO.
The systemworked pretty well in Lineage2.
The game is OPEN WORLD PvP and systems are in place to avoid griefing.
If you want to farm and be safe, re-evaluate your expectations about this game.
Steven said it several times "this game is not for everyone".

If you can switch your PvP flag, there's no point in Open World PvP, all the risk is gone. You're not playing Ashes of Creation, it's just a completely different game.

You really need to read about the game and how it works and think what Open World PvP does for the game.

LoL read my words! I am VERY pvp focused, just click on my name and see my comments and my thread, but you have to be open to the others and the entire point of a forum is to discuss not put others down. We are the community, we are the voices and we need to discuss and find a middle ground.

As per your statement about the game is clearly pvp based, yea I know. I was just trying to say that we can't ignore the concerns of those who do not want any pvp. The game might not ever cater to them which suits me just fine but you can't just ignore their concerns.

SSRogue

Lazyactor wrote: »

"but you choose to enable or disable unwilling participation in pvp."

then by definition it is not unwilling participation in pvp. Cause you choose it. I blame WOW for this mentality. That game just let players torture each other in pvp with no check and no balances and now because of that we have hoards of scarred people who think PvP and have flashbacks of getting corpse camped for 6 hours. They think that is PvP. They think that is open world PvP. They think that is what PvP players want in every game.

I know, they see you type anything positive about pvp and they instantly want to crap all over it. The only reason I brought it up was that in a forum discussion it is unfair to ignore the worries of people and to discuss out their worries with suggestions or facts to ease their worries or assist in making them more knowledgeable. I have an entire thread dedicated to discussing introducing more way a player can act out pvp form the aspect of a good guy vs a bad guy, so trust me I am no anti pvp, I just wanted to play devils advocated for that one person.

SSRogue

Ulf wrote: »

If you guys ever played Lineage2 you'd have a better understading of how the system worked( is not exactly the same but it's... 80% the same )The good thing about it, is that it increased the drop chance for a corrupted character iE: If a guy wants to kick you out of his spot, i has to think about the sweet weapon/gear that he has on, because if you are red, you drop like a f***n piñata.

The ting goes likes this.. you have two players, farming in a spot, one wants to kick the other out. Normally your nametag is white so: player 1 attacks player 2 -> player 1 acquires purple nametag ( flag status ). Player 2 has three options.
(OP1)Remain white and only drop a small amount of hunting certs ( or farming goods ) upon death ( like if you died because a monster killed you ). But the player that kills you becomes red and vulnerable to hunting parties / you coming back for his soul ( remember: corrupted( red ) = more loot drop on death.
(OP2) Player 2 hits back to defend his spot, acquires purple nametag and both players fight for an honourable pvp for the spot, if one dies, its okay, no corruption, just world pvp. Things happens.
(OP3) Player 1 just hit you to taunt and instigate a posible fight, just for lolz, you chat, all good, make party, farm together

I think that is a very good system, that adds to the inmersion and gameplay styles. Yes, there are people that only want PVE and instanced PVP. but that is no fun man. I remember being in a party Lineage2 in a high level zone, and we had to fight to defend the spot. We managed to farm it for like.. 2 hours and that was enough to get what we wanted that day from that area. It keeps you on your toes. And when soloing, it gives you the chance to either ask nicely to another dude to leave, or smash is head in and try to grind the corruption with the adrenaline that in any moment you can be ganked and could lose some gear for that " anger management " that lead you to kill another guy that was stealing your spot.

Have a great day !

Ulf

I remember those days as much as I remember other games like Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot, WoW, Warhammer Online, Blade and Soul, EVE, etc... Each game has its twist on pvp. If I had to pick my favorite it was Ultima Online, the rules were if you killed a blue then you became red. Red players can't go into towns and guards can be called against them to basically instakill them if you entered a protected zone. you would think that nobody wanted to be instakilled and be locked out of towns where you can get things you need and hang out and goto a bank to store your goods right? WRONG! They had epic battles between reds and blues, blues grouped up to go farming in areas they knew reds patrolled and vice-versa. It was fun being a red and fun being a blue. People complained a little so they split severs into a version that had no pvp flagging which made them happy and that was that. I lost so many good things but I looted some as well. You live and learn and you grow with those battle scars.

The biggest difference in games now days is the loot. The games have changed, the loot has changed. People expect hard to find ultra-rare items with the best min max stats and to lose items like that would maybe make some people kill themselves irl sadly. If games had base level items with cosmetic twists and maybe just different stat tiers vs the overwhelming pile of loot to be farmed tier after tier, set after set then maybe we could have these good ole days of real true pvp, but until then we gotta have systems and balancing and battlegrounds and all this watered down bs just to make the game as massively appealing to everyone so the devs can have a game they like making and making money to live off of and the players have a game they enjoy as much as the largest number of people can be happy playing. There is no world for hardcore gamers in pve or pvp, too many casual players will complain and hate games for being too hard in pvp or pve, such is modern gaming and such is modern life. It is the exposure that makes games great and that cause their downfall. One thing you can say about Warcraft is that is has lasted because they manage to piss just enough people off in one expansion while making enough happy and then switch them around in the next expansion to keep everything just enough happy and mad to keep playing because they have nice rounded edges of likeability and dislikability.

BlackBrony

SSRogue wrote: »

Lazyactor wrote: »

"but you choose to enable or disable unwilling participation in pvp."

then by definition it is not unwilling participation in pvp. Cause you choose it. I blame WOW for this mentality. That game just let players torture each other in pvp with no check and no balances and now because of that we have hoards of scarred people who think PvP and have flashbacks of getting corpse camped for 6 hours. They think that is PvP. They think that is open world PvP. They think that is what PvP players want in every game.

I know, they see you type anything positive about pvp and they instantly want to crap all over it. The only reason I brought it up was that in a forum discussion it is unfair to ignore the worries of people and to discuss out their worries with suggestions or facts to ease their worries or assist in making them more knowledgeable. I have an entire thread dedicated to discussing introducing more way a player can act out pvp form the aspect of a good guy vs a bad guy, so trust me I am no anti pvp, I just wanted to play devils advocated for that one person.

But the thing is that worries are ok, you explain them how it works. But things won't change.
At least not the Open World PvP.

You will NOT be allowed to ignore PvP, it doesn't matter what you feel or think is best for the game, it's a straight hard no.
You will get ganked, and your choice will be either fight back or not.
There's no switch to turn that off, and that's what makes the game interesting.

The corruption system will take care of griefers. Does it need testing? Sure, that's why we have alpha and people will test it to avoid loopholes and abusing it.

I don't mind explaining thing, but just making sure that it's not a game where you farm and ignore everyone else.

There's going to be HUGE fights for those farming spots.

SSRogue

BlackBrony wrote: »

just making sure that it's not a game where you farm and ignore everyone else.

There's going to be HUGE fights for those farming spots.

I 100% agree BUT if enough people dislike it and they cannot find a way to balance those complaining vs those happy with the systems as is then things will change and something like a war mode will come around because a switch on and off is the easiest way to make them happy. I still do not agree with it, I would rather have a pve server, a pvp server and a normal server if it came to that because it's unfair to those of us playing the pvp phase having to deal with potentially fast geared people not dealing with potential pvp while they quest. That being said I think the game is fair as it is and if anything I am arguing over on my thread for more things involving pvp.

OR

Nothing changes and a game director stands behind their decision and says "This is our game, we want it this way, you do not have to play it" and wow, I don't think anyone has the balls. I will say that this game has enough systems and mechanics to let people find their little groups and comfort zones and stay out of others' ways and most likely won't become a big problem once it completely tested and polished and you allow some time for tweaks.

BlackBrony

SSRogue wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

just making sure that it's not a game where you farm and ignore everyone else.

There's going to be HUGE fights for those farming spots.

I 100% agree BUT if enough people dislike it and they cannot find a way to balance those complaining vs those happy with the systems as is then things will change and something like a war mode will come around because a switch on and off is the easiest way to make them happy. I still do not agree with it, I would rather have a pve server, a pvp server and a normal server if it came to that because it's unfair to those of us playing the pvp phase having to deal with potentially fast geared people not dealing with potential pvp while they quest. That being said I think the game is fair as it is and if anything I am arguing over on my thread for more things involving pvp.

OR

Nothing changes and a game director stands behind their decision and says "This is our game, we want it this way, you do not have to play it" and wow, I don't think anyone has the balls. I will say that this game has enough systems and mechanics to let people find their little groups and comfort zones and stay out of others' ways and most likely won't become a big problem once it completely tested and polished and you allow some time for tweaks.

Steven, and IS, are making a game he would play, not a game that everyone would play. There's a clear difference. It doesn't matter how many tell him that they want a switch to enable/disable PvP, that shouldn't happen.
It's what people backing the game expect, and it's the reason that many are hyped about this game.

Games are not for everyone, this should be a given. PvP is at the core of the game, and there are many reason it's there: to create fiction, which sprawl wars and content created by the community.

I don't think the devs should balance " those complaining vs those happy with the systems as is", because Open World PvP is a given. It's like a core fundamental value of AoC.

The fact that the game is in development changes nothing regarding certain aspects of the game. In my opinion those won't and shouldn't change.
We're not talking about tweaking the corruption system, multiboxing, or addons, we're talking about the foundations on where the game is standing.

SSRogue

BlackBrony wrote: »

The fact that the game is in development changes nothing regarding certain aspects of the game. In my opinion those won't and shouldn't change.
We're not talking about tweaking the corruption system, multiboxing, or addons, we're talking about the foundations on where the game is standing.

We are on the same page but if I must play devil's advocate then I will for the people who have other side of the coin views. I, however, agree that this game is awesome as is and if anything I want more ways for balanced bad guy things

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