Dodging/Evading. Stat or Action based?

I haven't written a forum post in a while so excuse any poor formatting.

Let me also start by saying that I'm a new follower & fan of the project, and I've tried to inform myself to the best of my ability before creating this post.

The MMOs that I played and have spent a considerable amount of time on are Rappelz ( a lesser known MMO during the era of MMOs), Tera Online, and Guild Wars 2. I'll be using those as a point of reference whilst making my point.

From what I've gathered, evading attacks, be it PvE or PvP is going to be stat based, as I've experienced playing Rappelz. You get to stack up on Agility and evade player or mob attacks while standing still. I don't recall having an issue with that system at the time, but i might be mistaken as that was 10 years ago.

Looking back at it now after having played Tera Online and Guild Wars 2, I can see a couple of issues with it.

- Being totally helpless in PvP against higher leveled characters as they have higher level stats, and better gear, and therefor making all of your attacks miss, despite the possibility of you being the more "skilled" player.
- Yes, you do have the possibility of going for some Dexterity stat to "counter" Agility, but that's only the case given prior knowledge of your enemies' stats. However, you can imagine the abuse of Agility in large, well coordinated PvP.
- Not that I'm against end game gear or the struggle and therefor the joy experienced upon achieving it, BUT having evading be stat based limits players' skill ceiling primarily to memorizing skill rotations. Gear will effectively be almost the only status quota to be met when joining any competitive PvX.
- Not a fact, but more of an opinion: Action based dodging is more fun, and more engaging.

I think I had more on my mind to say before I started typing, but given that i haven't slept all day I could've forgotten a couple of points which I might edit in later on.

Closing with a couple of questions;
- Is dodging/evading stat based as I've concluded?
- ( @mods&devs ) If Yes, is that set in stone ?
- What is your opinion on both variants given that you've played both ?

That would be it for now, Thank you for reading and I hope i didn't create a duplicate.

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Comments

Magic Man

I agree that action based dodging is more fun and factually, more engaging. They want both active and stat based dodging (I-frames were mentioned to evade tab skills and active dodging for action ones)

You don't have to worry about your attacks missing if you pick mostly action based skills - as they land regardless of evade stats.

Gear will be extremely important but they want skill to matter the most (a skilled 35-40 level player having a chance against a level 50 but it is said to get extremely hard below 35)

Jexz

Magic Man wrote: »

Gear will be extremely important but they want skill to matter the most (a skilled 35-40 level player having a chance against a level 50 but it is said to get extremely hard below 35)

They have said this? I have not seen it. I'm terribly worried gear is going to be over the top deciding factor in out comes of fights.

CaptnChuck

Jexz wrote: »

Magic Man wrote: »

Gear will be extremely important but they want skill to matter the most (a skilled 35-40 level player having a chance against a level 50 but it is said to get extremely hard below 35)

They have said this? I have not seen it. I'm terribly worried gear is going to be over the top deciding factor in out comes of fights.

Steven, in his interview with Asmongold, said that gear will decide around 40-50% of the diff in power. The rest will be decided by level and combat skill.

Watch at 54:00.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0LQSMT83L0&t=11s

Cold 0ne FTB

Still, I think the point stands. Action based dodging even if it is locked into a skill is alot more fun than a static stat.

Valento92

Dodging is fun I agree, just like most of the moving around. I reaaaally hope their hybrid approach works like WS or GW2, I'm fine with both. I just hope it's not idle or GCD-based because these suck eventually, even grandma finds these combat flows not fun to play.

Riegnar

What's the issue with dodging tab skills ? GW2 does, hell you can even dodge auto attacks.
Also, how can you effectively tell that the incoming attack is action or "tab/autotarget" based ? How do you know if you should stand still and let y our stats handle it or potentially waste a dodge ability on a tab skill ?

Opux

CaptnChuck wrote: »

Jexz wrote: »

Magic Man wrote: »

Gear will be extremely important but they want skill to matter the most (a skilled 35-40 level player having a chance against a level 50 but it is said to get extremely hard below 35)

They have said this? I have not seen it. I'm terribly worried gear is going to be over the top deciding factor in out comes of fights.

Steven, in his interview with Asmongold, said that gear will decide around 40-50% of the diff in power. The rest will be decided by level and combat skill.

Watch at 54:00.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0LQSMT83L0&t=11s

He said skill, but meant skill points. This is a concern for me. The only time "skill" was mentioned was as an ancillary benefit to getting gear.

FuryBladeborne

One of the older videos about mages showed a mage doing a backward roll. It was a long range roll and summoned a wall between the mage and target. This is an evade on your bar. I remember Steven discussing such evasion abilities in the monthly videos some time ago and he said that high mobility classes will probably have more evasion abilites.

I am not clear about the evasion stat, but I pretty sure it will exist just like a blocking stat will. FYI, active blocking may also be a thing at the same time.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Skills#Active_blocking

Also, "Dodge rolling type skills will be housed in the action skill sets of agile classes such as Rogues or Fighters.[72]"
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Active_skills

Jexz

While at face value I agree with him the players with the most time invested should be rewarded. But what I think he actually means (and I could be wrong) is the players who raid the most should be the most powerful. That raiding offers the most risk v reward. Unfortunately I do not enjoy raiding and love PvP but not if I get smashed because my gear sucks. Hope I am all wrong about this. If you constantly fight people with better gear than you that is higher risk than the reward raiding will ever give you. Even if the reward is just fun.
Dude with better gear low risk of losing wins more has more fun. Dude with crap gear high risk of loss and wont be having fun. I know I will get no sympathy as PvP is the minority. just sucks knowing the end game will probably be as frustrating as all the Korean mmo's out there. Not to say this game wont be a lot of fun up to end game establishment while you can stay close to the power curve. Once it takes off so does the fun.

I do belive AoC will be much better dealing with exploiters so the end game power house guilds might not be as stagnant as they are in BDO.

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