DPS Meter Megathread

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Noaani

3am wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Isharya wrote: »

You talk about guilds shaming and excluding you but do you want to be in a guild that would do that anyway? if the people you are guilded with a meter shamers do you really want to be IN that guild?

This, totally. I’ve seen these “hardcore” guilds and avoid them. If you don’t want to be judged and pushed don’t join them.

I "am" those hardcore guilds, but I don't judge, I attempt to help.

It's far more productive.

but you did say it though...
or did you not read the whole thread including your own words?
Anyway, maybe you should look at it as a greater challenge! Instead of a great negative.
and maybe cheating isn't the best way to be considered one of the hardcore guilds.

Sometimes the filth from WoW trash, such as their terms, rubs off on to others.

As for cheating, using a tool that is standard in the genre is not really cheating. Just because Intrepid want to play by their own rules, doesn't mean I have to.

3am

noaani wrote: »

3am wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Isharya wrote: »

You talk about guilds shaming and excluding you but do you want to be in a guild that would do that anyway? if the people you are guilded with a meter shamers do you really want to be IN that guild?

This, totally. I’ve seen these “hardcore” guilds and avoid them. If you don’t want to be judged and pushed don’t join them.

I "am" those hardcore guilds, but I don't judge, I attempt to help.

It's far more productive.

but you did say it though...
or did you not read the whole thread including your own words?
Anyway, maybe you should look at it as a greater challenge! Instead of a great negative.
and maybe cheating isn't the best way to be considered one of the hardcore guilds.

Sometimes the filth from WoW trash, such as their terms, rubs off on to others.

Well at least your big enough to admit you said it first. Though i don't understand why you're attacking arguably the two most competitive raiding games in the genre. What "hardcore" raiding are you doing? Maybe I'm missing an important part of your personal experience I.E while playing silk road online a lot of people would bot, because it literally took months on top of months to get anywhere. (still wasn't right though)

As for cheating, no actually playing outside a games rule set is cheating. In every definition. And yes you do as it is their game. But hey if you want to be the "best" illegitimately" go for it mate. not my job to stop you!
This isn't really going anywhere and i feel we aren't creating good dialogue so I'll head out past this. I do hope you have fun in the game as it has a lot to offer! (even if it doesn't offer a dps meter or its use)

Namil

noaani wrote: »

Namil wrote: »

I never once said players shouldn't be called out and told when they're doing something wrong, I said your approach was unnecessary, because it is. Obviously players should be expected to take their own share of the load in the group and do it correctly.

I think you are missing the actual point of all of this.

The point is that I said you could use a combat tracker to tell who is getting hit by the fiery shit. I also highlighted what would be a last resort as it was the most visual means of illustrating the point that the tool that you are saying is causing an issue is actually the tool that is the remedy to that issue. That is the point.

In terms of linking in guild chat, as I said, it would be after telling that player in private, several times. Again, I didn't think this would need to have been clarified as it should go without saying.

If I am linking a players poor performance to the guild as a one off, it means I am one pull away from booting the player from the raid, and thus the guild (something I have had to do only once, in almost 20 years).

However, I will make a point on some encounters that warrant it to have a parse that shows either the most or least damage that a specific attack does (content depending). Players can and do use this kind of thing to compete in the same way they use DPS to compete.

So, you're backtracking and filling in your gaps and talking nonsense about me missing the point despite going off on a tangent yourself. This is why I just plainly dislike reading anything you have to say because you're so bullheaded. What a pointless conversation, I'm not even the person you're trying to convince that combat logs are important because as I said, I'm completely impartial.

This is boring and I'm not going to continue this and respond again, It's also just making me cringe a little bit every single time you say something about a game you dislike because you think that you're on a pedestal above the rest for not playing it.

Noaani

Namil wrote: »

So, you're backtracking

No, I'm just attempting to clarify a statement you are taking well out of context.

I'm not one for shying away from a conversation going off topic, I'm always going to defend my position.

It's not my fault you focused on an unimportant detail - just don't claim people are backtracking when they attempt to clarify something after you take a point off topic.

Noaani

3am wrote: »

while playing silk road online a lot of people would bot, because it literally took months on top of months to get anywhere. (still wasn't right though)

I have my own set of rules that I follow.

An example of this may be that I will happily multibox if *I* want to, but I will never play a game in a manner where one keypress results in more than one action.

If I were ever to play WoW (which - other than assisting my brothers guild on raids, I won't and haven't), and decided to multibox, I wouldn't run so many accounts that I needed to use scripts to keep things going - even though WoW allows this as long as you are present at the computer.

I also will not play GW2, as every class' main ability is essentially a toggle, rather than a single cast ability. As such, just playing that game naturally means one keypress gives more than one action - which is against my rules even if not against GW2's.

The fact that Intrepid *may* make rules that are not perfectly compatible with mine is not really an issue for me. I will stick to mine in literally every situation.

3am

@noaani
That's fair, and I wish you the best! But if you get the ban hammer take it with stride. Hopefully it won't come to that and we'll see each other in game. I'll even act as a training dummy for you to parse your DPS off of, legitimately of course

Mork

BlackBrony

mazh wrote: »

Well, I don't see many options for healers at least. You need those bars close to you to monitor HP.

PlagueMonk

Some have touched on this so I'm just going to come right out and say it.......it doesn't matter if this mechanic is included in AoC or not. Why? Because there will be a 3rd party DPS meter program. I've seen them in other games and AoC will be no different.

About the best AoC can do is not allow it as a 3rd party addon but even then there will be versions that can run independently of the game and analyze the DPS data.

The only up side to this however is that not everyone under the sun will have it readily available. Probably only those people/ guilds concerned with mini/maxing will still use them.

Lethality

noaani wrote: »

halbarz wrote: »

A lot of games have suffered because of this and some saw a drop in player base because they get bored.

Ashes will see fewer people pick up the game based on this decision.

Every serious PvE guild is now looking elsewhere.

I'm just gonna jump in for a sec... I never ever got the impression that there was going to be structured tier-driven progression raiding in this game. Why would they assume it would?

And honestly for every player who thinks they can't play the game without them, there are 10 more who pick it up because it's refreshing that it's not catering to the same old mentality.

BlackBrony

lethality wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

halbarz wrote: »

A lot of games have suffered because of this and some saw a drop in player base because they get bored.

Ashes will see fewer people pick up the game based on this decision.

Every serious PvE guild is now looking elsewhere.

I'm just gonna jump in for a sec... I never ever got the impression that there was going to be structured tier-driven progression raiding in this game. Why would they assume it would?

And honestly for every player who thinks they can't play the game without them, there are 10 more who pick it up because it's refreshing that it's not catering to the same old mentality.

I'd said it several times. If there's a DPS meter, I'm forced to use it because the population will demand that DPS threshold for content.
On the other side, I'm always thinking that DPS meters make the game easier and trivializes a lot of encounters.

Lethality

BlackBrony wrote: »

lethality wrote: »

I'd said it several times. If there's a DPS meter, I'm forced to use it because the population will demand that DPS threshold for content.
On the other side, I'm always thinking that DPS meters make the game easier and trivializes a lot of encounters.

Yea, if they exist they are truly not "optional".

But I guess I was commenting more on the expectation that there would be the kind of content that would require these kinds of tools, and I never got the impression there was.

There are raids, but that doesn't mean they at all fit in the "WoW" mold. In fact I got the opposite impression since there will be raids available or not depending on node progression and different servers.

Outside of this rigid structured type of long-format content, is there really even a need for meters anyway?

MIB

I don't think it should be implemented with the exception of within a testing or training arena where you might experiment your abilities on training dummies.

xXBelocXx

Damage meters can be a very toxic thing in MMOs IMO. They can create a player divide that promotes an atmosphere of exclusivity vs inclusivity. But lets look at it from a couple of different perspectives:

Having damage meters to improve your own play: With the damage meter min/maxers have a tool to measure how well there build performs. Change this one skill in a rotation and you get 100 more DPS.. BAM!! This, used purely as tool for ones self betterment is fully acceptable.

Having damage meters to "qualify" players: Here is where the argument gets, deeper. As someone had already pointed out above, a guild could be advertising for DPS saying "40k DPS required". Gear score is also another "measurement" used as everyone wells knows. Here is where the exclusivity comes in. At this point you are telling people that if your not "gud" then you need not apply. To me this is not the purpose of an MMO. MMOs are fundamentally different than something like DOTA or LoL. These games are built around being multiplayer, but dont really focus on lore or cooperative game play outside a small group of people and actually promote competitive gameplay. This perspective can be toxic and can destroy a game from within.

Am I against damage meters in a game? Thats a tough question. My short answer is no but my longer answer is maybe. I have been playing MMOs for probably longer than some of you have been alive. Started back in the BBB days with dial-up MUDs. Circa 1992. I have seen the good and the bad of damage meters as well as many other "tools". Has it ever impacted me personally? No. But then I am a tank. I dont play anything other than a tank so DPS is not a concern for me. As long as I can take it to the face and still keep standing and keep my party from dying.. I am good. ;P But I have seen it impact friends of mine that were actually really good players but were "past" over cause there DPS wasn't quite high enough.. And yes, I have seen, on more than one occasion a group pass up someone who did 35.5k DPS and not 40k. So it does happen in contrast to what someone posted above.

So in closing, I support Stevens decision to not allow meters. I think he is thinking about the community as a whole and not a small sub-set of players that ultimately will drop playing a game over something a petty as "this content is to easy" vs those who continue playing cause the community is one where it allows for friendships to grow and people to escape the daily @%!tstorm that is life.

Upforsale

Dps meters totally ruin the flair and immersivenes (as do popping numbers over mobs) I wanna see the environment and fight monsters, not filling up some colorful bar with an ever raising number.

Daedrik45

After reading a couple post about dps meters, I decided to do a little experiment this morning during my guilds raid. I told my GM I wasn’t going to be using dps meter for the raid, he told me if it causes me to slip In dps I was to turn it back on, I said ok deal.

At first I was nervous lol, but bc I played my class for so long and mastered my rotation from leveling and doing dungeons for gear my nerves calmed after the first pull. I started to notice certain mechanics in fights I didn’t before small things that would give away the next step in the fight, certain movements etc. instead of constantly staring at the meter making sure I was at the right numbers, I was able to just play the game and enjoy myself.

Ironically my Gm whispered me and said “ wow this is the best you have parsed in any raid”

It was In this moment I realized what Steve was talking about and I’ve decided I’ll never use one ever again. I will trust my ability and put In the extra work to master my class! Freedom ladies and gentlemen, having no meter gave me FREEDOM.

SemisolidButter

Nice

Songcaller

Welcome to the other side

It can be daunting, but, the risk and reward are great lol

tugowar

This sounds like the kind of made up article I would read on the Washington Post.

Elder Soul

I am against dps meter, I never use it.

But remember, you master you class using it first.

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