GodsThesis wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » GodsThesis wrote: » I never felt excluded because the game didn't include my skin color or race of people. This idea seems very weak to me. I think people are stronger than that and I think OP you are stronger than that too. You shouldn't let some fantasy games make you feel uneasy because they didn't include your people. It's just fiction. I also think it's fine if the 8 "white classes" are just that. That doesn't mean they are all the same or do not have cultural diversity. For example, Italians,Irish, the British, the French, Germans, and other Euroethnic races generally are considered white, but they culturally differ from each other. There are 195 countries in the world with their own regions, including everyone would be impossible. Forced diversity is not diversity. It's the illusion of it. However, we don't know much of the lore yet, if at all really. There isn't really much to go off of. I wouldn't want the lore/gameworld to change due to diversity/inclusion. It should fit the philosophy/scope of those in charge to build what they think is the best MMO experience. Also let's be real man, these tulnar have been underground for God knows how long. They haven't seen sunlight in ages. If any ingame-race's skin color would be all white, it'd probably be them. Some of em do be reptiles and the like though. well luckily it doesnt matter what you feel is "weak" lol. ive played many games without a single black character and loved it. the whole point if my original post is thinking outside of the box and building a CREATIVE and DIVERSE world to immerse myself into and not just making cookie cutter games.. no culture is a monolith and considering that makes for a better game to me. cheers! You are being too shortsighted. It's not about what I think. It's about what you think (wrong btw since 2 people liked the post. If someone calls your idea weak maybe you should evaluate whether it is or not and provide a solid reason why it's stronger than mine. You are free to keep such fragile reasoning though man. I ain't bothered. You should remember you posted under discussion, the place, where you know... ideas, opposing or agreeing, are exchanged. If you want a circle jerk, there's Reddit. Hopefully, no one is ignorant as to what a discussion is when one posts under "general discussion". Ah so you are fine with playing a game without black characters and the lack of representation of yourself doesn't bother you. This clearly contradicts what you wrote in the opening. I thought it bothered you at an emotional level: suprvilln wrote: » "I was absolutely moved that a game I had loved since beta had finally thought to make a wider array of their player base feel more included.I can't even imagine the lack of representation felt by Asian, Latinx, Indigenous, etc people." This contradiction tells me you made a careless mistake, or as long as you get what you envisioned, you don't give care that much about inclusivity/diversity for the good of the game. Given the way you type/ respond to people though it's probably a mistake. You don't have to re-explain what your main point is. It ain't rocket science. I also think it's pretty safe to say most, if not all of us are fine with the game being diverse/inclusive. But whether your version matches with the developer's version is a different story. I'd rather trust in the vision of the developers over yours.
suprvilln wrote: » GodsThesis wrote: » I never felt excluded because the game didn't include my skin color or race of people. This idea seems very weak to me. I think people are stronger than that and I think OP you are stronger than that too. You shouldn't let some fantasy games make you feel uneasy because they didn't include your people. It's just fiction. I also think it's fine if the 8 "white classes" are just that. That doesn't mean they are all the same or do not have cultural diversity. For example, Italians,Irish, the British, the French, Germans, and other Euroethnic races generally are considered white, but they culturally differ from each other. There are 195 countries in the world with their own regions, including everyone would be impossible. Forced diversity is not diversity. It's the illusion of it. However, we don't know much of the lore yet, if at all really. There isn't really much to go off of. I wouldn't want the lore/gameworld to change due to diversity/inclusion. It should fit the philosophy/scope of those in charge to build what they think is the best MMO experience. Also let's be real man, these tulnar have been underground for God knows how long. They haven't seen sunlight in ages. If any ingame-race's skin color would be all white, it'd probably be them. Some of em do be reptiles and the like though. well luckily it doesnt matter what you feel is "weak" lol. ive played many games without a single black character and loved it. the whole point if my original post is thinking outside of the box and building a CREATIVE and DIVERSE world to immerse myself into and not just making cookie cutter games.. no culture is a monolith and considering that makes for a better game to me. cheers!
GodsThesis wrote: » I never felt excluded because the game didn't include my skin color or race of people. This idea seems very weak to me. I think people are stronger than that and I think OP you are stronger than that too. You shouldn't let some fantasy games make you feel uneasy because they didn't include your people. It's just fiction. I also think it's fine if the 8 "white classes" are just that. That doesn't mean they are all the same or do not have cultural diversity. For example, Italians,Irish, the British, the French, Germans, and other Euroethnic races generally are considered white, but they culturally differ from each other. There are 195 countries in the world with their own regions, including everyone would be impossible. Forced diversity is not diversity. It's the illusion of it. However, we don't know much of the lore yet, if at all really. There isn't really much to go off of. I wouldn't want the lore/gameworld to change due to diversity/inclusion. It should fit the philosophy/scope of those in charge to build what they think is the best MMO experience. Also let's be real man, these tulnar have been underground for God knows how long. They haven't seen sunlight in ages. If any ingame-race's skin color would be all white, it'd probably be them. Some of em do be reptiles and the like though.
suprvilln wrote: » "I was absolutely moved that a game I had loved since beta had finally thought to make a wider array of their player base feel more included.I can't even imagine the lack of representation felt by Asian, Latinx, Indigenous, etc people."
suprvilln wrote: » Hello there! Let's get this out of the way. I'm black. I was born black, raised black, and I feel I will be black for quite some time. I love gaming and exploring new worlds and new stories in those games. I have played only a handful of MMOs (BDO, ESO, GW1, GW2, Archeage, LOTRO) and only 1 has included a specific black ethnicity (ESO with Redguards) and 1 has a general human race with multiple ethnicities that you could create but can actually fit into a specific culture (GW2 with Elonans and Canthans). Even GW2 stumbled at first because for 4 years after launch the only hair options for black characters was an afro, dreadlocks, and a bald head (tacky and lacks creativity). It was only when they geared up towards their Path of Fire release that they included more diverse hairstyles and I was absolutely moved that a game I had loved since beta had finally thought to make a wider array of their player base feel more included. I can't even imagine the lack of representation felt by Asian, Latinx, Indigenous, etc people. I am super excited to play Ashes but looking at the races it looks like there are 8 white races and 1 kind of culturally ambiguous race that is meant to be a catch all for "non-white". Is it a big ask to think outside of the box more to include more culturally diverse characters to allow more people to be able to see themselves represented in the game without being locked to one character race? Like my main will be a dwarf for SURE. I have always loved dwarves. But why is there never any non-white dwarf races? Dwarves can be seen in mythology for cultures all around the world, not just in western Europe. Why do we keep clinging to these tropes? it is an honest question because this is something that serves as a barrier for immersion for myself and for many players of color. There are lots of cool stories there that are just waiting to be explored. I look forward to the responses I will get and the sad thing is I am ready to be demeaned and the berated by people for asking something so simple lol.
nidriks wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » nidriks wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » nidriks wrote: » Want to know what I think? I think that every day we're coming on these forums to a thread asking about real world problems in Ashes. Racial diversity, sexual diversity and possibly any other politics that can be imagined. I'm not trying to ignore real life issues or the reported discrimination against peoples of the world. Ashes is just a game though, and that is how it should be. Every day the news reports the issues of the world. Every day I hear it all. I play games like Ashes to escape that. I think we all do. So let's leave Ashes to be that escape from the real world. Im sorry for anyone that faces discrimination in real life, but, and let's be honest here, no one at Intrepid has designed these races to be discriminatory. Lets just all be gamers and have a politics free Ashes. It is ignorant and naïve of you to say people play games to escape the problems of the world when a lot if problems in the world can be found in games as well. You have to look at things in a bigger picture and for POC, LGBTQ, alt lifestyle people to live in a world where they are not fairly represented and then in their form of escape (gaming) they face those same things. That is the world we love in and these games and stories are made/told by people who live in the real world and if they want their game to truly be an escape then they would at least consider that they have the power to provide a sense of inclusion in a game that is often sparse in the real world. They of course do not have to but they do themselves and their player base a disservice by not doing so. From what i have learned/researched today it seems as though AoC has taken that into consideration which means a lot to me. Well of course some people play games to find the problems, but that is just modern PC politics. All it leads to is the knocking down of statues of someone who lived 200 years ago, or forced stories in culture in an effort to please everyone. There was a statue petitioned to be knocked down in Leeds, UK. It turned out the people petitioning were so ignorant that they had the wrong person. The statue was of the son, not the father. Did they back down? Did they heck. They got together and wracked their brains to find a reason to pull down the statue of the son. He was Robert Peel, the founder of the modern police force. That is PC culture. At any length. Like I say, I would love a world where all human beings are treated the same. I'd rather not force the issue either. I do play games to escape all this. I also think 'why play a game set in a fantasy universe influenced by the middle ages' if we don't want to escape? Do we all secretly long to be dwarves and elves? not going to go into politics but you named one instance in Leeds of people getting the wrong person, this does not negate the hundreds of statues that shouldn't be up. its not PC culture to cease idolizing/memorializing people who lived hateful lives or perpetuated genocide/massacre which is most often the case. the failure to see the world from someone else's shoes is what causes these issues in the first place. cheers matey. Over analysing a very different past does not change the future. Nor does forcing a race into a fantasy game to somewhat appease a group of people. But hopefully you will get the ability to create a realistic black character. I think you might have to accept the races are as they are though. Think yourself lucky the only black race is not EQs Erudites. Intellectual, better-than-thou magic users who moved to a far off island to concentrate on being better than everyone else. One day the world will be a better place for all. Over analysing history is not going to do that though, only educating the future.
suprvilln wrote: » nidriks wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » nidriks wrote: » Want to know what I think? I think that every day we're coming on these forums to a thread asking about real world problems in Ashes. Racial diversity, sexual diversity and possibly any other politics that can be imagined. I'm not trying to ignore real life issues or the reported discrimination against peoples of the world. Ashes is just a game though, and that is how it should be. Every day the news reports the issues of the world. Every day I hear it all. I play games like Ashes to escape that. I think we all do. So let's leave Ashes to be that escape from the real world. Im sorry for anyone that faces discrimination in real life, but, and let's be honest here, no one at Intrepid has designed these races to be discriminatory. Lets just all be gamers and have a politics free Ashes. It is ignorant and naïve of you to say people play games to escape the problems of the world when a lot if problems in the world can be found in games as well. You have to look at things in a bigger picture and for POC, LGBTQ, alt lifestyle people to live in a world where they are not fairly represented and then in their form of escape (gaming) they face those same things. That is the world we love in and these games and stories are made/told by people who live in the real world and if they want their game to truly be an escape then they would at least consider that they have the power to provide a sense of inclusion in a game that is often sparse in the real world. They of course do not have to but they do themselves and their player base a disservice by not doing so. From what i have learned/researched today it seems as though AoC has taken that into consideration which means a lot to me. Well of course some people play games to find the problems, but that is just modern PC politics. All it leads to is the knocking down of statues of someone who lived 200 years ago, or forced stories in culture in an effort to please everyone. There was a statue petitioned to be knocked down in Leeds, UK. It turned out the people petitioning were so ignorant that they had the wrong person. The statue was of the son, not the father. Did they back down? Did they heck. They got together and wracked their brains to find a reason to pull down the statue of the son. He was Robert Peel, the founder of the modern police force. That is PC culture. At any length. Like I say, I would love a world where all human beings are treated the same. I'd rather not force the issue either. I do play games to escape all this. I also think 'why play a game set in a fantasy universe influenced by the middle ages' if we don't want to escape? Do we all secretly long to be dwarves and elves? not going to go into politics but you named one instance in Leeds of people getting the wrong person, this does not negate the hundreds of statues that shouldn't be up. its not PC culture to cease idolizing/memorializing people who lived hateful lives or perpetuated genocide/massacre which is most often the case. the failure to see the world from someone else's shoes is what causes these issues in the first place. cheers matey.
nidriks wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » nidriks wrote: » Want to know what I think? I think that every day we're coming on these forums to a thread asking about real world problems in Ashes. Racial diversity, sexual diversity and possibly any other politics that can be imagined. I'm not trying to ignore real life issues or the reported discrimination against peoples of the world. Ashes is just a game though, and that is how it should be. Every day the news reports the issues of the world. Every day I hear it all. I play games like Ashes to escape that. I think we all do. So let's leave Ashes to be that escape from the real world. Im sorry for anyone that faces discrimination in real life, but, and let's be honest here, no one at Intrepid has designed these races to be discriminatory. Lets just all be gamers and have a politics free Ashes. It is ignorant and naïve of you to say people play games to escape the problems of the world when a lot if problems in the world can be found in games as well. You have to look at things in a bigger picture and for POC, LGBTQ, alt lifestyle people to live in a world where they are not fairly represented and then in their form of escape (gaming) they face those same things. That is the world we love in and these games and stories are made/told by people who live in the real world and if they want their game to truly be an escape then they would at least consider that they have the power to provide a sense of inclusion in a game that is often sparse in the real world. They of course do not have to but they do themselves and their player base a disservice by not doing so. From what i have learned/researched today it seems as though AoC has taken that into consideration which means a lot to me. Well of course some people play games to find the problems, but that is just modern PC politics. All it leads to is the knocking down of statues of someone who lived 200 years ago, or forced stories in culture in an effort to please everyone. There was a statue petitioned to be knocked down in Leeds, UK. It turned out the people petitioning were so ignorant that they had the wrong person. The statue was of the son, not the father. Did they back down? Did they heck. They got together and wracked their brains to find a reason to pull down the statue of the son. He was Robert Peel, the founder of the modern police force. That is PC culture. At any length. Like I say, I would love a world where all human beings are treated the same. I'd rather not force the issue either. I do play games to escape all this. I also think 'why play a game set in a fantasy universe influenced by the middle ages' if we don't want to escape? Do we all secretly long to be dwarves and elves?
suprvilln wrote: » nidriks wrote: » Want to know what I think? I think that every day we're coming on these forums to a thread asking about real world problems in Ashes. Racial diversity, sexual diversity and possibly any other politics that can be imagined. I'm not trying to ignore real life issues or the reported discrimination against peoples of the world. Ashes is just a game though, and that is how it should be. Every day the news reports the issues of the world. Every day I hear it all. I play games like Ashes to escape that. I think we all do. So let's leave Ashes to be that escape from the real world. Im sorry for anyone that faces discrimination in real life, but, and let's be honest here, no one at Intrepid has designed these races to be discriminatory. Lets just all be gamers and have a politics free Ashes. It is ignorant and naïve of you to say people play games to escape the problems of the world when a lot if problems in the world can be found in games as well. You have to look at things in a bigger picture and for POC, LGBTQ, alt lifestyle people to live in a world where they are not fairly represented and then in their form of escape (gaming) they face those same things. That is the world we love in and these games and stories are made/told by people who live in the real world and if they want their game to truly be an escape then they would at least consider that they have the power to provide a sense of inclusion in a game that is often sparse in the real world. They of course do not have to but they do themselves and their player base a disservice by not doing so. From what i have learned/researched today it seems as though AoC has taken that into consideration which means a lot to me.
nidriks wrote: » Want to know what I think? I think that every day we're coming on these forums to a thread asking about real world problems in Ashes. Racial diversity, sexual diversity and possibly any other politics that can be imagined. I'm not trying to ignore real life issues or the reported discrimination against peoples of the world. Ashes is just a game though, and that is how it should be. Every day the news reports the issues of the world. Every day I hear it all. I play games like Ashes to escape that. I think we all do. So let's leave Ashes to be that escape from the real world. Im sorry for anyone that faces discrimination in real life, but, and let's be honest here, no one at Intrepid has designed these races to be discriminatory. Lets just all be gamers and have a politics free Ashes.
nidriks wrote: » Lets just all be gamers and have a politics free Ashes.
suprvilln wrote: » GodsThesis wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » GodsThesis wrote: » I never felt excluded because the game didn't include my skin color or race of people. This idea seems very weak to me. I think people are stronger than that and I think OP you are stronger than that too. You shouldn't let some fantasy games make you feel uneasy because they didn't include your people. It's just fiction. I also think it's fine if the 8 "white classes" are just that. That doesn't mean they are all the same or do not have cultural diversity. For example, Italians,Irish, the British, the French, Germans, and other Euroethnic races generally are considered white, but they culturally differ from each other. There are 195 countries in the world with their own regions, including everyone would be impossible. Forced diversity is not diversity. It's the illusion of it. However, we don't know much of the lore yet, if at all really. There isn't really much to go off of. I wouldn't want the lore/gameworld to change due to diversity/inclusion. It should fit the philosophy/scope of those in charge to build what they think is the best MMO experience. Also let's be real man, these tulnar have been underground for God knows how long. They haven't seen sunlight in ages. If any ingame-race's skin color would be all white, it'd probably be them. Some of em do be reptiles and the like though. well luckily it doesnt matter what you feel is "weak" lol. ive played many games without a single black character and loved it. the whole point if my original post is thinking outside of the box and building a CREATIVE and DIVERSE world to immerse myself into and not just making cookie cutter games.. no culture is a monolith and considering that makes for a better game to me. cheers! You are being too shortsighted. It's not about what I think. It's about what you think (wrong btw since 2 people liked the post. If someone calls your idea weak maybe you should evaluate whether it is or not and provide a solid reason why it's stronger than mine. You are free to keep such fragile reasoning though man. I ain't bothered. You should remember you posted under discussion, the place, where you know... ideas, opposing or agreeing, are exchanged. If you want a circle jerk, there's Reddit. Hopefully, no one is ignorant as to what a discussion is when one posts under "general discussion". Ah so you are fine with playing a game without black characters and the lack of representation of yourself doesn't bother you. This clearly contradicts what you wrote in the opening. I thought it bothered you at an emotional level: suprvilln wrote: » "I was absolutely moved that a game I had loved since beta had finally thought to make a wider array of their player base feel more included.I can't even imagine the lack of representation felt by Asian, Latinx, Indigenous, etc people." This contradiction tells me you made a careless mistake, or as long as you get what you envisioned, you don't give care that much about inclusivity/diversity for the good of the game. Given the way you type/ respond to people though it's probably a mistake. You don't have to re-explain what your main point is. It ain't rocket science. I also think it's pretty safe to say most, if not all of us are fine with the game being diverse/inclusive. But whether your version matches with the developer's version is a different story. I'd rather trust in the vision of the developers over yours. TLDR.
GodsThesis wrote: » nidriks wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » nidriks wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » nidriks wrote: » Want to know what I think? I think that every day we're coming on these forums to a thread asking about real world problems in Ashes. Racial diversity, sexual diversity and possibly any other politics that can be imagined. I'm not trying to ignore real life issues or the reported discrimination against peoples of the world. Ashes is just a game though, and that is how it should be. Every day the news reports the issues of the world. Every day I hear it all. I play games like Ashes to escape that. I think we all do. So let's leave Ashes to be that escape from the real world. Im sorry for anyone that faces discrimination in real life, but, and let's be honest here, no one at Intrepid has designed these races to be discriminatory. Lets just all be gamers and have a politics free Ashes. It is ignorant and naïve of you to say people play games to escape the problems of the world when a lot if problems in the world can be found in games as well. You have to look at things in a bigger picture and for POC, LGBTQ, alt lifestyle people to live in a world where they are not fairly represented and then in their form of escape (gaming) they face those same things. That is the world we love in and these games and stories are made/told by people who live in the real world and if they want their game to truly be an escape then they would at least consider that they have the power to provide a sense of inclusion in a game that is often sparse in the real world. They of course do not have to but they do themselves and their player base a disservice by not doing so. From what i have learned/researched today it seems as though AoC has taken that into consideration which means a lot to me. Well of course some people play games to find the problems, but that is just modern PC politics. All it leads to is the knocking down of statues of someone who lived 200 years ago, or forced stories in culture in an effort to please everyone. There was a statue petitioned to be knocked down in Leeds, UK. It turned out the people petitioning were so ignorant that they had the wrong person. The statue was of the son, not the father. Did they back down? Did they heck. They got together and wracked their brains to find a reason to pull down the statue of the son. He was Robert Peel, the founder of the modern police force. That is PC culture. At any length. Like I say, I would love a world where all human beings are treated the same. I'd rather not force the issue either. I do play games to escape all this. I also think 'why play a game set in a fantasy universe influenced by the middle ages' if we don't want to escape? Do we all secretly long to be dwarves and elves? not going to go into politics but you named one instance in Leeds of people getting the wrong person, this does not negate the hundreds of statues that shouldn't be up. its not PC culture to cease idolizing/memorializing people who lived hateful lives or perpetuated genocide/massacre which is most often the case. the failure to see the world from someone else's shoes is what causes these issues in the first place. cheers matey. Over analysing a very different past does not change the future. Nor does forcing a race into a fantasy game to somewhat appease a group of people. But hopefully you will get the ability to create a realistic black character. I think you might have to accept the races are as they are though. Think yourself lucky the only black race is not EQs Erudites. Intellectual, better-than-thou magic users who moved to a far off island to concentrate on being better than everyone else. One day the world will be a better place for all. Over analysing history is not going to do that though, only educating the future. To help my fellow poster here what @nidriks is basically saying: "You shouldn't project your modern morals based on today's world to past morals and their own world". You should just look at moments/people in history as the product of their times. It's also important to remember them in order to recognize/ celebrate how far some civilizations have come, learned and continue to progress. This is a far more reasonable way to look at history because people are a product of their place in history/environment/ genetics. Figuratively and literally destroying the past is such a myopic-take, borderlining towards insanity. I doubt any of us would be such righteous figures had we been born in their world, their positions, their knowledge, and their way of life. It's very easy, lazy, and intellectually dishonest to view us as somehow holier than them as if we wouldn't conform into their shoes, when most probably would. If you, OP are going to lecture someone on looking at the bigger picture, maybe ya should probably not have such a shortsighted/ weak approach to history.
GodsThesis wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » GodsThesis wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » GodsThesis wrote: » I never felt excluded because the game didn't include my skin color or race of people. This idea seems very weak to me. I think people are stronger than that and I think OP you are stronger than that too. You shouldn't let some fantasy games make you feel uneasy because they didn't include your people. It's just fiction. I also think it's fine if the 8 "white classes" are just that. That doesn't mean they are all the same or do not have cultural diversity. For example, Italians,Irish, the British, the French, Germans, and other Euroethnic races generally are considered white, but they culturally differ from each other. There are 195 countries in the world with their own regions, including everyone would be impossible. Forced diversity is not diversity. It's the illusion of it. However, we don't know much of the lore yet, if at all really. There isn't really much to go off of. I wouldn't want the lore/gameworld to change due to diversity/inclusion. It should fit the philosophy/scope of those in charge to build what they think is the best MMO experience. Also let's be real man, these tulnar have been underground for God knows how long. They haven't seen sunlight in ages. If any ingame-race's skin color would be all white, it'd probably be them. Some of em do be reptiles and the like though. well luckily it doesnt matter what you feel is "weak" lol. ive played many games without a single black character and loved it. the whole point if my original post is thinking outside of the box and building a CREATIVE and DIVERSE world to immerse myself into and not just making cookie cutter games.. no culture is a monolith and considering that makes for a better game to me. cheers! You are being too shortsighted. It's not about what I think. It's about what you think (wrong btw since 2 people liked the post. If someone calls your idea weak maybe you should evaluate whether it is or not and provide a solid reason why it's stronger than mine. You are free to keep such fragile reasoning though man. I ain't bothered. You should remember you posted under discussion, the place, where you know... ideas, opposing or agreeing, are exchanged. If you want a circle jerk, there's Reddit. Hopefully, no one is ignorant as to what a discussion is when one posts under "general discussion". Ah so you are fine with playing a game without black characters and the lack of representation of yourself doesn't bother you. This clearly contradicts what you wrote in the opening. I thought it bothered you at an emotional level: suprvilln wrote: » "I was absolutely moved that a game I had loved since beta had finally thought to make a wider array of their player base feel more included.I can't even imagine the lack of representation felt by Asian, Latinx, Indigenous, etc people." This contradiction tells me you made a careless mistake, or as long as you get what you envisioned, you don't give care that much about inclusivity/diversity for the good of the game. Given the way you type/ respond to people though it's probably a mistake. You don't have to re-explain what your main point is. It ain't rocket science. I also think it's pretty safe to say most, if not all of us are fine with the game being diverse/inclusive. But whether your version matches with the developer's version is a different story. I'd rather trust in the vision of the developers over yours. TLDR. Imagine coming to a forum to discuss with others and saying you're "looking forward to the responses". But you ignore most of my posts, if not all of them even though I tried to be somewhat thoughtful. Yikes But hey man, I didn't expect that much from someone like you. So all good bro.
Nagash wrote: » And just like that you lost the crowd.
suprvilln wrote: » Nagash wrote: » And just like that you lost the crowd. Nah, the people who got my point got my point. There were people who didnt necessarily agree but i still found common ground with. then there are people who never agreed and never wanted to agree or find a common ground and that is a crowd i couldnt care less about.
suprvilln wrote: » GodsThesis wrote: » nidriks wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » nidriks wrote: » suprvilln wrote: » nidriks wrote: » Want to know what I think? I think that every day we're coming on these forums to a thread asking about real world problems in Ashes. Racial diversity, sexual diversity and possibly any other politics that can be imagined. I'm not trying to ignore real life issues or the reported discrimination against peoples of the world. Ashes is just a game though, and that is how it should be. Every day the news reports the issues of the world. Every day I hear it all. I play games like Ashes to escape that. I think we all do. So let's leave Ashes to be that escape from the real world. Im sorry for anyone that faces discrimination in real life, but, and let's be honest here, no one at Intrepid has designed these races to be discriminatory. Lets just all be gamers and have a politics free Ashes. It is ignorant and naïve of you to say people play games to escape the problems of the world when a lot if problems in the world can be found in games as well. You have to look at things in a bigger picture and for POC, LGBTQ, alt lifestyle people to live in a world where they are not fairly represented and then in their form of escape (gaming) they face those same things. That is the world we love in and these games and stories are made/told by people who live in the real world and if they want their game to truly be an escape then they would at least consider that they have the power to provide a sense of inclusion in a game that is often sparse in the real world. They of course do not have to but they do themselves and their player base a disservice by not doing so. From what i have learned/researched today it seems as though AoC has taken that into consideration which means a lot to me. Well of course some people play games to find the problems, but that is just modern PC politics. All it leads to is the knocking down of statues of someone who lived 200 years ago, or forced stories in culture in an effort to please everyone. There was a statue petitioned to be knocked down in Leeds, UK. It turned out the people petitioning were so ignorant that they had the wrong person. The statue was of the son, not the father. Did they back down? Did they heck. They got together and wracked their brains to find a reason to pull down the statue of the son. He was Robert Peel, the founder of the modern police force. That is PC culture. At any length. Like I say, I would love a world where all human beings are treated the same. I'd rather not force the issue either. I do play games to escape all this. I also think 'why play a game set in a fantasy universe influenced by the middle ages' if we don't want to escape? Do we all secretly long to be dwarves and elves? not going to go into politics but you named one instance in Leeds of people getting the wrong person, this does not negate the hundreds of statues that shouldn't be up. its not PC culture to cease idolizing/memorializing people who lived hateful lives or perpetuated genocide/massacre which is most often the case. the failure to see the world from someone else's shoes is what causes these issues in the first place. cheers matey. Over analysing a very different past does not change the future. Nor does forcing a race into a fantasy game to somewhat appease a group of people. But hopefully you will get the ability to create a realistic black character. I think you might have to accept the races are as they are though. Think yourself lucky the only black race is not EQs Erudites. Intellectual, better-than-thou magic users who moved to a far off island to concentrate on being better than everyone else. One day the world will be a better place for all. Over analysing history is not going to do that though, only educating the future. To help my fellow poster here what @nidriks is basically saying: "You shouldn't project your modern morals based on today's world to past morals and their own world". You should just look at moments/people in history as the product of their times. It's also important to remember them in order to recognize/ celebrate how far some civilizations have come, learned and continue to progress. This is a far more reasonable way to look at history because people are a product of their place in history/environment/ genetics. Figuratively and literally destroying the past is such a myopic-take, borderlining towards insanity. I doubt any of us would be such righteous figures had we been born in their world, their positions, their knowledge, and their way of life. It's very easy, lazy, and intellectually dishonest to view us as somehow holier than them as if we wouldn't conform into their shoes, when most probably would. If you, OP are going to lecture someone on looking at the bigger picture, maybe ya should probably not have such a shortsighted/ weak approach to history. destroying a statue is not destroying the past. Germany does not celebrate Hitler but obviously they and much of the world is quite aware of their past. remembering historical figured and celebrating them are two different things. sweeping history under the rug is quite another, which is why it took the Watchmen HBO series for most people to even be aware of the Tulsa bombings...media can have a positive and informative impact. "they were a product of their time" --- there were far more compassionate and worthy figures to celebrate from then. To say they were products of their time is folly as there were MANY people of the exact same era that did not perpetuate the same crimes.
