noaani wrote: » @nelsonrebel nelsonrebel wrote: » 1. To my knowledge Steven has already explicitly stated they are not implementing dps trackers. If thats incorrect provide the statement showing otherwise and I'll revise my stance on that information since addons are also not being allowed in AoC. 2. History shows that once ingame measured of trackers are implemented and are used without player consent the pve community becomes a toxic wasteland of centimeter measuring and blatant elitism. Steven himself has already said and explained the same thing. Arguing semantics over what is known and experienced is not an argument its just you being angry that people point out what inevitably happens when you make it easy for elitism to thrive, it stalls out the community from new players because self absorbed groups take meters as the holy grail only acceptable way to do content 3. DPS meters are not a game ranking system. This isn't a debate. The issue with a personal combat tracker that you can opt to share is that since it is a thing that is possible, players will assume that the share function exists in order to see how good players are before grouping with them. Players will make sharing combat tracker data a requirement of joining any and all pick up groups, making the fact that it is "personal" irrelevent. This will increase toxicity, not decrease it. If a combat tracker exists, it needs to have hard borders as to who can and who can not see that data. To me, this should be guild based. I am fine with (and suggested about a year ago) there also being training dummies for people not in guilds with trackers - but to me, that data should not be able to be shared in game.
nelsonrebel wrote: » 1. To my knowledge Steven has already explicitly stated they are not implementing dps trackers. If thats incorrect provide the statement showing otherwise and I'll revise my stance on that information since addons are also not being allowed in AoC. 2. History shows that once ingame measured of trackers are implemented and are used without player consent the pve community becomes a toxic wasteland of centimeter measuring and blatant elitism. Steven himself has already said and explained the same thing. Arguing semantics over what is known and experienced is not an argument its just you being angry that people point out what inevitably happens when you make it easy for elitism to thrive, it stalls out the community from new players because self absorbed groups take meters as the holy grail only acceptable way to do content 3. DPS meters are not a game ranking system. This isn't a debate.
nelsonrebel wrote: » noaani wrote: » @nelsonrebel nelsonrebel wrote: » 1. To my knowledge Steven has already explicitly stated they are not implementing dps trackers. If thats incorrect provide the statement showing otherwise and I'll revise my stance on that information since addons are also not being allowed in AoC. 2. History shows that once ingame measured of trackers are implemented and are used without player consent the pve community becomes a toxic wasteland of centimeter measuring and blatant elitism. Steven himself has already said and explained the same thing. Arguing semantics over what is known and experienced is not an argument its just you being angry that people point out what inevitably happens when you make it easy for elitism to thrive, it stalls out the community from new players because self absorbed groups take meters as the holy grail only acceptable way to do content 3. DPS meters are not a game ranking system. This isn't a debate. The issue with a personal combat tracker that you can opt to share is that since it is a thing that is possible, players will assume that the share function exists in order to see how good players are before grouping with them. Players will make sharing combat tracker data a requirement of joining any and all pick up groups, making the fact that it is "personal" irrelevent. This will increase toxicity, not decrease it. If a combat tracker exists, it needs to have hard borders as to who can and who can not see that data. To me, this should be guild based. I am fine with (and suggested about a year ago) there also being training dummies for people not in guilds with trackers - but to me, that data should not be able to be shared in game. So long as you support non consensual tracking on an individual basis theres really nothing more I have to speak with you on this. If there is No 100% player choice in a *possible* tracking tool guild or no guild. Then I am full stop 100% against you in any implementation of it and I will support Stevens hard stance against one at all.
Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » noaani wrote: » @nelsonrebel nelsonrebel wrote: » 1. To my knowledge Steven has already explicitly stated they are not implementing dps trackers. If thats incorrect provide the statement showing otherwise and I'll revise my stance on that information since addons are also not being allowed in AoC. 2. History shows that once ingame measured of trackers are implemented and are used without player consent the pve community becomes a toxic wasteland of centimeter measuring and blatant elitism. Steven himself has already said and explained the same thing. Arguing semantics over what is known and experienced is not an argument its just you being angry that people point out what inevitably happens when you make it easy for elitism to thrive, it stalls out the community from new players because self absorbed groups take meters as the holy grail only acceptable way to do content 3. DPS meters are not a game ranking system. This isn't a debate. The issue with a personal combat tracker that you can opt to share is that since it is a thing that is possible, players will assume that the share function exists in order to see how good players are before grouping with them. Players will make sharing combat tracker data a requirement of joining any and all pick up groups, making the fact that it is "personal" irrelevent. This will increase toxicity, not decrease it. If a combat tracker exists, it needs to have hard borders as to who can and who can not see that data. To me, this should be guild based. I am fine with (and suggested about a year ago) there also being training dummies for people not in guilds with trackers - but to me, that data should not be able to be shared in game. So long as you support non consensual tracking on an individual basis theres really nothing more I have to speak with you on this. If there is No 100% player choice in a *possible* tracking tool guild or no guild. Then I am full stop 100% against you in any implementation of it and I will support Stevens hard stance against one at all. Are you joking? How is it non consensual if you are consenting to join and be apart of that guild?
nelsonrebel wrote: » Ademptio wrote: » I tend to play with friends/family who are generally PvE/RPers and play MMO's just for fun and are very intimidated when they want to join WoW dungeons due to people asking for "Looking for 12k DPS to kill X boss"... This scares off players to even try and join content. Exactly. This is what I mean when the pve community gets stagnant and stalls itself out. It just chases away new players. Whereas people saying "looking for dps,tank, healer" is a lot more open and inviting and promotes a bit more social interactions and you would think in a MMO that would be more important. The knowing mechanics, group composition, and communication will always be more important and I missed the older days when these parts were where the most focus was at and communities thrived on teaching and reaching out to newer/ less experienced players by needing to fill roles rather than filling arbitrary number percentages when people will over dps anyways
Ademptio wrote: » I tend to play with friends/family who are generally PvE/RPers and play MMO's just for fun and are very intimidated when they want to join WoW dungeons due to people asking for "Looking for 12k DPS to kill X boss"... This scares off players to even try and join content.
debase wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Ademptio wrote: » I tend to play with friends/family who are generally PvE/RPers and play MMO's just for fun and are very intimidated when they want to join WoW dungeons due to people asking for "Looking for 12k DPS to kill X boss"... This scares off players to even try and join content. Exactly. This is what I mean when the pve community gets stagnant and stalls itself out. It just chases away new players. Whereas people saying "looking for dps,tank, healer" is a lot more open and inviting and promotes a bit more social interactions and you would think in a MMO that would be more important. The knowing mechanics, group composition, and communication will always be more important and I missed the older days when these parts were where the most focus was at and communities thrived on teaching and reaching out to newer/ less experienced players by needing to fill roles rather than filling arbitrary number percentages when people will over dps anyways If bosses have dps checks/enrage timers or are otherwise more difficult because of dps requirements, you are going to have groups/guilds seeking good players and tossing worse players regardless of whether you have a dps meter or not. I don't care if they do it or not, but in a game where things like looting rights are determined by dps as has been indicated... you better believe people are going to push players one way or another on the dps front. If there are mechanics that set requirements for how much damage or how fast things get killed, they will find a way to assess it with or without a dps meter.
nelsonrebel wrote: » Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » noaani wrote: » @nelsonrebel nelsonrebel wrote: » 1. To my knowledge Steven has already explicitly stated they are not implementing dps trackers. If thats incorrect provide the statement showing otherwise and I'll revise my stance on that information since addons are also not being allowed in AoC. 2. History shows that once ingame measured of trackers are implemented and are used without player consent the pve community becomes a toxic wasteland of centimeter measuring and blatant elitism. Steven himself has already said and explained the same thing. Arguing semantics over what is known and experienced is not an argument its just you being angry that people point out what inevitably happens when you make it easy for elitism to thrive, it stalls out the community from new players because self absorbed groups take meters as the holy grail only acceptable way to do content 3. DPS meters are not a game ranking system. This isn't a debate. The issue with a personal combat tracker that you can opt to share is that since it is a thing that is possible, players will assume that the share function exists in order to see how good players are before grouping with them. Players will make sharing combat tracker data a requirement of joining any and all pick up groups, making the fact that it is "personal" irrelevent. This will increase toxicity, not decrease it. If a combat tracker exists, it needs to have hard borders as to who can and who can not see that data. To me, this should be guild based. I am fine with (and suggested about a year ago) there also being training dummies for people not in guilds with trackers - but to me, that data should not be able to be shared in game. So long as you support non consensual tracking on an individual basis theres really nothing more I have to speak with you on this. If there is No 100% player choice in a *possible* tracking tool guild or no guild. Then I am full stop 100% against you in any implementation of it and I will support Stevens hard stance against one at all. Are you joking? How is it non consensual if you are consenting to join and be apart of that guild? Joining a guild is one thing. Having them turn stuff on and off of you is another matter entirely. Lets say I join X guild and he promises to do casual content even though my max X amount of dps is this or that. He turns it on anyway to be nosy posts it around and flaunts it regardless of my choice. Unless the feature is personal and consensual I am 100% stop on any form of a meter. Thats it, nothing more. If you're against consensual meters or private meters, then you're against player choice and I will have no middle ground with you on this topic.
nelsonrebel wrote: » debase wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Ademptio wrote: » I tend to play with friends/family who are generally PvE/RPers and play MMO's just for fun and are very intimidated when they want to join WoW dungeons due to people asking for "Looking for 12k DPS to kill X boss"... This scares off players to even try and join content. Exactly. This is what I mean when the pve community gets stagnant and stalls itself out. It just chases away new players. Whereas people saying "looking for dps,tank, healer" is a lot more open and inviting and promotes a bit more social interactions and you would think in a MMO that would be more important. The knowing mechanics, group composition, and communication will always be more important and I missed the older days when these parts were where the most focus was at and communities thrived on teaching and reaching out to newer/ less experienced players by needing to fill roles rather than filling arbitrary number percentages when people will over dps anyways If bosses have dps checks/enrage timers or are otherwise more difficult because of dps requirements, you are going to have groups/guilds seeking good players and tossing worse players regardless of whether you have a dps meter or not. I don't care if they do it or not, but in a game where things like looting rights are determined by dps as has been indicated... you better believe people are going to push players one way or another on the dps front. If there are mechanics that set requirements for how much damage or how fast things get killed, they will find a way to assess it with or without a dps meter. forced
Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » noaani wrote: » @nelsonrebel nelsonrebel wrote: » 1. To my knowledge Steven has already explicitly stated they are not implementing dps trackers. If thats incorrect provide the statement showing otherwise and I'll revise my stance on that information since addons are also not being allowed in AoC. 2. History shows that once ingame measured of trackers are implemented and are used without player consent the pve community becomes a toxic wasteland of centimeter measuring and blatant elitism. Steven himself has already said and explained the same thing. Arguing semantics over what is known and experienced is not an argument its just you being angry that people point out what inevitably happens when you make it easy for elitism to thrive, it stalls out the community from new players because self absorbed groups take meters as the holy grail only acceptable way to do content 3. DPS meters are not a game ranking system. This isn't a debate. The issue with a personal combat tracker that you can opt to share is that since it is a thing that is possible, players will assume that the share function exists in order to see how good players are before grouping with them. Players will make sharing combat tracker data a requirement of joining any and all pick up groups, making the fact that it is "personal" irrelevent. This will increase toxicity, not decrease it. If a combat tracker exists, it needs to have hard borders as to who can and who can not see that data. To me, this should be guild based. I am fine with (and suggested about a year ago) there also being training dummies for people not in guilds with trackers - but to me, that data should not be able to be shared in game. So long as you support non consensual tracking on an individual basis theres really nothing more I have to speak with you on this. If there is No 100% player choice in a *possible* tracking tool guild or no guild. Then I am full stop 100% against you in any implementation of it and I will support Stevens hard stance against one at all. Are you joking? How is it non consensual if you are consenting to join and be apart of that guild? Joining a guild is one thing. Having them turn stuff on and off of you is another matter entirely. Lets say I join X guild and he promises to do casual content even though my max X amount of dps is this or that. He turns it on anyway to be nosy posts it around and flaunts it regardless of my choice. Unless the feature is personal and consensual I am 100% stop on any form of a meter. Thats it, nothing more. If you're against consensual meters or private meters, then you're against player choice and I will have no middle ground with you on this topic. It could be something guildies have to vote for, it could be something that can't be turned on/off without expending a bunch of resources, it could announce in guild that someone is attempting to turn it on, etc. There are many ways around it, and many ways for you to just simply quit the guild and find one better suited to you. And like I've said in previous posts, without an in game way to track combat, there will be 3rd party ways, and then you'll have guild leaders doing what you are worried about except with no way to prove it's them or someone else in the guild, without any way to stop it, without any knowledge that it's happening, etc. If it's a guild perk, you'd be able to tell before you even stepped into raid if it was on or not.
Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » debase wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Ademptio wrote: » I tend to play with friends/family who are generally PvE/RPers and play MMO's just for fun and are very intimidated when they want to join WoW dungeons due to people asking for "Looking for 12k DPS to kill X boss"... This scares off players to even try and join content. Exactly. This is what I mean when the pve community gets stagnant and stalls itself out. It just chases away new players. Whereas people saying "looking for dps,tank, healer" is a lot more open and inviting and promotes a bit more social interactions and you would think in a MMO that would be more important. The knowing mechanics, group composition, and communication will always be more important and I missed the older days when these parts were where the most focus was at and communities thrived on teaching and reaching out to newer/ less experienced players by needing to fill roles rather than filling arbitrary number percentages when people will over dps anyways If bosses have dps checks/enrage timers or are otherwise more difficult because of dps requirements, you are going to have groups/guilds seeking good players and tossing worse players regardless of whether you have a dps meter or not. I don't care if they do it or not, but in a game where things like looting rights are determined by dps as has been indicated... you better believe people are going to push players one way or another on the dps front. If there are mechanics that set requirements for how much damage or how fast things get killed, they will find a way to assess it with or without a dps meter. forced You keep using this word and I don't think you know what it means
nelsonrebel wrote: » Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » noaani wrote: » @nelsonrebel nelsonrebel wrote: » 1. To my knowledge Steven has already explicitly stated they are not implementing dps trackers. If thats incorrect provide the statement showing otherwise and I'll revise my stance on that information since addons are also not being allowed in AoC. 2. History shows that once ingame measured of trackers are implemented and are used without player consent the pve community becomes a toxic wasteland of centimeter measuring and blatant elitism. Steven himself has already said and explained the same thing. Arguing semantics over what is known and experienced is not an argument its just you being angry that people point out what inevitably happens when you make it easy for elitism to thrive, it stalls out the community from new players because self absorbed groups take meters as the holy grail only acceptable way to do content 3. DPS meters are not a game ranking system. This isn't a debate. The issue with a personal combat tracker that you can opt to share is that since it is a thing that is possible, players will assume that the share function exists in order to see how good players are before grouping with them. Players will make sharing combat tracker data a requirement of joining any and all pick up groups, making the fact that it is "personal" irrelevent. This will increase toxicity, not decrease it. If a combat tracker exists, it needs to have hard borders as to who can and who can not see that data. To me, this should be guild based. I am fine with (and suggested about a year ago) there also being training dummies for people not in guilds with trackers - but to me, that data should not be able to be shared in game. So long as you support non consensual tracking on an individual basis theres really nothing more I have to speak with you on this. If there is No 100% player choice in a *possible* tracking tool guild or no guild. Then I am full stop 100% against you in any implementation of it and I will support Stevens hard stance against one at all. Are you joking? How is it non consensual if you are consenting to join and be apart of that guild? Joining a guild is one thing. Having them turn stuff on and off of you is another matter entirely. Lets say I join X guild and he promises to do casual content even though my max X amount of dps is this or that. He turns it on anyway to be nosy posts it around and flaunts it regardless of my choice. Unless the feature is personal and consensual I am 100% stop on any form of a meter. Thats it, nothing more. If you're against consensual meters or private meters, then you're against player choice and I will have no middle ground with you on this topic. It could be something guildies have to vote for, it could be something that can't be turned on/off without expending a bunch of resources, it could announce in guild that someone is attempting to turn it on, etc. There are many ways around it, and many ways for you to just simply quit the guild and find one better suited to you. And like I've said in previous posts, without an in game way to track combat, there will be 3rd party ways, and then you'll have guild leaders doing what you are worried about except with no way to prove it's them or someone else in the guild, without any way to stop it, without any knowledge that it's happening, etc. If it's a guild perk, you'd be able to tell before you even stepped into raid if it was on or not. Why have all that instead of just simply having a private meter? You ASK the individual and they either consent or dont. The players decide what to do afterwards. Like I said there is no justifiable reason to be against a consensual basis for the individual players. As for third party software if they want to risk the ban for it, or the risk of downloading software onto their rig, more power to them.
Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » noaani wrote: » @nelsonrebel nelsonrebel wrote: » 1. To my knowledge Steven has already explicitly stated they are not implementing dps trackers. If thats incorrect provide the statement showing otherwise and I'll revise my stance on that information since addons are also not being allowed in AoC. 2. History shows that once ingame measured of trackers are implemented and are used without player consent the pve community becomes a toxic wasteland of centimeter measuring and blatant elitism. Steven himself has already said and explained the same thing. Arguing semantics over what is known and experienced is not an argument its just you being angry that people point out what inevitably happens when you make it easy for elitism to thrive, it stalls out the community from new players because self absorbed groups take meters as the holy grail only acceptable way to do content 3. DPS meters are not a game ranking system. This isn't a debate. The issue with a personal combat tracker that you can opt to share is that since it is a thing that is possible, players will assume that the share function exists in order to see how good players are before grouping with them. Players will make sharing combat tracker data a requirement of joining any and all pick up groups, making the fact that it is "personal" irrelevent. This will increase toxicity, not decrease it. If a combat tracker exists, it needs to have hard borders as to who can and who can not see that data. To me, this should be guild based. I am fine with (and suggested about a year ago) there also being training dummies for people not in guilds with trackers - but to me, that data should not be able to be shared in game. So long as you support non consensual tracking on an individual basis theres really nothing more I have to speak with you on this. If there is No 100% player choice in a *possible* tracking tool guild or no guild. Then I am full stop 100% against you in any implementation of it and I will support Stevens hard stance against one at all. Are you joking? How is it non consensual if you are consenting to join and be apart of that guild? Joining a guild is one thing. Having them turn stuff on and off of you is another matter entirely. Lets say I join X guild and he promises to do casual content even though my max X amount of dps is this or that. He turns it on anyway to be nosy posts it around and flaunts it regardless of my choice. Unless the feature is personal and consensual I am 100% stop on any form of a meter. Thats it, nothing more. If you're against consensual meters or private meters, then you're against player choice and I will have no middle ground with you on this topic. It could be something guildies have to vote for, it could be something that can't be turned on/off without expending a bunch of resources, it could announce in guild that someone is attempting to turn it on, etc. There are many ways around it, and many ways for you to just simply quit the guild and find one better suited to you. And like I've said in previous posts, without an in game way to track combat, there will be 3rd party ways, and then you'll have guild leaders doing what you are worried about except with no way to prove it's them or someone else in the guild, without any way to stop it, without any knowledge that it's happening, etc. If it's a guild perk, you'd be able to tell before you even stepped into raid if it was on or not. Why have all that instead of just simply having a private meter? You ASK the individual and they either consent or dont. The players decide what to do afterwards. Like I said there is no justifiable reason to be against a consensual basis for the individual players. As for third party software if they want to risk the ban for it, or the risk of downloading software onto their rig, more power to them. Also private meters are a hassle, do you really want to spend every raid wipe spending 40 minutes for everyone to send their logs to the raid lead?
nelsonrebel wrote: » Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » debase wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Ademptio wrote: » I tend to play with friends/family who are generally PvE/RPers and play MMO's just for fun and are very intimidated when they want to join WoW dungeons due to people asking for "Looking for 12k DPS to kill X boss"... This scares off players to even try and join content. Exactly. This is what I mean when the pve community gets stagnant and stalls itself out. It just chases away new players. Whereas people saying "looking for dps,tank, healer" is a lot more open and inviting and promotes a bit more social interactions and you would think in a MMO that would be more important. The knowing mechanics, group composition, and communication will always be more important and I missed the older days when these parts were where the most focus was at and communities thrived on teaching and reaching out to newer/ less experienced players by needing to fill roles rather than filling arbitrary number percentages when people will over dps anyways If bosses have dps checks/enrage timers or are otherwise more difficult because of dps requirements, you are going to have groups/guilds seeking good players and tossing worse players regardless of whether you have a dps meter or not. I don't care if they do it or not, but in a game where things like looting rights are determined by dps as has been indicated... you better believe people are going to push players one way or another on the dps front. If there are mechanics that set requirements for how much damage or how fast things get killed, they will find a way to assess it with or without a dps meter. forced You keep using this word and I don't think you know what it means It means exactly what the definition is. Just because you dont like someone having the choice to say NO to your meters doesn't change that.
"cleansingtotem wrote: » Wow has the most hardcore and challenging raiding to this day. So not sure what your talking about.
Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » debase wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Ademptio wrote: » I tend to play with friends/family who are generally PvE/RPers and play MMO's just for fun and are very intimidated when they want to join WoW dungeons due to people asking for "Looking for 12k DPS to kill X boss"... This scares off players to even try and join content. Exactly. This is what I mean when the pve community gets stagnant and stalls itself out. It just chases away new players. Whereas people saying "looking for dps,tank, healer" is a lot more open and inviting and promotes a bit more social interactions and you would think in a MMO that would be more important. The knowing mechanics, group composition, and communication will always be more important and I missed the older days when these parts were where the most focus was at and communities thrived on teaching and reaching out to newer/ less experienced players by needing to fill roles rather than filling arbitrary number percentages when people will over dps anyways If bosses have dps checks/enrage timers or are otherwise more difficult because of dps requirements, you are going to have groups/guilds seeking good players and tossing worse players regardless of whether you have a dps meter or not. I don't care if they do it or not, but in a game where things like looting rights are determined by dps as has been indicated... you better believe people are going to push players one way or another on the dps front. If there are mechanics that set requirements for how much damage or how fast things get killed, they will find a way to assess it with or without a dps meter. forced You keep using this word and I don't think you know what it means It means exactly what the definition is. Just because you dont like someone having the choice to say NO to your meters doesn't change that. You do have the choice though, you dense asshole. You have the choice to not join the guild.
nelsonrebel wrote: » Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » debase wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Ademptio wrote: » I tend to play with friends/family who are generally PvE/RPers and play MMO's just for fun and are very intimidated when they want to join WoW dungeons due to people asking for "Looking for 12k DPS to kill X boss"... This scares off players to even try and join content. Exactly. This is what I mean when the pve community gets stagnant and stalls itself out. It just chases away new players. Whereas people saying "looking for dps,tank, healer" is a lot more open and inviting and promotes a bit more social interactions and you would think in a MMO that would be more important. The knowing mechanics, group composition, and communication will always be more important and I missed the older days when these parts were where the most focus was at and communities thrived on teaching and reaching out to newer/ less experienced players by needing to fill roles rather than filling arbitrary number percentages when people will over dps anyways If bosses have dps checks/enrage timers or are otherwise more difficult because of dps requirements, you are going to have groups/guilds seeking good players and tossing worse players regardless of whether you have a dps meter or not. I don't care if they do it or not, but in a game where things like looting rights are determined by dps as has been indicated... you better believe people are going to push players one way or another on the dps front. If there are mechanics that set requirements for how much damage or how fast things get killed, they will find a way to assess it with or without a dps meter. forced You keep using this word and I don't think you know what it means It means exactly what the definition is. Just because you dont like someone having the choice to say NO to your meters doesn't change that. You do have the choice though, you dense asshole. You have the choice to not join the guild. Someone seems a bit angry here. I already explained why joining the guild and the guild non-consensually having access to my private data in the game is still a problem if joined and the leader/leaders do the exact opposite.
Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Linstead wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » debase wrote: » nelsonrebel wrote: » Ademptio wrote: » I tend to play with friends/family who are generally PvE/RPers and play MMO's just for fun and are very intimidated when they want to join WoW dungeons due to people asking for "Looking for 12k DPS to kill X boss"... This scares off players to even try and join content. Exactly. This is what I mean when the pve community gets stagnant and stalls itself out. It just chases away new players. Whereas people saying "looking for dps,tank, healer" is a lot more open and inviting and promotes a bit more social interactions and you would think in a MMO that would be more important. The knowing mechanics, group composition, and communication will always be more important and I missed the older days when these parts were where the most focus was at and communities thrived on teaching and reaching out to newer/ less experienced players by needing to fill roles rather than filling arbitrary number percentages when people will over dps anyways If bosses have dps checks/enrage timers or are otherwise more difficult because of dps requirements, you are going to have groups/guilds seeking good players and tossing worse players regardless of whether you have a dps meter or not. I don't care if they do it or not, but in a game where things like looting rights are determined by dps as has been indicated... you better believe people are going to push players one way or another on the dps front. If there are mechanics that set requirements for how much damage or how fast things get killed, they will find a way to assess it with or without a dps meter. forced You keep using this word and I don't think you know what it means It means exactly what the definition is. Just because you dont like someone having the choice to say NO to your meters doesn't change that. You do have the choice though, you dense asshole. You have the choice to not join the guild. Someone seems a bit angry here. I already explained why joining the guild and the guild non-consensually having access to my private data in the game is still a problem if joined and the leader/leaders do the exact opposite. And you completely ignored my rebuttal and my suggestion that it could be a voting system for the perk or it could tell the guild that it's turned on. I'm sure they won't just be able to sneakily change guild perks during a raid, you are being a disingenuous, ignorant, and purposefully obtuse person.
