Why i will not be playing AoC

Hey Everyone,

I heard about this game recently and there is a ton of good that i saw. Unfortunately as much as i enjoy destroying people in PVP i enjoy PVE more. The answers toward PVE and some of the examples i have seen sound cool but do not fulfill my wants as someone who enjoys PVE and more particularly Raiding. I was really hoping AoC would check all the boxes but it fell short. It checks alot of boxes and even adds boxes. However, this game appears to be falling short on some important points. Its stance towards Addons which is essentially a stance against players who want to make the game better or easier in a sort. I am typically a minimalist in this area so i was not too worried about it. I also think any addon ideas should be brought up now and maybe they can just add those features. An example of a feature i would like to see is a map of sorts you can right strategy on for the team to look at and also be able to mark on. This is now a addon in WoW. I use it a lot because its nice to be able to draw a encounter or upload the map and draw out our strategies. However DPS meters and healing meters have been lumped into that. Its almost a disrespect to someones intelligence to even debate the topic because its essential. Its not even that its just essential but if you don't want to see it so you can immerse yourself into a game. an example would be questing or exploring. Just TURN IT OFF. DPS meters do not have to be displayed 100% of the time. PVE events were just displayed on taking a castle where loot would go to the guild with the most dmg or be given by dmg output yet there is no dps meter. This is honestly a huge let down for them to go over both of these points nearly back to back without notice of the logic contradicting itself. i for one would like a option to hide my UI as well so i can do just that. immerse myself while questing or hanging out at a tavern. I have a feeling class balancing may also be a reason why the dps meter is something the developers are against dps meters. ESO had issues with OP builds plaguing a diverse class selection. They dont have to worry about it if they don't have meters. well not as much anyway. The third issue is more so because i am a community leader and i do not want to be forced to have a particular size community. I have had huge communities and small. I do not want to have to recruit and manage a 40 man raid team or larger. The best example of where a game got it right would be WoW Wrath of the Lich King where they allowed 25 or 10 man raids. Options and scaling works wonders. I understand because i saw more of the game of why the game is being tuned this way. The hope is that there is a huge community in this game. However with its not so friendly PVE content. I think the communities will not meet exceptions at max level. Which will break the meta being created. Things can change as the game is in alpha but from what i am seeing from the small community here and the streams. This game is going to have everything i wish WoW had. However it wont have what WoW has. WoW with all of its faults still has a community and raids with a lot of effort put into them. They have made mistakes with the last expansion but they are also now opening up legacy servers. Its hard from a PVE stand point to pick AoC over TBC or a possible good retail expansion or even WOTLK. PVP is still good in WoW and i enjoy it a lot. I love alot of what i am seeing here however i am getting flash backs of the last WoW killer, the one before that, and that. I think AoC is a step in the right direction. i like the thinking outside of the box and mixing some PVE and PVP.

I may hop into a stream or 2 and check on the development but i think the issues are too deeply placed. Not to mention real feedback is hard to find. People are easily distracted by pretty things and i for better or for worse have a good way of getting to the meat and potatoes.

cheers,
Tarnish

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Hurf Derfman

Tarnish wrote: »

wArchAngel wrote: »

I've said it earlier, i will repeat it again.
I dont mind you carebearing as much as you want, i dont mind a lot of instanced content, it can be as hard as you wish.
I DONT want those instances to drop BiS's(Best in Slots), or uniques, that will actually force people to go there, but will give an equal opportunity for free to everyone to get those BiS's and uniques. This kind of gear should be behind a competition wall, not some mob in a pvp-free separated area.

the hardest instanced raid in the game should drop the bis items. however i think they should be materials that should be smelted or refined by masters, then forged by masters into something. just my opinion.

Hey "Old School",
BiS items will be crafted not static drops.
Rember Thunder Fury?

You should try spending more time on the wiki and get educated before trying to indoctrinate everybody with your "correct think."

halbarz

Bit late to the discussion but I do want to point out that WoW's large player base is not due it being a good game because let's be honest it is flawed as hell.

WoW is popular because it caters to a lot of people, to have decent gear you do not have to be actually good at the game. The systems are extremely simplistic and the player base is large because it was the first MMO to really go big in the early/mid 2000. People play the game because it is for most people their first real MMO. it is familiar, it's a safe space you can say, and again it is not very in-depth. (system / feature-wise)
WoW does not have content that is that difficult either, Mythic+ is challenging but also there it is WoW ... there is only so much they can do when it comes down to creating content ... (age of the game and etc)

Player numbers are of course important but let's be honest since WoW released it has not had any real big competition. The attempts of Swtor and etc were well ... sad. FF14 has a big IP carrying the game as well, the same goes for ESO + it's a different style of MMO in a weird sense.

In my personal opinion WoW and AoC have little in common and trying to compare them is like you would compare Archeage with WoW, it makes no sense.
I personally believe that games such as Gw2, ESO, maybe even BDO have a lot more to lose with AoC coming out in a few years then WoW. These games have not that much in common either but they have an audience that fits the "profile'' better. (large scale PvP, more build complexity, etc) Again this is my personal opinion.

Do not take this the wrong way but it sounds like AoC might not be your cup of tea. I would advise to follow the development and decide later on

I personally do not understand the need for add-ons, you clearly claim to have experience so, in my opinion, you should be skilled enough to have the insight and knowledge to have some kind of a headstart vs. a new player.

Tarnish

Hurf Derfman wrote: »

Tarnish wrote: »

wArchAngel wrote: »

I've said it earlier, i will repeat it again.
I dont mind you carebearing as much as you want, i dont mind a lot of instanced content, it can be as hard as you wish.
I DONT want those instances to drop BiS's(Best in Slots), or uniques, that will actually force people to go there, but will give an equal opportunity for free to everyone to get those BiS's and uniques. This kind of gear should be behind a competition wall, not some mob in a pvp-free separated area.

the hardest instanced raid in the game should drop the bis items. however i think they should be materials that should be smelted or refined by masters, then forged by masters into something. just my opinion.

Hey "Old School",
BiS items will be crafted not static drops.
Rember Thunder Fury?

You should try spending more time on the wiki and get educated before trying to indoctrinate everybody with your "correct think."

i think you aggressive anti WoW players need to chill out and realize a outsiders opinion is exactly what the game needs to succeed. hive mind only goes so far when your hive is only so big.

Dreoh

Tarnish wrote: »

Hurf Derfman wrote: »

Tarnish wrote: »

wArchAngel wrote: »

I've said it earlier, i will repeat it again.
I dont mind you carebearing as much as you want, i dont mind a lot of instanced content, it can be as hard as you wish.
I DONT want those instances to drop BiS's(Best in Slots), or uniques, that will actually force people to go there, but will give an equal opportunity for free to everyone to get those BiS's and uniques. This kind of gear should be behind a competition wall, not some mob in a pvp-free separated area.

the hardest instanced raid in the game should drop the bis items. however i think they should be materials that should be smelted or refined by masters, then forged by masters into something. just my opinion.

Hey "Old School",
BiS items will be crafted not static drops.
Rember Thunder Fury?

You should try spending more time on the wiki and get educated before trying to indoctrinate everybody with your "correct think."

i think you aggressive anti WoW players need to chill out and realize a outsiders opinion is exactly what the game needs to succeed. hive mind only goes so far when your hive is only so big.

I don't think anyone here disagrees that outside opinions are a good thing, that's why we're all here giving feedback right?

Everyone here seems to have a problem with how unbending and unreasonable your arguments are. You aren't considering other points of view and what merit they have.

Tarnish

halbarz wrote: »

Bit late to the discussion but I do want to point out that WoW's large player base is not due it being a good game because let's be honest it is flawed as hell.

WoW is popular because it caters to a lot of people, to have decent gear you do not have to be actually good at the game. The systems are extremely simplistic and the player base is large because it was the first MMO to really go big in the early/mid 2000. People play the game because it is for most people their first real MMO. it is familiar, it's a safe space you can say, and again it is not very in-depth. (system / feature-wise)
WoW does not have content that is that difficult either, Mythic+ is challenging but also there it is WoW ... there is only so much they can do when it comes down to creating content ... (age of the game and etc)

Player numbers are of course important but let's be honest since WoW released it has not had any real big competition. The attempts of Swtor and etc were well ... sad. FF14 has a big IP carrying the game as well, the same goes for ESO + it's a different style of MMO in a weird sense.

In my personal opinion WoW and AoC have little in common and trying to compare them is like you would compare Archeage with WoW, it makes no sense.
I personally believe that games such as Gw2, ESO, maybe even BDO have a lot more to lose with AoC coming out in a few years then WoW. These games have not that much in common either but they have an audience that fits the "profile'' better. (large scale PvP, a lot of build complexity, etc) Again this is my personal opinion.

Do not take this the wrong way but it sounds like AoC might not be your cup of tea. I would advise to follow the development and decide later on

I personally do not understand the need for add-ons, you clearly claim to have experience so, in my opinion, you should be skilled enough to have the insight and knowledge to have some kind of a headstart vs. a new player.

lets be honest. Its the most popular MMO because it is still the best place to Raid, PVP, and RP. There is a huge community of loyal WoW players from all sorts of different years. Not to mention classic brought back alot. People have to enjoy playing the game or it dies. plain and simple. I do not agree and i think we need objective minds if we are going to make AoC a game that will be relevant. attacking WoW players and WoW does not help AoC. examples from the best MMO out there is just what it is. examples.

Tarnish

Hurf Derfman wrote: »

Tarnish wrote: »

wArchAngel wrote: »

I've said it earlier, i will repeat it again.
I dont mind you carebearing as much as you want, i dont mind a lot of instanced content, it can be as hard as you wish.
I DONT want those instances to drop BiS's(Best in Slots), or uniques, that will actually force people to go there, but will give an equal opportunity for free to everyone to get those BiS's and uniques. This kind of gear should be behind a competition wall, not some mob in a pvp-free separated area.

the hardest instanced raid in the game should drop the bis items. however i think they should be materials that should be smelted or refined by masters, then forged by masters into something. just my opinion.

Hey "Old School",
BiS items will be crafted not static drops.
Rember Thunder Fury?

You should try spending more time on the wiki and get educated before trying to indoctrinate everybody with your "correct think."

lol you need a hug?

Samson1

I thought this guy said he was out....?

Tarnish

Samson wrote: »

I thought this guy said he was out....?

i said i would be keeping my eye out for updates and would pop in. got anything to add to the discussion?

Hurf Derfman

Tarnish wrote: »

Hurf Derfman wrote: »

Tarnish wrote: »

wArchAngel wrote: »

I've said it earlier, i will repeat it again.
I dont mind you carebearing as much as you want, i dont mind a lot of instanced content, it can be as hard as you wish.
I DONT want those instances to drop BiS's(Best in Slots), or uniques, that will actually force people to go there, but will give an equal opportunity for free to everyone to get those BiS's and uniques. This kind of gear should be behind a competition wall, not some mob in a pvp-free separated area.

the hardest instanced raid in the game should drop the bis items. however i think they should be materials that should be smelted or refined by masters, then forged by masters into something. just my opinion.

Hey "Old School",
BiS items will be crafted not static drops.
Rember Thunder Fury?

You should try spending more time on the wiki and get educated before trying to indoctrinate everybody with your "correct think."

i think you aggressive anti WoW players need to chill out and realize a outsiders opinion is exactly what the game needs to succeed. hive mind only goes so far when your hive is only so big.

I think your mainstream elitist carbon copy wow player mind set is played out. It has been for literally over a decade.

I get it, you're scared of meaningful pvp, and are worried you can't wag your epeen around out side of it.

Either that you're just too proud to admit you don't know how to get to the wiki.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/

halbarz

Tarnish wrote: »

halbarz wrote: »

Bit late to the discussion but I do want to point out that WoW's large player base is not due it being a good game because let's be honest it is flawed as hell.

WoW is popular because it caters to a lot of people, to have decent gear you do not have to be actually good at the game. The systems are extremely simplistic and the player base is large because it was the first MMO to really go big in the early/mid 2000. People play the game because it is for most people their first real MMO. it is familiar, it's a safe space you can say, and again it is not very in-depth. (system / feature-wise)
WoW does not have content that is that difficult either, Mythic+ is challenging but also there it is WoW ... there is only so much they can do when it comes down to creating content ... (age of the game and etc)

Player numbers are of course important but let's be honest since WoW released it has not had any real big competition. The attempts of Swtor and etc were well ... sad. FF14 has a big IP carrying the game as well, the same goes for ESO + it's a different style of MMO in a weird sense.

In my personal opinion WoW and AoC have little in common and trying to compare them is like you would compare Archeage with WoW, it makes no sense.
I personally believe that games such as Gw2, ESO, maybe even BDO have a lot more to lose with AoC coming out in a few years then WoW. These games have not that much in common either but they have an audience that fits the "profile'' better. (large scale PvP, a lot of build complexity, etc) Again this is my personal opinion.

Do not take this the wrong way but it sounds like AoC might not be your cup of tea. I would advise to follow the development and decide later on

I personally do not understand the need for add-ons, you clearly claim to have experience so, in my opinion, you should be skilled enough to have the insight and knowledge to have some kind of a headstart vs. a new player.

lets be honest. Its the most popular MMO because it is still the best place to Raid, PVP, and RP. There is a huge community of loyal WoW players from all sorts of different years. Not to mention classic brought back alot. People have to enjoy playing the game or it dies. plain and simple. I do not agree and i think we need objective minds if we are going to make AoC a game that will be relevant. attacking WoW players and WoW does not help AoC. examples from the best MMO out there is just what it is. examples.

First of all as a side note: WoW best place to PvP and RP made me laugh

This gives me the impression that you either do not really PvP a lot or have not played any kind of other MMO seriously for a few months/years.

Raiding wise WoW is not bad, it has a lot to offer both old and new content. The reason classic is popular is that people go back for .... nostalgia nothing else.

WoW had a big and popular IP, compared to other MMO's back then. It was the first MMO to actually feel and look good back then and it offered good content back then, the graphics aged well. The best MMO is an opinion that you have, not everyone will think my favorite MMO is the best. So I would stop using that 'argument' if I were you.

I have nothing against WoW at all, I am glad there is a MMO for people that enjoy the warcraft setting and etc. All I am trying to point out is that AoC is not WoW. I have the impression you feel like you are being attacked, which is certainly not the case.

Addons: are not a must and if this stops you from playing the game then that is your choice. If you add addons into a game you cannot remove them or it would be hell on the forums and etc. not having them might lead to illegal use but the vast majority of the community will not risk it and just enjoy the game and still clear all the content

Dygz

lmfao
"Take the pros we have learned from other games and make an ORIGINAL game."
That is an oxymoron.

Triple

I give this one a 4 out of 10 troll thread. Mainly cause I just haven't seen this many on AoC forums and there seems to be a few people going for the bait , but I do kind of miss troll posts. Weird,. .right?

Leroher

@Tarnish

The thing is that you are not saying "some things I want in the game" you said "why I won't play this game" (in a game in prealpha), that's the first thing you should change.

Second, instead of going to the megathread about DPS meter (for example), you say that's a problem of the game and you are not accepting arguments deffending that. This is multiboxing and calling some dev decisions (dpsmeter, addons, etc) "problems" or "flaws", they got their reasons, go check those threads.

Third, instead of making a quick and summarized post, you make it long and boring to read, I suggest you to make it shorter next time.

P.D.: I will say again that stuff about changing "problem" to "I would like it to be this way" when talking about dev decisions and not real problems, it will make the rest of the people more accessible and "less angry" while reading your post.

Dukem96

I'm sure it's been said but its not even in A1 dude.

I like that there won't be addons, it will force people to play the game and just enjoy it instead of this toxic elitist bs. You even see it on basic games like classic WoW where its all about the numbers when they have a 1-2 button rotation and spend hours getting world buffs. Just look forward to enjoying a game instead of min maxxing. if you see someone standing in the fire then you know they're either new or oblivious. You will judge people based on different things.

bigepeen

Tarnish wrote: »

bigepeen wrote: »

Tarnish wrote: »

CaptnChuck wrote: »

Challenging PvE content is indeed a big question mark when it comes to AoC.

I also agree with you on your point about WoW. A lot of people say that this game isn't a WoW 2.0, but what they don't realize is that WoW has the largest MMO player-base out of all other MMORPGs. So if you want to be successful, you have to be able to attract its player-base as well. That's the reason why FF14 became so successful. The challenging PvE content in FF14, attracted a ton of players from WoW.

So I hope that Steven understands this. Sacrificing a bit of social activity, for challenging PvE content, isn't really a bad trade-off in my books.

I agree, I think in the long run it will benefit the community.

I don't agree, I think it will harm the community. It will create a large portion of players sequestered off in basically an instanced mini-game, making the world feel less populated and lively. Additionally, these players will start whining about having to do any PvP and either start asking for non-PvP servers or making every dungeon instanced.

In order to have a healthy, dynamic server, AoC needs players who want to join in on the PvP systems, and join in on sending caravans, joining castle sieges, joining node wars, etc..

i dont see how that would happen. a meter just lets us see how we are doing. lets us improve and experience the content at a more educated level. so we can down more difficult content. this would not take away from any other content. it is all still relevant to the world and the same guilds and teams would be doing that content aswell. I did not just raid i also ranked in PVP.

I never argued that dps meters hurt the community. I'm not even necessarily against dps meters. However, I am against a higher percentage of instanced PvE content that you want so much. This will hurt the community, because a lot of people who are into that stuff are the type to have the attitude of "I will not PvP under any conditions". That's fine in games like WoW, but that's not what this game is about. This happens in so many games, that the examples are too many to list.

Once games start catering to this PvE content crowd, a vocal portion start demanding ways to avoid PvP entirely. Just one example of this happening recently is New World. This used to be an open world PvP game, but guess what? A bunch of people like you complained and so they changed it into a flagged PvP game where players can go through the game without ever having to experience the risk of PvP. Now the player-base is fractured as a result of trying to appease both the carebears and PvPers, and I guarantee you that this game is going to die in about 6 months after launch, and the entire experience will be watered-down.

AoC wants a return of MMOs to more meaningful, dynamic content. Steven himself said he wants more risk/reward and not the participation trophies that everyone gets in most other MMOs these days from fighting instanced, static PvE content. You'll have to PvE with the risk of unknown PvP variables thrown in the mix. And if you succeed, it'll feel much more memorable than if you were watching a DPS meter fighting a static boss for the thousandth time that you already know all the moves for. I think you're missing this point about AoC, it's not meant to be a safe space for you to sequestor yourself into PvE static content. It's meant to keep everyone interacting with each other in a busy open world with lots of risk. This is really not your type of game. FFIV, WoW, or hundreds of other games cater to players like yourself.

Dreoh

How about we argue for engaging and skillful challenges and fights instead of arguing for tank and spanks where achieving a bare minimum dps is make or break for victory where a dps meter is wanted?

bloodprophet

Looking back through the wiki and watching the videos this seems promising.
22:24

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJbyxRdB6dE&feature=youtu.be&t=22m24s

Inixia

bloodprophet wrote: »

Looking back through the wiki and watching the videos this seems promising.

Thanks for linking this!
I like the idea of variable boss moods and mechanics to keep things fresh.

I don't like as much the idea of variable boss difficulty unless its clearly flagged because I think killing a boss should mean something objectively recognizable. Otherwise its kind of like, 'so what, you killed the red dragon, hasn't everyone?'oh but this instance of it was especially hard'. Doesn't have the same impact you know?
That said, I'm just putting that out there, I'm still missing a lot of details on how it will work that may change my mind, and I don't expect the development team to change that aspect at this point, and sometimes its good when they listen to their own instincts instead of the forums. I'm still excited for the game. But what can I say, my own personal stance is that I like raid bosses to have clear difficulties so that getting to see and beat them acts as a reward for objective raid progression.

Dygz

bigepeen wrote: »

I never argued that dps meters hurt the community. I'm not even necessarily against dps meters. However, I am against a higher percentage of instanced PvE content that you want so much. This will hurt the community, because a lot of people who are into that stuff are the type to have the attitude of "I will not PvP under any conditions". That's fine in games like WoW, but that's not what this game is about. This happens in so many games, that the examples are too many to list.

Ashes is heavily focused on objective-based PvP - which can really feel like PvE since it's not necessarily direct, person v person combat.
Highly unlikely that there will be a higher percentage of instanced PvE content. Good chance that PvE players who actually play the game won't be asking for it, but...
We have to play to know how it will actually feel.

choppie01

Kneczhevo wrote: »

What a well written and passionate post. ☺️ Unfortunately, I see it more as a troll needing a therapy session.

I have no idea what topics you brought up, I don't chase names. I chase comments.

What I gathered (from this thread), you are a PVEer? And you're not happy about your responses to your suggestions? I'm not rereading your other thread.

We all want a great game, period. Some have great ideas, some don't. If your idea is not getting into people's heads, you are doing something wrong or it's a dumb idea. Accept it and move on. Try a new approach, don't cry to the forums.

You come to a PvP community, and expect carebear treatment? Lmao. Get real.

I'm a carebear with fangs and claws. Grow a pair.

Edit: Intrepid/Steven has already stated; they are not making the next WoW killer. So, your first sentence is is invalid.

i mean the dude didnt ask( or he didnt seem to want that , by me ) for carebear treatment he is just giving feedback on the PvE things and he hopes for the devs to focus more on the PvE too , thats ok as a feedback.

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