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The importance of getting lost
CROW3
Member
I’ve spent enough time wandering around the wild spaces of this world to fill a book or two. There is something wholly unique about being out there, away from ‘civilization’, being vulnerable, yet determined.
Being lost is a novelty now, and it would be nice to have that feeling in AoC. Instead of giving me omniscient access to a world map, give me the ability to make maps and use them. Let me iterate them. Make notes. Make mistakes. Get lost. Let there be a cost to exploration, risk, and consequences.
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I agree, and those players are free to be comfortable behind their walls.
2. If there were some perk to exploration like say general flight or teleportation then it would have some meaning otherwise what is the reward to taking this immensely time consuming risk?
3. This is not about leaving comfort zone. Let me paint a scenario:
A: There is a world boss spawning near *insert location name*.
B: Ah, I dont know where that is...
As there is no world map, your friend cannot even help you unless you have explored some common area to use as reference.
4. I wonder how often you guyz use google maps for travelling?
Edit: I am not trying to be negative, but I doubt living in stone age would be interesting after a day or 2 when you cant find the NPC to whom you have to submit the quest. It's just impractical.
Ask your friend to tell you about some place like a restaurant or a building or anything about which you dont know anything. Dont ask anyone where that place is. Find that place without any help. Make notes. Make mistakes. Get lost. See if you like the experience.
The idea is to simulate being "away from civilization".
Wouldn't you have exactly the same thing in most MMOs if you just remove the player to be shown on the world map?
If you for example look at games like day z you may have a map of the area but still have to realize your position on the map yourself.
In most MMOs you have to explore anyway since there is fog of war, the game is just updating it automatically rather than having you do it manually.
I agree though that an option to make notes on the map would be nice.
I think after a while some players get tired of repetitive combat so they'll need other distractions and ways to get away from the hustle and bustle of metros and society in general. That's where exploration comes in. It's another game system for a player to fall into.
I know I reference SWG alot, but it did do a lot of things right. Their open world was pretty massive and there was definitely a sense of getting lost. I'm hoping AoC will have some of that.
I'm still hoping for that Bilbo moment where I'm out exploring and come across a cave in the mountains, and find that quest giver that no one has found prior that starts me on some unique quest, to kill 4 rats
Also, I do worry that 480 might be too small.
I think it's a crucial element of any sandbox game.
All good, Sylvanar - I didn’t read your thoughts as negative. This point cracked me up though since Google maps didn’t exist for most of my life, and labeling that as ‘the stone age’ just made me smile.
I‘d suggest that the starting information available in AoC shouldn’t necessarily mirror the instant access to information available in real-life (which took generations). I learned land and sea navigation on paper maps/charts over years of practice and application. Yes, Google maps is a convenient tool. But it’s just A tool, not the only tool.
That said, I like the idea of creating a system where player made maps can become widespread, the better the cartographer, the more detailed and accurate the map. The knowledge of the world and it’s hidden places can evolve over time.
I think it would be original if we didn’t begin as if that evolution has already concluded.
It looks like what you are looking for is already being implemented.
Maybe as a profession then?
Lets say the default map has the name of locations and stuff but apart from that barely any information. This way people who do not want to leave their comfort zone can still navigate from location A to location B, but not much else.
The cartographer can make notes on the map, highlight important routes, NPCs and stuff. I dont know much about this but whatever is possible. This way each cartographers will have a unique map. Maybe they can then sell their maps and earn in game currency from it. Map becomes more and more expensive with more information added to it.
@CROW3 maybe you can expand on this as I don't have any knowledge regarding cartography.
Having that on a map the size of Verra, makes this not sound so fun to me at all. At least give me some kind of map, to orientate myself.
Some people might really like the feeling of being lost, but most players might be turned down and stop playing because they can't find what they are looking for.
Yeah... that’s where my imagination went too. 🙂
If I were going to sketch out an approach I’d start by asking some basic scoping questions:
- What are the core functions of a player’s world map? You could further break this down to must have, should have, nice to have.
- Which of these capabilities should a player have by default, and which should be produced by a cartographer?
- Where are the practical boundaries for a set of players? What would players enjoy, tolerate, or find frustrating?
- What tools would a cartographer use and augment (e.g. compass, limner’s box, sextant, etc)?
- What materials would a cartographer use (e.g. paper, ink, salt, etc)
- What is the end result and how would that be acquired and consumed by a player?
- What does the skill look like in game (i.e. a channeled spell, a mini-game, etc)?
- Can the cartographer customize their creation with notes, icons, etc?
- Are there other variables that should impact quality and accuracy (e.g. time of day, familiarity, reputation w/local box factions, elevation, etc)?
- What would this look like at scale? I.e. with 10/1,000/10,000 cartographers...
- Are there practical benefits to having a cartographer in your party that could lead to new discoveries in an area or dungeon (similar to rogue finding a secret passage)?
- Are there special benefits / quests for cartographers that advance a node, or become available when a node advances?
- Do certain races create better types of maps than others (e.g. maybe elves have a better sense of outdoor areas while dwarves have a better sense of dungeons)?
- Can a disgruntled cartographer turn the tide of a node siege? I.e. here’s the back door... have fun!
Just some of the questions to help guide the way, then I would begin iterating from there until there was something worth shaking a stick at.
I wholeheartedly agree on the importance of getting lost.
1. 480 sq km isn't as large as it may sound.
2. I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. I'd say the ability to fly has meaning in and of itself?
3. I guess that's down to the individual, I myself find it very easy to maintain location awareness in gaming and real life. I'm aware some people find that difficult. No matter what, there's nothing stopping people from making 3rd party maps and sending them to their guild members in Teamspeak or Discord.
4. Rarely.
https://knightsofember.com/forums/members/winner909098.54
Ah yes, the younger generations strike again.
I hope you unlock 5 km² at a time when you discover a new location, so the entire map would be about 100 different locations to be discovered, not too much but not too easy, I wouldn't mind making it harder though. I would also like to have a compass and a way to know my current coordinate on the map.
Apart from that, I hope the rest will be an adventure.
I liked the idea that players needed to actually buy maps from the vendors of a certain city/zone in order to get a map layout of the zone. Even better, that maps didn't have everything on them, it was just a barebones layout of like what you'd see someone draw of an area they ventured into. You had to place markers down on hidden areas, possible mob spawns, encampment, etc. Made the map feel more personal and made you want to look through every nook and cranny of that area to make sure you didn't miss any secrets.
I just don't know how AoC would do their map system, but I can see it being like all the newer MMOs today: Wander around and the map will fill out itself. That's not a bad thing though, but I agree on allowing the players to place markers down and edit the map with points of interest ourselves. I mean, we really shouldn't even have maps of this land to use, since it's been long gone and forgotten till now; according to lore, right?