Mega Guilds

I have been watching the dev videos and I was wondering what precautions are going to be implemented to avoid mega guilds taking and controlling the entire PvP aspect of the game. This was a large issue early on in ESO and why a 3 faction system did not take off. The Mega Guild goes in and the other guilds do not have the mere numbers to overtake it. The Mega Guild controls the map and then there is no way to over take them due to sheer numbers. Both sides then get bored and the game's PvP dies because there is nothing to do to overtake the guild and the mega guild gets bored because they have no competition.

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Bricktop

That's the nature of an open world game. If a mega guild is controlling the server there should still be 1000s of players who aren't in the guild. Alliances will begin to form and war declarations will be sent when the players of the server get tired of 1 alliance being in control and the server will police itself in that regard.

Mega alliances always get bored of dominating if they don't start being challenged and fall apart after some time. Usually breaking apart into several smaller guilds composed of the various cliques that tend to form in a zerg guild and going to war with one another.

winner909098

At max, a guild has 200 people. the might control one metropolis, but not everything

maouw

What @Bricktop describes makes so much sense.

Let the oligarchy live while it lasts - eventually it will implode and create space for new rule (hopefully that means a bunch of nodes shift, and then the server rolls into something new!)

Bricktop

winner909098 wrote: »

At max, a guild has 200 people. the might control one metropolis, but not everything

According to The wiki the max guild size will be 300 people, with a total of 4 possible guilds per alliance.

Internal strife is bound to pop up in a video game relationship between 1200 people.

winner909098

Bricktop wrote: »

winner909098 wrote: »

At max, a guild has 200 people. the might control one metropolis, but not everything

According to The wiki the max guild size will be 300 people, with a total of 4 possible guilds per alliance.

Internal strife is bound to pop up in a video game relationship between 1200 people.

sorry, I got confused

Atiqa

You mean a guild controlling the whole world or something? Not really sure I follow how that would work.

It's not going to be just guilds fighting each other, because of the node system. You will be fighting for your node.

A mega guild would be fighting against itself if it spread out all over, so I don't see why they would do that (and that would negate your problem anyways).

Edit: But, mostly I think you're using an example from ESO that doesn't apply in AoC. Never played ESO, but it sounds like very different. One mega guild controlling the "map", doesn't sound like anything I can relate to AoC. A guild could be "kings" of a node, but they can't control other nodes, and everyone of a node can come together and attack/defend, not just guilds.

Bricktop

maouw wrote: »

What @Bricktop describes makes so much sense.

Let the oligarchy live while it lasts - eventually it will implode and create space for new rule (hopefully that means a bunch of nodes shift, and then the server rolls into something new!)

@maouw

I think thats exactly how ashes will play it so long as they maintain the open world nature of the game. I hate to use this so much but it really will be like a "shifting of the sands". Rivalries will be born through conflict and betrayal. Massive guilds will sweep through the server and then fall apart under the pressure of constant warfare with smaller guilds popping out of the ashes. Huge alliances will rise and dominate just to fall apart overnight through internal fighting. Nodes will be built up and maintained for months possibly years only to be brought to ruin, and have the entire area start anew. Trading guilds will align themselves with war-focused guilds to form a partnership.

This is how your server will have a story. When it's all said and done, player interactions and how they shape the world will be the most interesting content in Ashes. This is what you will remember 15 years after you stop playing the game. The story that was forged through conflict and diplomacy all through other players.

Xyphien

So, the amount of people are in fact 300 per guild. But in theory you can have 5 guilds in an alliance. So, technically a guild can have 5 other guilds they've developed with 300 people in them, and create a 1500 alliance/guild. So the guild only having 300 isn't really a fix for anything on the scheme of things.

Bricktop

Xyphien wrote: »

So, the amount of people are in fact 300 per guild. But in theory you can have 5 guilds in an alliance. So, technically a guild can have 5 other guilds they've developed with 300 people in them, and create a 1500 alliance/guild. So the guild only having 300 isn't really a fix for anything on the scheme of things.

@Xyphien Hey, just wanna make a small correction. If you look here it says there will be 4 guilds max per alliance.

PlagueMonk

One thing not mentioned is, guild numbers are not necessarily the best option. When you choose the population guild path, you will also be missing out on perk paths that smaller guilds will have access to. We don't know what those are yet but maybe having a smaller, 100 person guild can be better.

Ventharien

Atiqa wrote: »

You mean a guild controlling the whole world or something? Not really sure I follow how that would work.

It's not going to be just guilds fighting each other, because of the node system. You will be fighting for your node.

A mega guild would be fighting against itself if it spread out all over, so I don't see why they would do that (and that would negate your problem anyways).

Edit: But, mostly I think you're using an example from ESO that doesn't apply in AoC. Never played ESO, but it sounds like very different. One mega guild controlling the "map", doesn't sound like anything I can relate to AoC. A guild could be "kings" of a node, but they can't control other nodes, and everyone of a node can come together and attack/defend, not just guilds.

The problem here Mega Guilds in relation to an open world game blow anything in eso out of the water. When they aren't restricted to a certain zone, and can attack players anywhere, having a pre formed group of hundreds come over, leaves a bad taste in most people mouths, and since they organize outside of the game in existing communities, systems like alliances mean little to them (They just make allied alliances essentially) It's entirely possible one of these communities could become the dominant force on a server, to such a degree that no combined force could beat them.

But I don't think this will be how it plays out often. I see enough mechanics to lower the efficiency of groups like this taking hold, and without full loot drop mechanics there isn't a way to remove an enemy completely from the fight, so people you beat yesterday could be back today at full strength or even stronger. Plus when it does occur, as others have already noted, eventually they have no more valid fights, get bored and their alliance falls apart, or their server dies unfortunately.

CROW3

Well, a creative approach to countering a Mega-guild hold on a set of nodes would be to establish a loosely organized cold insurgency to break the guild alliance apart from the inside out using disinformation, exploiting internal personal conflict, etc.

That is unless the alliance can prove profitable for more opportunistic players.

Khronus

I will end up getting my guild to whatever population cap it will be. A ton of time will go into weeding people out who don't fit the community mold I am building. For alliances, Council will only ever use an alliance defensively and never for offense. I don't plan on taking 1200 people to a fight but 1200 to defend our 1's and 0's....yeah sure why not lol.

Kreed

Interesting, so a guild that has over 1000 players can make alt guilds and be their own alliance..

Amaranth68

Also from what i understand players in nodes of influence will get a call to sedge. it's really gonna depend in a way on diversity. Who can build what what's available...etc

Amaranth68

If you have a guild of high end players that didn't build then the siege engines will fell it

Ventharien

Kreed wrote: »

Interesting, so a guild that has over 1000 players can make alt guilds and be their own alliance..

Well if they all had one alt, they would have to make a separate alliance at that point. So their alts wouldn't be on the same 'team' technically.

Noaani

KHRONUS wrote: »

I will end up getting my guild to whatever population cap it will be. A ton of time will go into weeding people out who don't fit the community mold I am building. For alliances, Council will only ever use an alliance defensively and never for offense. I don't plan on taking 1200 people to a fight but 1200 to defend our 1's and 0's....yeah sure why not lol.

I personally don't see many successful guilds being over 100 players, in all honesty.

In order for a guild to be rtuely successful - especially if we are talking long term - the guild needs a good number of actual good players. These players are good beucase they do what they need to do in order to be as individually good at the game as possible - and one of the things that they will need to do to be as individually good at the game as possible is they need to be in a smaller guild.

I can see smaller guilds running alliances of them plus 3 larger guilds of players that don't have this same drive to be as good as they can, but players in guilds like that come and go, and so the power of such alliances will come and go.

A guild of ~80 players that are all playing the game to be as good as they can be though? that is the guild to be wary of.

maouw

Noaani wrote: »

KHRONUS wrote: »

I will end up getting my guild to whatever population cap it will be. A ton of time will go into weeding people out who don't fit the community mold I am building. For alliances, Council will only ever use an alliance defensively and never for offense. I don't plan on taking 1200 people to a fight but 1200 to defend our 1's and 0's....yeah sure why not lol.

I personally don't see many successful guilds being over 100 players, in all honesty.

In order for a guild to be rtuely successful - especially if we are talking long term - the guild needs a good number of actual good players. These players are good beucase they do what they need to do in order to be as individually good at the game as possible - and one of the things that they will need to do to be as individually good at the game as possible is they need to be in a smaller guild.

I can see smaller guilds running alliances of them plus 3 larger guilds of players that don't have this same drive to be as good as they can, but players in guilds like that come and go, and so the power of such alliances will come and go.

A guild of ~80 players that are all playing the game to be as good as they can be though? that is the guild to be wary of.

This is my experience of guild alliances too.

1 highly competitive guild allies with a bunch of semi-competitive ones

I don't imagine the top 1% of players dominating all servers... but then irl this happens... either way I'm heaps excited to see how it plays out. Whether the 1% rules everyone or not I'm gonna be all "I WAS HERE".

apmax

Its hard enough to organize one big guild, I don't imagine inter-guild politics on the scale of over a thousand people are going to lead to very long lasting alliances, especially given the growing economic potential of betrayal as a node or castle matures.

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