Cryptocurrency?

With how in depth this game is turning out to be, are developers thinking about adding a way of earning some sort of crypto token for playing the game? I read a past post that someone put out a while back about blockchain in AOC, but I;m not sure if he and I meant the same thing. There are a lot of advancements going on with etherium that could be useful, from personal experience I know I will be spending a very long time infront of the screen playing my favorite MMO. If I could get paid for doing so, well, I might make it my job to play.

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Kokeshen

CaptnChuck wrote: »

Kokeshen wrote: »

We're talking about swapping the entire economy of a game while its live. An economy is a foundational element, not something you stack on top of your infrastructure like a jenga piece. I'm no developer but If in-game economies are anything like real world economics then once an economy is being lived in its sorta like Pandora's box. Extremely hard to real back in and start again without getting a whole lotta people mad.

Exactly. So why do you want to bring in an unstable thing like cryptocurrency into the mix?

The asset in my hypothetical situation wasn't the unstable part. It was how it could be implemented that could lead to instability.

The asset it's self actually could be fairly stable. When done correctly, inflation should be controlled and baked into the currency leading to stability over the long haul. It can get complicated but lets just say not all Crypto is created equal.

CaptnChuck

Kokeshen wrote: »

CaptnChuck wrote: »

Kokeshen wrote: »

We're talking about swapping the entire economy of a game while its live. An economy is a foundational element, not something you stack on top of your infrastructure like a jenga piece. I'm no developer but If in-game economies are anything like real world economics then once an economy is being lived in its sorta like Pandora's box. Extremely hard to real back in and start again without getting a whole lotta people mad.

Exactly. So why do you want to bring in an unstable thing like cryptocurrency into the mix?

The asset in my hypothetical situation wasn't the unstable part. It was how it could be implemented that could lead to instability.

The asset it's self actually could be fairly stable. When done correctly, inflation should be controlled and baked into the currency leading to stability over the long haul. It can get complicated but lets just say not all Crypto is created equal.

Man Intrepid already has a lot of things to get right when it comes to Ashes. Why add crypto on top of that?

Only a small population uses/interacts with crypto on a regular basis. I do not think that that number is going to change by much in the next 3 or so years. So why not focus on more important topics?

Kokeshen

CaptnChuck wrote: »

Kokeshen wrote: »

CaptnChuck wrote: »

Kokeshen wrote: »

We're talking about swapping the entire economy of a game while its live. An economy is a foundational element, not something you stack on top of your infrastructure like a jenga piece. I'm no developer but If in-game economies are anything like real world economics then once an economy is being lived in its sorta like Pandora's box. Extremely hard to real back in and start again without getting a whole lotta people mad.

Exactly. So why do you want to bring in an unstable thing like cryptocurrency into the mix?

The asset in my hypothetical situation wasn't the unstable part. It was how it could be implemented that could lead to instability.

The asset it's self actually could be fairly stable. When done correctly, inflation should be controlled and baked into the currency leading to stability over the long haul. It can get complicated but lets just say not all Crypto is created equal.

Man Intrepid already has a lot of things to get right when it comes to Ashes. Why add crypto on top of that?

Only a small population uses/interacts with crypto on a regular basis. I do not think that that number is going to change by much in the next 3 or so years. So why not focus on more important topics?

Uhmm maybe because the world NEEDS something like this? Refer back to my first Comment on this thread if you require a refresher.

This is not something to be taken lightly, if done correctly this would Change not only the gaming industry but the world and arguably for the better:

No Crypto economy = Just another MMO (Might be a WoW killer but still just a game)

With Crypto economy = Historic, Trend setting, and has the potential to help the impoverished around the world. Ohh and it can still be a fun game for those who wish to treat it as such.

Idk about you but this seems like a pretty important topic.

Noaani

Kokeshen wrote: »

With Crypto economy = Historic, Trend setting, and has the potential to help the impoverished around the world. Ohh and it can still be a fun game for those who wish to treat it as such.

These two things are mutually exclusive.

Either a piece of software is a thing people use to make money, or it is a thing peopel use for fun. There is no possible way to have a game that generates actual money for people and also have it be something that peopel can just do for fun.

If crypto is added to a game (or incorperated to it at the start), then very few people would look at that game as anything other than a way to make money. It will not be a source of enjoyment. Rather, it would be something that people are put in to warehouses to farm money out of.

Even if a few people did want to play the game for fun, people playing to make money would ensure that they couldn't. These people would only group up with people from the same farming warehouse, and content would have to be balanced in order to ensure people that make money are able to continue to do so (under pain of law suit).

Also, since a lot of content in Ashes is contested, there is no way people playing the game for fun would be able to compete with people playing the game for money - especially if those people playing for money are only allocated 4 hours of sleep a day.

I can see there being a possibility of crypto of some form being a small aspect of the future (it is never going t oreplace fiat - no matter how much a few thousand people may want it to). However, that crypto will need to be earned/generated by it's own activity, rather than shoehorned in to another activity. No matter what happens with it, this one fact will need to remain true - if not for the sake of that specific coin, for the sake of that specific activity.

Zairos

...ummm no i don't even want crypto currencies in this game. i do want tho to be able to hook up a vr headset to mt laptop tho! lol but no on the digital mining of bitcoins.

Kreed

Bad idea, my vote is no to crypto currencies.

Jindran

Kokeshen wrote: »

No Crypto economy = Just another MMO (Might be a WoW killer but still just a game)

With Crypto economy = Historic, Trend setting, and has the potential to help the impoverished around the world. Ohh and it can still be a fun game for those who wish to treat it as such.

Idk about you but this seems like a pretty important topic.

But we want "just" a game, nothing more than "just" a well-made game with right mechanics from people that really love mmos, so we can enjoy it just like in the old days with our friends.

Big no to everything that would make game a job or something similar. I am playing a game because i want to not because i must.

Vyraka

No to cryptocurrency for many reasons. I feel like it would destroy the game.

Takyn

As someone who has been into Cryptocurrency and Blockchain tech for years, has worked on a commercial, production-grade Blockchain and worked on a (released on Steam and failed due to 0 interest) online game based on said Blockchain: Please no!

It's unnecessary, the concept of real ownership and transferability of in-game assets is useless and unimportant to almost all players, cashing in/out can be done with existing, non-crypto tech much easier if wanted, and it is a lot of extra work.

Radiglaz

Bruh..

Kokeshen

Noaani wrote: »

Kokeshen wrote: »

With Crypto economy = Historic, Trend setting, and has the potential to help the impoverished around the world. Ohh and it can still be a fun game for those who wish to treat it as such.

These two things are mutually exclusive.

Either a piece of software is a thing people use to make money, or it is a thing peopel use for fun. There is no possible way to have a game that generates actual money for people and also have it be something that peopel can just do for fun.

.

This is pure DOGMA! There is 100% a way to have both in a game. Look at runescape. There is still plenty of people who play it for fun but still there is a HUGE black market. So much so that people from Venezuela play it so they can buy bread after their currency went into Hyperinflation. B4 you trash on runescape tho, I must say that the problems that plague it, because of the gold farms and what not, could have been eliminated for the most part if the black market dealings were incorporated into the game officially.

Think of it like the War on Drugs, when it's illegal the more it continues and the worst it gets for everyone involved. But when you look at places like Portugal that pretty much conquered Drugs by decriminalizing/ regulating it along with providing rehab facilities, BAM, you have a system that works better than it did before. Same thing here.

What I'm seeing in this community is that most people view RMT as a negative because of the bad rep it's gotten from invading other MMOS. The thing is that these games WERE NOT BUILT to facilitate RMT and that's why in most cases it ruined player's experiences.

Noaani wrote: »

Kokeshen wrote: »

With Crypto economy = Historic, Trend setting, and has the potential to help the impoverished around the world. Ohh and it can still be a fun game for those who wish to treat it as such.

If crypto is added to a game (or incorperated to it at the start), then very few people would look at that game as anything other than a way to make money. It will not be a source of enjoyment. Rather, it would be something that people are put in to warehouses to farm money out of.

People are put into warehouse farms for popular MMOs already! And we're talking about the games that discourage RMT! So just because a game doesn't facilitate RMT doesn't mean it will stop this from happening.

Also it can still be a form of enjoyment for those who want to play it as such. The way other people play the game doesn't have to affect you. In fact RMT will affect you negatively only when it's not incorporated into the game. This is because when RMT floods into a game, what they're doing is an exploit. RMT can't be an exploit if its built into the game.

Noaani wrote: »

Kokeshen wrote: »

With Crypto economy = Historic, Trend setting, and has the potential to help the impoverished around the world. Ohh and it can still be a fun game for those who wish to treat it as such.

Even if a few people did want to play the game for fun, people playing to make money would ensure that they couldn't. These people would only group up with people from the same farming warehouse, and content would have to be balanced in order to ensure people that make money are able to continue to do so (under pain of law suit).

First, whats stopping people from doing this once a Black Market is established for this game or any game for that matter?

The same problem would still arise. I will not lie that there are still problems in need of solutions going down this path. I actually have a possible solution for this but it requires RMT to be incorporated into the game. And that's just my solution, there can be others utilizing RMT as a tool.

Whereas on the other hand there is only 1 solution that we know doesn't work. And That's playing Wack a mole with the ban hammer.

Noaani wrote: »

Kokeshen wrote: »

With Crypto economy = Historic, Trend setting, and has the potential to help the impoverished around the world. Ohh and it can still be a fun game for those who wish to treat it as such.

Also, since a lot of content in Ashes is contested, there is no way people playing the game for fun would be able to compete with people playing the game for money - especially if those people playing for money are only allocated 4 hours of sleep a day.

So how do casual gamers in the MMO space compete with the hardcore gamers with tons of time to kill today? it's the same concept. People with too much in game time ruining it for the casuals.

Ironically this is the very reason RMT exists in the first place! MMO's take up too much time from people that want to play the game but don't have enough time to grind for every single thing.

The solution to this problem is actually RMT. You could use any popular MMO as a Case Study for this. They all have seen a Black Market created around them. It's a symbiotic relationship or at least it SHOULD be.

And the people playing for money would basically be able to work as much or as little as they want. So I don't understand why in your eyes these people only have 4 hours of sleep a day lol

Noaani

Kokeshen wrote: »

HUGE black market.

Black markets are a different thing, and can not be compared to an actual, overt market.

People are put into warehouse farms for popular MMOs already! And we're talking about the games that discourage RMT! So just because a game doesn't facilitate RMT doesn't mean it will stop this from happening.

No it doesn't, but you should know, you are coming across sounding like you are essentially pro-slavery here.

You can't stop people from forcing others to do this kind of thing, but you sure as hell can actively not encourage it to happen.

Not encouraging it to happen means not implementing crypto in to places it doesn't belong.

Now, if you want to be pro-slavery/pro-sweatshop, just come out and say that. I'm sure we'll all judge you for it.

If you are not that way inclined, then you will be able to easily see how adding crypto to any actual game is a good thing - as while it won't eliminate people from ending up in that kind of situation, it sure as hell will prevent more people from ending up there on account of Ashes.

Basically, adding crypto to a game = more people in bad situations.

Kokeshen

Noaani wrote: »

Kokeshen wrote: »

HUGE black market.

Black markets are a different thing, and can not be compared to an actual, overt market.

People are put into warehouse farms for popular MMOs already! And we're talking about the games that discourage RMT! So just because a game doesn't facilitate RMT doesn't mean it will stop this from happening.

No it doesn't, but you should know, you are coming across sounding like you are essentially pro-slavery here.

You can't stop people from forcing others to do this kind of thing, but you sure as hell can actively not encourage it to happen.

Not encouraging it to happen means not implementing crypto in to places it doesn't belong.

Now, if you want to be pro-slavery/pro-sweatshop, just come out and say that. I'm sure we'll all judge you for it.

If you are not that way inclined, then you will be able to easily see how adding crypto to any actual game is a good thing - as while it won't eliminate people from ending up in that kind of situation, it sure as hell will prevent more people from ending up there on account of Ashes.

Pro Slavery? really?

You've let you're own ego cloud you're ability to see reason on this one. Now you turn to personal attacks and ludicrous far reaching conclusions just because you can't prove me wrong? Pathetic.

Just to be clear for those of you who Drank the No Crypto Cool-aid, I certainly am NOT for Slavery or sweatshops. Just because I (or anyone else for that matter) believe adding Crypto to an MMO has more benefits FOR THE GAME than it has downsides does not mean your pro-slavery or exploiting people.

That's like saying "You must be a Communist" if you bought an iPhone that was manufactured in China, or that you're a "Gun-towtting RedNeck" for believing in the sanctity of the 2nd amendment. Just complete non-sense!

Noaani wrote: »

Kokeshen wrote: »

HUGE black market.

Basically, adding crypto to a game = more people in bad situations.

I have already detailed how much Crypto MMO's could help the world and the people in it. This flagrant loose jab at my most Humane point on the subject is not fooling me or anyone else with half a brain-cell. Nice try tho.

I can see now you're just against this for no other reason but an irrational fear of what you don't understand. If you have actual facts to the contrary please present them. If not I think I'll rest my case and let the facts speak for them self.

carnage0

Elgondamo wrote: »

With how in depth this game is turning out to be, are developers thinking about adding a way of earning some sort of crypto token for playing the game? I read a past post that someone put out a while back about blockchain in AOC, but I;m not sure if he and I meant the same thing. There are a lot of advancements going on with etherium that could be useful, from personal experience I know I will be spending a very long time infront of the screen playing my favorite MMO. If I could get paid for doing so, well, I might make it my job to play.

That sounds like RMT just WAITING to happen...

Quintus

There is already a very popular game where such a system does exist albeit not on a blockchain. It's called Second Life and it's been around forever. My friend makes a good living modeling and texturing clothing (real-world skills) and selling it to players in her in-game shop. She earns Linden Dollars and trades them for USD. She does quite well and she worked very hard to get where she is.

The dream of earning a living doing something you love is a real one and OP should not be ridiculed for wanting to achieve this in OP's own way. There may be a game where this is right for, I just don't think it's this one. Even if it was just selling cosmetics. I don't personally like Second Life and I'm already concerned about the potential proliferation of cosmetics in AoC. Introducing any kind of opportunity to trade in-game currency for fiat, I feel, would go against the very core nature of what AoC is trying to become.

Noaani

Quintus wrote: »

The dream of earning a living doing something you love is a real one and OP should not be ridiculed for wanting to achieve this in OP's own way.

The ridicule, as you put it, is not because the idea of making a living out of a game is completely stupid.

The ridicule is because the proposed method is devoid of any skill, product or added value to the game.

If the suggestion was one of making money from a system that Intrepid could set up where players create content of some form (models, textures, or even dungeons and such), submit it to Intrepid for approval and then put it up for sale for players to buy, that would have some merit.

What is being suggested though, it has no merit. It is literally asking for people to be paid in an as yet unknown crypto coin for simply playing the game - a scheme that would absolutely result in people being forced in to actual slavery in order for others to.profit from.

Again, the notion of players using their skill to be able to make money from the game in a sanctioned way is not something to be ridiculed - but it is also not what is being suggested.

Noaani

Kokeshen wrote: »

Pro Slavery? really?

Until you can come up with a suggestion that would make this not happen, yes, that is the stance you seem to have on it.

Call me old fashioned, but I am not keen on anything being added to any form of entertainment if it could easily result in a person forcing another person to do that thing in order to make money for the first person. While there may well end up being some form of this happen regardless, that is not an excuse to then just actively encourage more of the same behavior.

If you want your idea to be taken even remotely seriously, there are a few things you need to address.

The first is where this crypto will gain it's value from. Things like Bitcoin gain it from there being a hard cap on how much bitcoin can ever be produced - but that is not really suitable to a crypto in an MMO.

Then you need to address what exactly it is that people can do with this coin. You can't just say that it can be traded like all the other crypto currencies out there, as not all crypto currencies are automatically accepted in to exchanges, and this currency would need to have real value from day 1.

Then you need to address why you think Intrepid would be able to get a crypto off teh ground when a consotrium of Facebook, initially backed at least in part by eBay, Mastercard, PayPal, Stripe and Visa - among other companies - is having no end of issues in getting set up.

Next you have the issue of no actual banks being willing to back any form of crypto - something that will be essential if such currencies were to ever have the wide reaching impact you think they will have.

Lastly, you need to address how this system won't simply result in the game being dominated by people sweatshops/actual slaves. I mean, the idea is a no-go anyway, but without addressing this, you are literally suggesting something that will see people put in to slavery over - regardless of any justifications you may have with it.

Without answers to these points, all you are really saying is "I want to make money playing a game, and don't care if that means people in other countries will be enslaved in order to make money for others, herp derp" (the herp derp at the end is key).

So go on, take it seriously, answer these five points - and be prepared for the answers you give to be criticized.

HappyAccident

Wtf even is this thread? Cryptocurrency has no place in AOC. They're not trying to end poverty or save the world. They just want a fun game. Idk. Maybe cryptocurrency might become more mainstream in the future. Maybe it'll be implemented into mmos. But it's not necessary or smart for AOC. It's too much right now.

Sylvanar

Elgondamo wrote: »

it wouldnt hurt the actual game play in anyway.

Are you serious? Cuz I dont think I can take it consider you serious anymore.

Elgondamo wrote: »

If anything it would help compensate players for playing the game instead of getting a job.

You play to have fun --> compensation. If you want monetary compensation to play the game then maybe dont pay the subscription fee and dont play.

Alhem

Really interesting idea OP. I've been pondering that myself. I am surprised to see so many people opposed to it. I think it is coming. I don't see why 5 hours of grinding daily shouldn't be paying off in currency that has real value in the real world in addition to in the virtual world (the game). Some people would consider grinding and playing games to make money more fun than doing many other things that pays in the real world.

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