DPS Meter Megathread

Mojottv wrote: »

And yes, i dont like when there's too much information readily available, especially ingame trackers calculators etc anything thats lowers the bar

Combat trackers do not make information readily available - you still need to go out and get that information.

It takes time - weeks - to get good information. That is not readily available.

I'm curious; when there is a combat tracker working for Ashes - which will happen during beta - will you then wish that the game had one built in so that Intrepid could control it and place restrictions on it as they see fit?

Will you then just download it and use it without issue?

Or will you then just fade in to irrelevance?

These seem to be the options you have made available to yourself.

Noaani wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

And yes, i dont like when there's too much information readily available, especially ingame trackers calculators etc anything thats lowers the bar

Combat trackers do not make information readily available - you still need to go out and get that information.

It takes time - weeks - to get good information. That is not readily available.

I'm curious; when there is a combat tracker working for Ashes - which will happen during beta - will you then wish that the game had one built in so that Intrepid could control it and place restrictions on it as they see fit?

Will you then just download it and use it without issue?

Or will you then just fade in to irrelevance?

These seem to be the options you have made available to yourself.

No, I will laugh when they ban people for using them. Maybe see some streamer tears on youtube saysing i didnt know... i just though... i wasnt using anything ... boohoo... stuff like that makes me happy.

You kind of brought bots into this tread, saying l2 had bots and the bots were only way to reach the top in L2, no?

Mojottv wrote: »

No, I will laugh when they ban people for using them. Maybe see some streamer tears on youtube saysing i didnt know... i just though... i wasnt using anything ... boohoo... stuff like that makes me happy.

First of all, they have not said they will ban people caught using them. This is an important fact to remember.

Second, they are unlikely to ever say this, because they know perfectly well that they will not be able to detect their usage.

I will be running a combat tracker. I have said this a number of times, and even given my justification as to why I will still do this even if they do specifically say they are against the EULA/ToS. I expect Intrepid to be watching my client both during beta and live, and I am in no way worried about them finding anything at all to justify banning me.

Again, I've been saying this for months in this thread now - one of the two combat trackers I am following the development of is able to be run on a computer other than the one running the game client - the computer running the tracker doesn't even need to be connected to the internet.

The other tracker I am following works on Android.

Even if I were streaming, the only way Intrepid would have any idea I was using a combat tracker was if I specifically said I was using one. If someone agrees to an EULA that says combat trackers are not permissible (which again, is not a given), and then says live on a stream that they are using one, I'll enjoy watching them get banned too.

You kind of brought bots into this tread, saying l2 had bots and the bots were only way to reach the top in L2, no?

No.

This was the first mention of bots in this thread - or at least in the last 30 pages.

Mojottv wrote: »

So you mean, if there are going to be bots for this game everyone will have to use them?

I think you are getting threads mixed up - though I also didn't bring them up in the other thread - I was responding to another post by another poster that bought them up.

It happens, it's all good, I am just going to politely shut it down in this thread - or as politely as I get.

@Mojottv
First of all idk why you laugh from streamers when clearly you tried to be one (having ttv in the end means only one thing)

Secondly I do not know where you found out that time investment is in any form a difficulty or even content. Time investment is only an act of commitment to the game. All you are asking for is making simple things take much longer with the only goal to make them take long time. Please stop promoting that any mindless investment of time should put you to the top in any area of the game. All I want for the game is making smart choices for time investment matter. Otherwise the game can be just a cookie clicker where the metric is how long you've been clicking one button

Noaani wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

No, I will laugh when they ban people for using them. Maybe see some streamer tears on youtube saysing i didnt know... i just though... i wasnt using anything ... boohoo... stuff like that makes me happy.

First of all, they have not said they will ban people caught using them. This is an important fact to remember.

Second, they are unlikely to ever say this, because they know perfectly well that they will not be able to detect their usage.

I will be running a combat tracker. I have said this a number of times, and even given my justification as to why I will still do this even if they do specifically say they are against the EULA/ToS. I expect Intrepid to be watching my client both during beta and live, and I am in no way worried about them finding anything at all to justify banning me.

Again, I've been saying this for months in this thread now - one of the two combat trackers I am following the development of is able to be run on a computer other than the one running the game client - the computer running the tracker doesn't even need to be connected to the internet.

The other tracker I am following works on Android.

Even if I were streaming, the only way Intrepid would have any idea I was using a combat tracker was if I specifically said I was using one. If someone agrees to an EULA that says combat trackers are not permissible (which again, is not a given), and then says live on a stream that they are using one, I'll enjoy watching them get banned too.

You kind of brought bots into this tread, saying l2 had bots and the bots were only way to reach the top in L2, no?

No.

This was the first mention of bots in this thread - or at least in the last 30 pages.

Mojottv wrote: »

So you mean, if there are going to be bots for this game everyone will have to use them?

I think you are getting threads mixed up - though I also didn't bring them up in the other thread - I was responding to another post by another poster that bought them up.

It happens, it's all good, I am just going to politely shut it down in this thread - or as politely as I get.

All this text and you didn't say anything new... it was already clear that you would use anything possible to make game easier for you, even if it means 3rd party tools. And it was already clear that you don't care about following the rules.

Well i really hope they make using any kind of 3rd party tools a Banable offence.

Tragnar wrote: »

@Mojottv
First of all idk why you laugh from streamers when clearly you tried to be one (having ttv in the end means only one thing)

Secondly I do not know where you found out that time investment is in any form a difficulty or even content. Time investment is only an act of commitment to the game. All you are asking for is making simple things take much longer with the only goal to make them take long time. Please stop promoting that any mindless investment of time should put you to the top in any area of the game. All I want for the game is making smart choices for time investment matter. Otherwise the game can be just a cookie clicker where the metric is how long you've been clicking one button

First, why wouldn't I? If the **** gets banned because of cheating and starts crying on steam, i will laugh my ass off. As its top shelf entertainment, I just love when smart asses who think they're so clever and can cheat over others, get what they deserve. Me streaming has absolutely nothing to do with this.

Mindless investment of time will never put you on top. But people who spend their in game time smart, and invest more time, should be on top of people who invest less time. Its only fair. Otherwise, just have a game where you log in and you instantly get best shit.

Mojottv wrote: »

Well i really hope they make using any kind of 3rd party tools a Banable offence.

So you want to ban people creating guides on the internet, you want to ban people organizing their guilds through discord, you want to ban people when trying to theorycraft in google sheets or even with pen and paper. You want to ban unofficial forums. You want to ban streamers trying to teach the game to their audience.

All of the above are 3rd party tools. This is not the early 2000s where these things almost didnt exist. However they did exist, but they were not mainstream as they are now. So tell me why do you want all of it gone?

Mojottv wrote: »

All this text and you didn't say anything new...

I haven't said anything new in this thread for the last 40 pages.

And no, I don't much care about following the rules of a company if the rule in question goes against the grain of the rest of the industry.

Tragnar wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

Well i really hope they make using any kind of 3rd party tools a Banable offence.

So you want to ban people creating guides on the internet, you want to ban people organizing their guilds through discord, you want to ban people when trying to theorycraft in google sheets or even with pen and paper. You want to ban unofficial forums. You want to ban streamers trying to teach the game to their audience.

All of the above are 3rd party tools. This is not the early 2000s where these things almost didnt exist. However they did exist, but they were not mainstream as they are now. So tell me why do you want all of it gone?

Wtf u talking about? This is pointless...

Noaani wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

All this text and you didn't say anything new...

I haven't said anything new in this thread for the last 40 pages.

And no, I don't much care about following the rules of a company if the rule in question goes against the grain of the rest of the industry.

yes yes, thats what i mean, rules dont apply to you if you dont like the rules, ok. Gl.dont have anything more to talk to you about

All I'm talking about is the ban on 3rd party tools. It is pointless to fight them. The only thing that the game shouldn't allow is to have anything/anyone play instead of the player. If the player wants to do outside the game anything that could help him understand the game better and play it better is only for the good of the game.

Mojottv wrote: »

yes yes, thats what i mean, rules dont apply to you if you dont like the rules, ok. Gl.dont have anything more to talk to you about

You are making the assumption that it will be against the rules still. We have no reason to assume this will be the case.

Eques3n

Count me in as a yes and no.

I played WoW from Burning Crusade and into Battle for Azeroth. I saw DPS meters go from a curiosity where people used them to tweak their characters for better damage, healing and managing cool downs to a device that got people kicked from raids, guilds and parties. They have become a double edged sword. They can be used to greatly enhance your game play or they can be used to destroy a players enjoyment by becoming a barrier that keeps a player out of some types of game play.

When I started playing Black Desert Online and there were no DPS meters, I noticed people stopped worrying about DPS and switched to kill vs death. Some classes don't do as much dps as others, but can still kill someone/something just as fast because of speed, maneuverability and skill.

I don't miss DPS meters at all to be honest.

The only solution I can think of would be to have an in game DPS meter on something like training dummies and then when the player leaves the training dummy the dps meter goes away. Thus it is a good training aid, but not used in actual game play.

Eques3n wrote: »

I played WoW from Burning Crusade and into Battle for Azeroth. I saw DPS meters go from a curiosity where people used them to tweak their characters for better damage, healing and managing cool downs to a device that got people kicked from raids, guilds and parties.

That is the difference between a game without any automated grouping systems, and a game with such systems.

Noaani wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

yes yes, thats what i mean, rules dont apply to you if you dont like the rules, ok. Gl.dont have anything more to talk to you about

You are making the assumption that it will be against the rules still. We have no reason to assume this will be the case.

Didnt make any assumptions. you said you will use them either way, so I made a statement based on your statement.

Eques3n wrote: »

I played WoW from Burning Crusade and into Battle for Azeroth. I saw DPS meters go from a curiosity where people used them to tweak their characters for better damage, healing and managing cool downs to a device that got people kicked from raids, guilds and parties.

People were being kicked because of dungeon/raid finder and server transfers. Blizzard just made it too easy to replace instantly any player that you will never see again with a new one.

ElCrisp

Eques3n wrote: »

Count me in as a yes and no.
The only solution I can think of would be to have an in game DPS meter on something like training dummies and then when the player leaves the training dummy the dps meter goes away. Thus it is a good training aid, but not used in actual game play.

I think this is the best solution.

I think dps meters make solving the game easier.
Not only do they make solving easier but the process to solve becomes less involved in actual game play, and there for less fun. Instead you are managing a number rather than feeling immersed in the fight.

I dont want to know exactly to the number the dps I need for a certain encounter to bother engaging with it.
I want to try and fail and try again and eventually taste success.

Games will always be solved eventually, but making that proccess too easy for players, means content gets stale quickly.

Caeryl

ElCrisp wrote: »

Eques3n wrote: »

Count me in as a yes and no.
The only solution I can think of would be to have an in game DPS meter on something like training dummies and then when the player leaves the training dummy the dps meter goes away. Thus it is a good training aid, but not used in actual game play.

I think this is the best solution.

I think dps meters make solving the game easier.
Not only do they make solving easier but the process to solve becomes less involved in actual game play, and there for less fun. Instead you are managing a number rather than feeling immersed in the fight.

I dont want to know exactly to the number the dps I need for a certain encounter to bother engaging with it.
I want to try and fail and try again and eventually taste success.

Games will always be solved eventually, but making that proccess too easy for players, means content gets stale quickly.

Numbers off a training dummy are little better than a baseline of a player’s ability, it has little to no relevance to the overall performance of a build in a raid setting.

You will still fail and retry until you get it right. Having the blueprint for a house doesn’t make it any less challenging to build, it just cuts out the guesswork that will waste time and resources. That’s all a lack of information does; causes frustration for no gain.

Mojottv wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

yes yes, thats what i mean, rules dont apply to you if you dont like the rules, ok. Gl.dont have anything more to talk to you about

You are making the assumption that it will be against the rules still. We have no reason to assume this will be the case.

Didnt make any assumptions. you said you will use them either way, so I made a statement based on your statement.

Fair enough.

And I stand by that - if Intrepid want to be the outlier in regards to rules that MMO players have been generally abiding by for decades now, they will need to expect people to simply not want to follow the rules that are outliers.