[Discussion] Should the levels be revealed to outsiders?

I heard recently that Intrepid is letting people outside of guilds and friend groups see the the following below as stated by Jahlon on Discord and has specified these:
Level, Class Combination, Armor Type, Armor Tier

There was a bit of discussion, some support this and others do not and that has me curious. What do you think about this? Should the above be public information to outsiders? Or should they be hidden as to make it risky for everyone involved?

Please discuss your thoughts!

https://strawpoll.com/swjucvr44 - Here's the poll. Would like to see how many would support this argument and who would not support this.

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Mojottv

arsnn wrote: »

So i completely agree with aspect that knowing the enemy´s level or gear is not good for gameplay.

But i personally would enjoy strolling around in the node and having a look at my fellow citizen´s stuff and progress. This could be helpfull to give out tips or simply mutually exchange infos on gear and character related topics. Also when visiting other nodes this could be interesting to know which kind of path they are going with gear, like realizing "Oh gawd those guys from the north seem to be tanky as hell"

So maybe display the level in safer zones?

Yeah, but thats where good old talking to people and interacting with people comes in, if info is dislayed, you just will look at it and run away on ur business, if not, to know this info, you would actually need to ask and talk to people, and some would tell you, some would not and its their choice..

Damokles

I support us being able to see our opponents level etc.
You would be able to do the same in real life.

arsnn

Mojottv wrote: »

arsnn wrote: »

So i completely agree with aspect that knowing the enemy´s level or gear is not good for gameplay.

But i personally would enjoy strolling around in the node and having a look at my fellow citizen´s stuff and progress. This could be helpfull to give out tips or simply mutually exchange infos on gear and character related topics. Also when visiting other nodes this could be interesting to know which kind of path they are going with gear, like realizing "Oh gawd those guys from the north seem to be tanky as hell"

So maybe display the level in safer zones?

Yeah, but thats where good old talking to people and interacting with people comes in, if info is dislayed, you just will look at it and run away on ur business, if not, to know this info, you would actually need to ask and talk to people, and some would tell you, some would not and its their choice..

You may never ask people about why they have armor x and helmet y, when you dont have the info initially.
People probably mostly having cosmetics on them is another treshhold.
Also you rely on people responding back and it might be a huge time investment to ask many people, so you might never get to know how certain people in your node progress their chars and get to help them in some way. Maybe you know weapon x will be a good fit and suggest them grinding them at a certain spot or get to know a new approach.

Mojottv

I mean revealing all the information prior to the encounter totally destroys any enjoyment, surprise factor etc. @Damokles in real life you wouldn't know if someone is jujitsu master until you actually get into the fight.

I know, for a lot of people that are worried about pvp and getting ganked etc etc, this seems like a good idea, as you can hover over other guy and immediately know if you can kill him or not.

I think with lvl's its a bit overextending, i get the armor grades and tiers, but damn, next thing you know, they will reveal all the augments, skill builds and everything...

Damokles

Mojottv wrote: »

I mean revealing all the information prior to the encounter totally destroys any enjoyment, surprise factor etc. @Damokles in real life you wouldn't know if someone is jujitsu master until you actually get into the fight.

I know, for a lot of people that are worried about pvp and getting ganked etc etc, this seems like a good idea, as you can hover over other guy and immediately know if you can kill him or not.

I think with lvl's its a bit overextending, i get the armor grades and tiers, but damn, next thing you know, they will reveal all the augments, skill builds and everything...

Yeah, but you can see if he has protctive gear or not (Equipment). You can gouge his stance and overall musculature (LvL).

CROW3

Mojottv wrote: »

I mean revealing all the information prior to the encounter totally destroys any enjoyment, surprise factor etc. @Damokles in real life you wouldn't know if someone is jujitsu master until you actually get into the fight.

Yes, but IRL there is no coefficient to the magnitude of effects. A 10yr old can shoot a 50 year old 4th Dan BJJ guy in the head and that encounter is over. In Ashes a lvl10 will try to attack a lvl50 and have ZERO chance to win.

I'm all for not showing level, as long as level is disconnected from core stats, as in Insurgency.

Noaani

Mojottv wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

Lvl why?

This is the single most important factor to be shown, as it is the only one that translates to the level of penalty on offer.

If you kill a lower level non-combatant, you gain significantly more corruption than if you killed an equal level non-combatant.

All up though, I really don't understand any position players can have that thinks it is a good idea to purposfully obfuscate information from players. Give players more information than they need, and let us sort out what information we care about.

CROW3 wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

Lvl why?

My reasoning: It's the biggest coefficient for offensive/defensive power which translates to risk. You can be perfectly skilled, and totally confused as to why you got face-rolled by some dude in rags that's 30 levels above you.

Without knowing that someone is statistically orders of magnitude above you, you'll have no feedback as to whether it's basic algebra, your skill, or both you need to overcome before beating the other player.

In the good olden days, we would judge players lvl by their equipment and skills they use. This would also allow, to change eq to pretend to be a lower lvl than you actually are to bait some people from other guild you're at war. I would compromise on showing if player is higher or lower lvl, as this could mean +1lvl or -1lvl as +10lvl or -10. But giving too much information is ridiculous, next thing you will want win chance persentage, so u run up to a guy, it shows 45% chance of winning, u turn around and run back. Information about players skills, stats, lvl, health, mana, etc should be private.

You would have a potential point here if it weren't for the fact that a level 1 can equip the best looking cosmetics in the game, and those wanting to attack them have no way of looking at their actual gear.

I'm not interested in the game working out a percentage win chance for me - but I should have the information needed to be able to work that out myself.

Irohnic

arsnn wrote: »

So i completely agree with aspect that knowing the enemy´s level or gear is not good for gameplay.

But i personally would enjoy strolling around in the node and having a look at my fellow citizen´s stuff and progress. This could be helpfull to give out tips or simply mutually exchange infos on gear and character related topics. Also when visiting other nodes this could be interesting to know which kind of path they are going with gear, like realizing "Oh gawd those guys from the north seem to be tanky as hell"

So maybe display the level in safer zones?

That would be really cool if different regions of a server developed their own playstyles/builds, but I'm afraid with today's access to information and the amount of content we as gamers consume on YouTube and other platforms, it will most likely be content creators and other online info that shape trends in builds much more than word of mouth in game.

Tacualeon

CROW3 wrote: »

Level & class name (i.e. Sentinel, guardian, etc.) not combo name (e.g. ranger/tank, tank/tank).

I like this, only the primary. The guessing game, the risk factor it's a bilateral cat-and-mouse interaction.

Class:
Armor type:
Lvl difference: Grey, Green, Yellow, Red.
Life pool: Life pool at the distance shows porcentage. Melee range gear inspection reveals life pool in numbers

Skills, stats and build should be private or have check-boxes.
Also, death recap:

Dayuhan wrote: »

Also, there should be a chance of someone noticing if they are being sized-up.

That would be great interaction.

Mojottv

Noaani wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

Lvl why?

This is the single most important factor to be shown, as it is the only one that translates to the level of penalty on offer.

If you kill a lower level non-combatant, you gain significantly more corruption than if you killed an equal level non-combatant.

All up though, I really don't understand any position players can have that thinks it is a good idea to purposfully obfuscate information from players. Give players more information than they need, and let us sort out what information we care about.

CROW3 wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

Lvl why?

My reasoning: It's the biggest coefficient for offensive/defensive power which translates to risk. You can be perfectly skilled, and totally confused as to why you got face-rolled by some dude in rags that's 30 levels above you.

Without knowing that someone is statistically orders of magnitude above you, you'll have no feedback as to whether it's basic algebra, your skill, or both you need to overcome before beating the other player.

In the good olden days, we would judge players lvl by their equipment and skills they use. This would also allow, to change eq to pretend to be a lower lvl than you actually are to bait some people from other guild you're at war. I would compromise on showing if player is higher or lower lvl, as this could mean +1lvl or -1lvl as +10lvl or -10. But giving too much information is ridiculous, next thing you will want win chance persentage, so u run up to a guy, it shows 45% chance of winning, u turn around and run back. Information about players skills, stats, lvl, health, mana, etc should be private.

You would have a potential point here if it weren't for the fact that a level 1 can equip the best looking cosmetics in the game, and those wanting to attack them have no way of looking at their actual gear.

I'm not interested in the game working out a percentage win chance for me - but I should have the information needed to be able to work that out myself.

well it has been confirmed, that gear grade and rarity will be shown, so you will be able to roughly see what gear they have

AntVictus

Still a no. gear tier, and armor type sure. But not levels.

Kneczhevo

Dayuhan wrote: »

Also, there should be a chance of someone noticing if they are being sized-up.

Oh, hell no! I hated being spammed with; "So-and-so is inspecting you".

Noaani

Mojottv wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

Lvl why?

This is the single most important factor to be shown, as it is the only one that translates to the level of penalty on offer.

If you kill a lower level non-combatant, you gain significantly more corruption than if you killed an equal level non-combatant.

All up though, I really don't understand any position players can have that thinks it is a good idea to purposfully obfuscate information from players. Give players more information than they need, and let us sort out what information we care about.

CROW3 wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

Lvl why?

My reasoning: It's the biggest coefficient for offensive/defensive power which translates to risk. You can be perfectly skilled, and totally confused as to why you got face-rolled by some dude in rags that's 30 levels above you.

Without knowing that someone is statistically orders of magnitude above you, you'll have no feedback as to whether it's basic algebra, your skill, or both you need to overcome before beating the other player.

In the good olden days, we would judge players lvl by their equipment and skills they use. This would also allow, to change eq to pretend to be a lower lvl than you actually are to bait some people from other guild you're at war. I would compromise on showing if player is higher or lower lvl, as this could mean +1lvl or -1lvl as +10lvl or -10. But giving too much information is ridiculous, next thing you will want win chance persentage, so u run up to a guy, it shows 45% chance of winning, u turn around and run back. Information about players skills, stats, lvl, health, mana, etc should be private.

You would have a potential point here if it weren't for the fact that a level 1 can equip the best looking cosmetics in the game, and those wanting to attack them have no way of looking at their actual gear.

I'm not interested in the game working out a percentage win chance for me - but I should have the information needed to be able to work that out myself.

well it has been confirmed, that gear grade and rarity will be shown, so you will be able to roughly see what gear they have

My assumption (and it is just that at this stage) is that this will work essentially the same as it does in Archeage.

If this is the case, without seeing the level of an opponent, you really won't be able to tell the difference between a character at the level cap and a lower level one. Knowing a character has a specific grade of item only tells you how much of a challenge that player may be for their level.

As a piece of information, that is not really significant without knowing what level the character is - since most gear will be crafted it is reasonable to assume that at least most levels of rarity will be available at low levels.

Thing is, it is the level of character that is the one piece of information that is actually the most important for others to know. it is the one piece of information that has material worth.

Vedia

I think levels should be hidden, it allows for more robust PvP mechanics and more player freedom by disincentivising PvP abuse by making it more risky to attack players. I think there should be a limit that you're only allowed to initiate a flight with someone your level or higher unless you're in a specific wilderness zone, to eliminate higher levels ganking lower levels entirely.

daveywavey

In a Risk vs Reward style game like this one, it should be kept hidden.

halbarz

I do not think the level should be visible as long as you are not in combat with that person or in a group. This to leave a bit of mystery this should be the case for everything from gear indicator to class combo, etc. But to be honest whatever it ends up being it is nothing game-breaking for me

Wandering Mist

The only piece of information I'd like to know is the levels of each character, for one simple reason - If I'm on my level 50 character and I think I'm about to fight another level 50 character, the last thing I want to do is 1-shot them because they were actually level 20, and I get corrupted because of it.

CROW3

Wandering Mist wrote: »

The only piece of information I'd like to know is the levels of each character, for one simple reason - If I'm on my level 50 character and I think I'm about to fight another level 50 character, the last thing I want to do is 1-shot them because they were actually level 20, and I get corrupted because of it.

Exactly.

Mojottv

CROW3 wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

The only piece of information I'd like to know is the levels of each character, for one simple reason - If I'm on my level 50 character and I think I'm about to fight another level 50 character, the last thing I want to do is 1-shot them because they were actually level 20, and I get corrupted because of it.

Exactly.

Well if you are running around and flagging on random people for no reason, maybe you should be at risk of one shootting some lowbie to get corruption?

This won't happen, if you want to take over hunting spot

Nagash

I don't care either way to be honest

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