Dealing with random player killing in an open-world PvP MMO.

For such an ambitious player-driven MMO as Ashes, the presence of random player killing (RPK) poses a challenge.
How do you allow for player agency while protecting new / weak players?

On one hand, giving players the agency to dish out justice in blood makes the world much more interactive and unpredictable, as your reputation and behavior may have dire consequences.

However, the challenge is that this level of PvP-interactivity, typically also gives rise to RPKs. Some of which intentionally grief, and others who just PvP indiscriminately.

The corruption system is already a great safety mechanism against this. However, with player-interaction at the heart of Ashes it would be great to see additional counter-RPK mechanisms that are driven by the players themselves.
Bounty hunters as planned, are a great first step.

However, bounty hunting only taps into monetary motivation. It'd be great to provide tools by which guilds and players may establish a reputation of benevolence and fairness. If Newbie Joe can report a RPK or griefer to the local guild, then it puts justice back into the hands of players. If the game tracks and incentivizes such player-driven justice, then guilds may want their territory to garner a reputation as a safe haven with just proceedings.

If Anti-PKing or peacekeeping is made worthwhile in this sense, we'll be encouraging the community to respond to griefing or bad behavior organically.

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Moid

It’s amazing how hard headed some people are and how stunningly and completely illogical they are.

I’m now being told by people who clearly aren’t much more conscious than a rock that giving people options in a game is “trying to force players to play a certain way”.

Even *almost* the dumbest people amongst us know how stupid such a statement is. Yeah, I hurt someone’s feelings by pointing that out. The truth hurts. Hey, fix it, stop being stupid, it isn’t hard.

I understood before I made my original post that you “elites” would not want to hear dissenting opinions. You should consider your hysterical emotional irrational responses and the ridiculous things it causes you to say just like the above. Yes, I know you won’t as you are slaves to your emotions.

Then we get the moronic questions.

“Why even bother to sign up and participate in Ashes' forum if you don't like its PvX gameplay?”

Has AoC been released yet? Who’s played it so far? I’ll be the first to admit that I have been unable to play a game which hasn’t released yet. Pretty shocking huh?

This does help explain things though. Clearly the people I’m “discussing” this with aren’t all there. The rest of the post is as nonsensical as the question.

The not so interesting observation is the constant questions about why us non-purists are even doing here, what brought us here, why are we staying here, etc. The not at all subtle suggestion is that we should leave rather than speaking. Those attempts to shut down speech is tyrannical. It’s typical of the “elitists” I’ve encountered in the past and not at all surprising to me.

In that vein, not ironically, people asking “why we are here” blindly miss their supporters who clearly state there are other PvX games:

“And most recent PVX games, which are quite old, they still are going“

So are people really asking why I’m here? No, they aren’t. People, “elites”, want their precious game designed the way they feel will make them happy. Any design which deviates will cause them to have hurt feelings and possibly cry.

Time for cheese.

Bricktop

Moid wrote: »

So are people really asking why I’m here? No, they aren’t. People, “elites”, want their precious game designed the way they feel will make them happy. Any design which deviates will cause them to have hurt feelings and possibly cry.

Yeah I have no idea what you are going on about to be honest. The games being designed in the devs vision and that includes all the things you are arguing against. We want the game to stay on track the way it is and not change the entire vision of the game to cater to certain types of players.

Moid wrote: »

You should consider your hysterical emotional irrational responses and the ridiculous things it causes you to say just like the above

You are legitimately the only person right now who is coming across as hysterical, emotional and irrational. Calling everybody stupid and morons isn't really helping your case either.

Vyraka

Is this thread STILL alive? LOL

Nagash

Vyraka wrote: »

Is this thread STILL alive? LOL

Nothing dies on the forums

Dolyem

Moid wrote: »

It’s amazing how hard headed some people are and how stunningly and completely illogical they are.

I’m now being told by people who clearly aren’t much more conscious than a rock that giving people options in a game is “trying to force players to play a certain way”.

Even *almost* the dumbest people amongst us know how stupid such a statement is. Yeah, I hurt someone’s feelings by pointing that out. The truth hurts. Hey, fix it, stop being stupid, it isn’t hard.

I understood before I made my original post that you “elites” would not want to hear dissenting opinions. You should consider your hysterical emotional irrational responses and the ridiculous things it causes you to say just like the above. Yes, I know you won’t as you are slaves to your emotions.

Then we get the moronic questions.

“Why even bother to sign up and participate in Ashes' forum if you don't like its PvX gameplay?”

Has AoC been released yet? Who’s played it so far? I’ll be the first to admit that I have been unable to play a game which hasn’t released yet. Pretty shocking huh?

This does help explain things though. Clearly the people I’m “discussing” this with aren’t all there. The rest of the post is as nonsensical as the question.

The not so interesting observation is the constant questions about why us non-purists are even doing here, what brought us here, why are we staying here, etc. The not at all subtle suggestion is that we should leave rather than speaking. Those attempts to shut down speech is tyrannical. It’s typical of the “elitists” I’ve encountered in the past and not at all surprising to me.

In that vein, not ironically, people asking “why we are here” blindly miss their supporters who clearly state there are other PvX games:

“And most recent PVX games, which are quite old, they still are going“

So are people really asking why I’m here? No, they aren’t. People, “elites”, want their precious game designed the way they feel will make them happy. Any design which deviates will cause them to have hurt feelings and possibly cry.

Time for cheese.

Ah yes, name calling. Not going to bother reading something written by someone who has to attempt to insult people instead of staying on point, however I feel inclined to warn you that there has been at least one casualty on this forum post already due to them being unable to stop making personal attacks due to differing opinions, @Wandering Mist can confirm

Paradise2

Moid wrote: »

Then we get the moronic questions.

“Why even bother to sign up and participate in Ashes' forum if you don't like its PvX gameplay?”

It's definitely worth discussing. But Ashes does seem unique in this regard, in so far as PvX and player-interactions lie at the core of the game.

Still, people clearly differ in how they want this player-interactivity to look, and how they relate to problems such as random player killing or griefing.

Moid

Bricktop wrote: »

You are legitimately the only person right now who is coming across as hysterical, emotional and irrational. Calling everybody stupid and morons isn't really helping your case either.

If I were or had called everyone stupid then you might be able to claim I’m hysterical, emotional, and irrational. The problem is I never called everyone stupid and you are free to quote me to prove I’m correct in that assertion. Please do so as my comments are available for you to quote.

The only people I call out for making stupid comments are people like you who ... make stupid comments just like the one above. Your comment goes above stupid though as it also ventures into the area of hysterical, emotional, and irrational due to your ridiculous exaggerated claim of what I said when proof of your claim being false is starring us in the face.

Lying about what someone said in a forum is another tactic I’ve seen you “elites” use.

Dolyem wrote: »

Ah yes, name calling. Not going to bother reading something written by someone who has to attempt to insult people instead of staying on point, however I feel inclined to warn you that there has been at least one casualty on this forum post already due to them being unable to stop making personal attacks due to differing opinions, @Wandering Mist can confirm

Stop lying, you never read past my suggestion that PvE areas be included in the game. And you’re the genius who claimed that my suggesting an additional play style option for the game is “forcing players to play a certain way.”

@Dolyem, “@Moid Listen man, if you can't understand that you are trying to force players to play a certain way I don't know what to tell you.”

Again this is an utterly epically stupid take on my comments. It shows either your reading comprehension levels are so grotesquely low that you couldn’t understand what I posted or you’re intentionally lying about what I posted.

Not a single suggestion I posted would force anyone to play or play a certain way and my comments are available for you to quote to prove me right.

Dolyem

Moid wrote: »

Bricktop wrote: »

You are legitimately the only person right now who is coming across as hysterical, emotional and irrational. Calling everybody stupid and morons isn't really helping your case either.

If I were or had called everyone stupid then you might be able to claim I’m hysterical, emotional, and irrational. The problem is I never called everyone stupid and you are free to quote me to prove I’m correct in that assertion. Please do so as my comments are available for you to quote.

The only people I call out for making stupid comments are people like you who ... make stupid comments just like the one above. Your comment goes above stupid though as it also ventures into the area of hysterical, emotional, and irrational due to your ridiculous exaggerated claim of what I said when proof of your claim being false is starring us in the face.

Lying about what someone said in a forum is another tactic I’ve seen you “elites” use.

Dolyem wrote: »

Ah yes, name calling. Not going to bother reading something written by someone who has to attempt to insult people instead of staying on point, however I feel inclined to warn you that there has been at least one casualty on this forum post already due to them being unable to stop making personal attacks due to differing opinions, @Wandering Mist can confirm

Stop lying, you never read past my suggestion that PvE areas be included in the game. And you’re the genius who claimed that my suggesting an additional play style option for the game is “forcing players to play a certain way.”

@Dolyem, “@Moid Listen man, if you can't understand that you are trying to force players to play a certain way I don't know what to tell you.”

Again this is an utterly epically stupid take on my comments. It shows either your reading comprehension levels are so grotesquely low that you couldn’t understand what I posted or you’re intentionally lying about what I posted.

Not a single suggestion I posted would force anyone to play or play a certain way and my comments are available for you to quote to prove me right.

I'm telling you man, you really don't want to make personal attacks. You''ll likely get tossed in forum jail. But let me explain this to you since you think this isn't a playstyle for some reason. Open world PvP and PvX is its own playstyle and genre. It is the genre of Ashes of Creation. So if you try to change it to something different(Options to opt-out of pvp for example), you are forcing your playstyle onto the game. Allowing for the option to opt out of the current playstyle completely changes the type of game that it is seeing as the game is designed for progression through both PvP, PvE, and a consistent "Risk vs Reward" mindset which includes risking getting ganked while searching for rewards. I hope this clears things up for you, but by the way you are acting I have my doubts that it will.

Paradise2

It's interesting how intense the disagreement around this subject is. Guess we'll have to see how Intrepid juggles these different concerns.

Dolyem

Miracle wrote: »

It's interesting how intense the disagreement around this subject is. Guess we'll have to see how Intrepid juggles these different concerns.

Pretty confident that intrepid isn't budging on the open world pvp gameplay, which is good. It's been too long since a zero-opt in pvp PvX MMO has released.

Moid

Dolyem wrote: »

I'm telling you man, you really don't want to make personal attacks. You''ll likely get tossed in forum jail. But let me explain this to you since you think this isn't a playstyle for some reason. Open world PvP and PvX is its own playstyle and genre. It is the genre of Ashes of Creation. So if you try to change it to something different(Options to opt-out of pvp for example), you are forcing your playstyle onto the game. Allowing for the option to opt out of the current playstyle completely changes the type of game that it is seeing as the game is designed for progression through both PvP, PvE, and a consistent "Risk vs Reward" mindset which includes risking getting ganked while searching for rewards. I hope this clears things up for you, but by the way you are acting I have my doubts that it will.

You’re a broken record. Typical of an “elite”, completely incapable of understanding anything.

Adding zones to the game which are unreachable by the PvP oriented crowd has zero effect on the PvP or PvX or XyZ playstyle or genre. I never suggested any kind of flag to opt out of PvP in PvX zones. Of course you don’t know that because you simply reacted emotionally and hysterically to my post without reading. Again typical of you “elites”.

Zones which you cannot reach do not alter your play in your PvWhatever zones. All the same risk vs reward is still present in your precious PvWhatever zones. Nothing changes, nothing.

This is all very illogical and bizarre that people cannot understand this simple concept. Oh but it isn’t as I’ve seen this before. You “elites” aren’t concerned with a PvEer over in an isolated protected zone away from your PvWhatever zone. You’re real concern is with what might happen to the rewards available in those PvE zones.

You want progression and necessary item drops to be the sole function of PvWhatever, you’re afraid the developers might put some items in PvE zones. Why? Because that would force you to choose between going without certain PvE-only items or PvEing for those items.

That’s the true problem you have. You don’t want to be forced to PvE. I never suggested that players be forced to PvE but again you don’t read, you simply start whining at the first moment someone suggests anything PvE.

I wonder how many times I could reiterate that I never suggested players be forced to PvE without the “elites” comprehending it. I’m thinking the number if sky high. Some people are truly dense.

Dolyem

Moid wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

I'm telling you man, you really don't want to make personal attacks. You''ll likely get tossed in forum jail. But let me explain this to you since you think this isn't a playstyle for some reason. Open world PvP and PvX is its own playstyle and genre. It is the genre of Ashes of Creation. So if you try to change it to something different(Options to opt-out of pvp for example), you are forcing your playstyle onto the game. Allowing for the option to opt out of the current playstyle completely changes the type of game that it is seeing as the game is designed for progression through both PvP, PvE, and a consistent "Risk vs Reward" mindset which includes risking getting ganked while searching for rewards. I hope this clears things up for you, but by the way you are acting I have my doubts that it will.

You’re a broken record. Typical of an “elite”, completely incapable of understanding anything.

Adding zones to the game which are unreachable by the PvP oriented crowd has zero effect on the PvP or PvX or XyZ playstyle or genre. I never suggested any kind of flag to opt out of PvP in PvX zones. Of course you don’t know that because you simply reacted emotionally and hysterically to my post without reading. Again typical of you “elites”.

Zones which you cannot reach do not alter your play in your PvWhatever zones. All the same risk vs reward is still present in your precious PvWhatever zones. Nothing changes, nothing.

This is all very illogical and bizarre that people cannot understand this simple concept. Oh but it isn’t as I’ve seen this before. You “elites” aren’t concerned with a PvEer over in an isolated protected zone away from your PvWhatever zone. You’re real concern is with what might happen to the rewards available in those PvE zones.

You want progression and necessary item drops to be the sole function of PvWhatever, you’re afraid the developers might put some items in PvE zones. Why? Because that would force you to choose between going without certain PvE-only items or PvEing for those items.

That’s the true problem you have. You don’t want to be forced to PvE. I never suggested that players be forced to PvE but again you don’t read, you simply start whining at the first moment someone suggests anything PvE.

I wonder how many times I could reiterate that I never suggested players be forced to PvE without the “elites” comprehending it. I’m thinking the number if sky high. Some people are truly dense.

Creating a zone to do strictly PvE content without having to deal with PvP sounds an awful lot like a way to opt out of PvP... Why shouldn't they be a thing? Because its not a PvE game. The entire game is PvX, which means if you want to go do PvE content, you will still likely be involved in PvP, and vice versa. And that is the genre of the game... once you make either one opt out, it changes the game. And that isn't the vision of the game. I don't want an entirely PvP game or an entirely PvE game, I want the PvX game where I have to do both, and that's how it is being designed. So just because you only want a piece of it, doesn't mean you get to change up the way the game works. The irony is you are going on about "elites" crapping all over the PvE content, when you are blatantly wanting to draw a line between PvE and PvP content because you don't want PvP in zones where you quest and gather resources. Like come on man the hypocrisy is crazy. Anyway I am done arguing with you. I also warned you plenty of times about the insults, so if you get tossed in forum jail that's on you man.

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