corruption debuff idea?

how about a compromise? instead of nerfing the red's stats and gimping their character.. make it so when youre corrupted you are just straight full drop. thats a heavy penalty but one that reds are use to bearing. it makes bounty hunting extremely profitable, its a huge penalty on reds but it doesnt prevent us from playing the way we like to play it. however it will be enough of a hit to deter the vast majority of most people from doing it.. which will make it so the game isnt a gankfest

bad guys are important.. noone wants to have their game destroyed but it adds a much more dangerous aspect to the game when you have reds.. im just saying we should be able to play the game the same as anyone else.. not get nerfed for it ;\

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Noaani

Warth wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Warth wrote: »

This would reduce the possibilities of people trying to game the system

I'm curious as to how you think people would attempt to game this system.

if the primary penalty for corruption becomes the drop of your entire gear set then people will simply use their friends to kill them and loot the gear they have dropped, returning it once the corruption is gone.

That's why gear drop can at best only be one in a system of multi-layered penalties, as it might be the most significant one, but also the one that is the easiest to circumvent.

Ah, so you are saying that it would prevent gaming the system if this change was made.

I agree with that, but also want to point out the obvious in that this is why the penalty for corruption is multi-faceted, which is why this specific idea won't fly.

Sathrago

In response to " Your family member can just summon you and kill you lul". Im pretty sure they are not going to allow you to kill your family members if they dont allow you to attack guildies, alliance members, raid members, and group members. AoC wiki quote: "A player may not flag on members of the same party, raid, guild or alliance.[37]" Now I will admit I am assuming things here, but it would be very odd if you could attack family members but can't attack random people in your party. From a logical point of view
Sure you can have outliers where a friend that is in none of the above comes and helps, but this is such a miniscule work around that would be tedious and quite annoying to set up. So if they really wanna do it, knock yourselves out morons ill just go attack a caravan when i wanna pvp.

TortaSteve

Warth wrote: »

@Sathrago i believe that the gear of corrupted players should be destroyed instead of dropped either way. Maybe give the person that kills them a broken version of it, that can be salvaged for ~20-50% of the resources needed to craft a replacement.

This would reduce the possibilities of people trying to game the system, further invigorate the economy as crafters, caravans and gatherers become involved into the crafting of a replacement as well as support the scarcity of resources as more resources are taken out of the economy periodically, which in turn drives player conflict in the world.

I like the idea but would counter that they can still trade or drop gear to circumvent the system. A better idea might be to bind the gear/weapons to the player once they reach a certain corruption level.

Or alternatively if you allow trading or dropping of gear then have it to where that gear breaks if dropped or traded when corruption reaches a certain point.

TortaSteve

Noaani wrote: »

Warth wrote: »

This would reduce the possibilities of people trying to game the system

I'm curious as to how you think people would attempt to game this system.

@Noaani they could have their friend kill them and hold their gear when they become too corrupted. They could also just drop or trade the gear for a friend to pick up as well. This would completely defeat the corruption system's intent making it ineffective at that point.

Warth

DaddySteve wrote: »

Warth wrote: »

@Sathrago i believe that the gear of corrupted players should be destroyed instead of dropped either way. Maybe give the person that kills them a broken version of it, that can be salvaged for ~20-50% of the resources needed to craft a replacement.

This would reduce the possibilities of people trying to game the system, further invigorate the economy as crafters, caravans and gatherers become involved into the crafting of a replacement as well as support the scarcity of resources as more resources are taken out of the economy periodically, which in turn drives player conflict in the world.

I like the idea but would counter that they can still trade or drop gear to circumvent the system. A better idea might be to bind the gear/weapons to the player once they reach a certain corruption level.

Or alternatively if you allow trading or dropping of gear then have it to where that gear breaks if dropped or traded when corruption reaches a certain point.

imo dropping items to the ground for others to loot opens itself up for all kind of stupid shenanigans. I don't think this should be a feature at all. Apart from some minor RP-applications, it doesn't even serve a purpose at all.

@DaddySteve This is a problem currently as well. You can't give people the opportunity to unequip the gear to dodge the gear death penalty (whether its in the form of gear destruction or gear drop), otherwise they'd simply equip LvL 1 gear, or unequip all gear before they die. This is quite easily circumvented though, simply

shadow flag the gear that was equipped upon murdering the green, making it impossible to trade and store, while being subject to the gear drop/destruction until the corruption that caused the flag was worked off.
or don't let corrupted players unequip gear until the corruption penalty has been worked off.

TortaSteve

Warth wrote: »

DaddySteve wrote: »

Warth wrote: »

@Sathrago i believe that the gear of corrupted players should be destroyed instead of dropped either way. Maybe give the person that kills them a broken version of it, that can be salvaged for ~20-50% of the resources needed to craft a replacement.

This would reduce the possibilities of people trying to game the system, further invigorate the economy as crafters, caravans and gatherers become involved into the crafting of a replacement as well as support the scarcity of resources as more resources are taken out of the economy periodically, which in turn drives player conflict in the world.

I like the idea but would counter that they can still trade or drop gear to circumvent the system. A better idea might be to bind the gear/weapons to the player once they reach a certain corruption level.

Or alternatively if you allow trading or dropping of gear then have it to where that gear breaks if dropped or traded when corruption reaches a certain point.

imo dropping items to the ground for others to loot opens itself up for all kind of stupid shenanigans. I don't think this should be a feature at all. Apart from some minor RP-applications, it doesn't even serve a purpose at all.

@DaddySteve This is a problem currently as well. You can't give people the opportunity to unequip the gear to dodge the gear death penalty (whether its in the form of gear destruction or gear drop), otherwise they'd simply equip LvL 1 gear, or unequip all gear before they die. This is quite easily circumvented though, simply
shadow flag the gear that was equipped upon murdering the green, making it impossible to trade and store, while being subject to the gear drop/destruction until the corruption that caused the flag was worked off.

or don't let corrupted players unequip gear until the corruption penalty has been worked off.

I agree with your last point just lock the gear on them until the corruption is worked off. I think that basically solves most of the counters to the system.

TortaSteve

I agree with OP on this topic though. We need to think of other penalties other than nerfing stats of people who engage in PVP. I am all for risk vs reward but when the playing field is skewed heavily against you due to stat dampening that feels like a little too much.

Dropping all inventory on death, binding gear to players when they become corrupted and or breaking/destroying gear when corrupted players die are some suggestions that could help with the penalty system but also allow the PVP player have a fighting chance to defend themselves.

Songcaller

Corrupted Players already can't trade, can't unequip items and can't stash items.

Corrupted Players have given no quarter to Non-Combatants - A PvP Player does not need to kill a Non-Combatant, it is an active choice. If you do not like the penalties then do not kill greens.

Noaani

DaddySteve wrote: »

I agree with your last point just lock the gear on them until the corruption is worked off. I think that basically solves most of the counters to the system.

This is the conclusion we came to over a year ago on this topic as well - it deals with almost all potential exploits to the system and as such is likely to be implemented in alpha or beta, after testing.

The only real exploit left is in relation to having a friend kill you to remove corruption - but the effectiveness of this is related to how easy it is to gain corruption, how much is lost per kill and what the corruption threshold is for items dropping when killed.

If it is likely that you will need to be killed multiple times in order to remove enough corruption as to not drop items, then this potential exploit will be somewhat worthless.

Mojottv

Gankez wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

I dunno what you guys are talking about, either way corruption and all its penalties can be cleared by friends jus killing you and giving back your gear, except for exp debt. So to counter corrupted players need to loose more exp when they die and thats it. You dont want too harsh corruption penalties to a point where its basically game breaking. If you kill one or two guys and can get to secluded spot to clear off corruption, fair play to you.. risk vs reward

the argument im making is it makes staying red an unplayable play style.. harsh penalties i can handle and gladly live with.. its a part of being red.. but nerfing stats means i HAVE to find a way around the penalties.. otherwise i cant play the game.. it doesnt prevent me from doing what i want .. it just annoys me and makes the game less fun.. but on your end. nothing changes

I think you misunderstanding what the intention is behind making a player red, its not like archage where u are a pirate n stuff and you can always be outlaw. In aoc being red is intended to be short time state, where ur objective is to get rid of corruption as soon as possible to escape any possible penalties like loosing exp or items. Its intended to allow kill someone without getting big penalties, but at the same to discourage murdering rampage as the you cant avoid harsh penalties.
Its not some sort of hardcore pvp mode or something. Hope this clarifies.

Mojottv

tbh i dont really like stat dampening on corrupted, stat dampening for people who have death exp dept is ok i think though

Noaani

Mojottv wrote: »

tbh i dont really like stat dampening on corrupted, stat dampening for people who have death exp dept is ok i think though

The reason I am a fan of it is that it is a way for the game itself to tell players that they shouldn't carry on killing players any more - they should probably start working on getting rid of some of that corruption.

Since the stat penalty associated with corruption only affects PvP combat and not PvE, and experience gain will see corruption removed, it kind of leaves players at a point eventually where literally all they would be able to do is PvE content that is the only real way they have of working off corruption without dying.

It's kind of the game gently suggesting to players that they should stop attacking players and do some PvE, and after a while it is the game yelling at players that they need to stop attacking players and do some PvE.

When you think about it, it really is an elegant system.

Irohnic

I think stat depletion is necessary to protect low level players from ganking. Without it a max level could gank low levels indefinitely, and even if you had full loot drop or item breakage or whatever on death, they could just use really crappy easily replaceable items and still body low levels, so there is really no risk on the part of the corrupted in such a scenario. The only protection low levels would have would be high-level friends. Some would argue in an mmorpg that's all the protection you should need, but I don't think that is the direction the devs want, otherwise they never would have bothered with a corruption system in the first place.

FuryBladeborne

Gankez wrote: »

the argument im making is it makes staying red an unplayable play style.. harsh penalties i can handle and gladly live with.. its a part of being red.. but nerfing stats means i HAVE to find a way around the penalties.. otherwise i cant play the game.. it doesnt prevent me from doing what i want .. it just annoys me and makes the game less fun.. but on your end. nothing changes

You can kill as many people as you want to. If you kill players that are reasonably around your level, you probably won't go red. If you hit an occasional player that won't fight back, you can just wait a short time to let the corruption go away and continue.

Steven has said that the intended balance is that players should be able to overcome up to 10 level difference by skilled play. 15 levels may be possible but very difficult. Attacked players are essentially paid to fight back due to half penalty for losing or gaining drops from the attacker for winning. Combine the potential for level difference to be overcome and being paid to fight should result in most players around your level will fight and not give you corruption.

Go nuts. PvP everywhere against players that stand a chance is virtually unrestricted by the game.

If your playstyle is to murder low levels endlessly, you are not being catered to; and, hopefully your stats will drop enough that those low levels will be able to solo you.

FuryBladeborne

Warth wrote: »

no, people would let their friends kill them and circumvent your entire tradeoff.

This is not going to be as easy as you made it sound. First, the friends will have to be around since travel time matters. Assuming they are, when the corrupted player dies, they respawn at random locations. Travel time for the friends matters again.

There is only a chance of dropping items which means the corrupted may not drop items when killed by friends; but, drop on a death after respawning at a random location. Note: I couldn't find a link for this, but I almost certain that corrupted players cannot choose to drop their inventory on the ground.

Also, your ignoring the penalties of such an attempted trade. The penalties for death and corruption are similar and both are removed by grinding mobs. So, friend kills corrupted to remove corruption resulting in experience debt that requires grinding mobs or suffering many of the same penalties as being corrupted.

Additionally, corrupted deaths accrue experience debt 4x faster. It sounds like you might be able to grind off corruption faster than the experience debt of dying while corrupted.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_death
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_corruption

Child Item