New Military Node Building: Theatre of Carnage

This post has been revised many times so I will try to consolidate and pair off the different types of ideas to make it easier for new people to get in on the conversation.

General Idea:
I would like for there to be an optional building that can be placed within military nodes, possibly economic nodes too, where players can sign up to fight in a blood sport against other players. These fights will either be solo vs solo or group vs group. This battle will be to the death and all gear will drop for the winning team to loot as a reward. Other players will have the ability to bet on who will win the fight while watching from the stands. The winning team will gain a percentage of all bets cast while also increasing their ranking within the Theatre of Carnage.

Just to be clear, this will not be an instanced arena, people will be able to freely walk into the stands and watch each fight though they will not be able to enter the pit itself.

Alternative to Full Loot: Instead of players dropping the gear they are wearing, the gear would instead drop to 0% durability and grant the winners the "repair cost" in materials for the gear broken in this manner. The amount can be changed as necessary.

Cosmetic Pieces:As another alternative loot system, players could drop special "blood-soaked" material tokens for one random piece of gear they were wearing. This token in addition to the ordinary materials required could be taken to a crafter to make a Theatre of Carnage variant of that equipment piece that is essentially a color or design variant of the original equipment. This alternative would mean each player only drops a single token rather than materials or their full loot.

Alternative Building Names:
Murder Pits
Colosseum

Matchmaking Mechanics:
These matches will have set times that can be signed up for spread throughout a day. A team will sign up for a time slot and a moderate amount of time before then the system will alert the players of each team to show up. If they do not accept the invite a new team is chosen. This repeats until a match is found or the time limit is reached. If a match is not made in time there will be no fight. Players that sign up for a timeslot should be heavily punished in rankings (or some other form) for skipping out on a fight they have signed up for.

Battle Mechanics:
The team sizes currently suggested are, 1v1, 2v2, 4v4, 8v8. Using 8 as the standard adventuring party I split down from there. I have no other real reason for the team sizes than that.

When a Team is defeated their gear will drop for the enemy players to loot but in a damaged state that will require repairing before it can be used.

There are no plans for any traps, mechanisms or terrain within the murder pits. a bowl of sand, broken teeth, and blood is my current suggestion.

Gambling Mechanics:
When a fight is announced other players can come to watch the fun and choose to bet on which team will win. (possibly a minor fee to enter)

My current suggestion is to have the amount you can bet be determined strictly by the system after calculating difference in ranking and item level of the two teams.

Taxes should be applied appropriately to generate funds for the Node itself.

Suggestion to circumvent being against gambling law: Any gold earned via this gambling system becomes an account bound currency that is used to pay taxes and various other system-based costs. Basically removing the ability to trade with players but still letting it be a useful resource.

Other Suggestions:

Instead of it always being a random enemy team we could also mix in elite monsters/npcs as part of the queue. These would have different rules than your standard pvp fights. Firstly, players would not drop their gear should they fail to beat the monster. If the npc wins the percentage that would normally go to a winning player will instead go to the Node.

Expanding on the previous idea, instead of an AI as an opponent we could instead use monster tokens or even animal husbandry to create monsters to fight with. This would work similar to the champion idea that was mentioned for the Battle Royale mayor choosing competition. You would have an npc or monster that can be geared out or augmented the higher your rankings.

When defeating either an npc monster or a player controlled monster they could drop a Race Token. A Race Token would be a consumable item that, for a period of time, grants the player a bonus to certificate drops or experience when hunting creatures of that specific monster's race. Additionally this token could possibly be used as part of a crafting recipe to create Trophy Stands. A Trophy Stand would be a taxidermized version of the monster slain that when placed in a house or other building, players would be able to gaze upon it and gain a small boon. This boon would give them a minor bonus to experience, certificates, or damage/defense against that monster's race for a decent amount of time. These trophies would work similarly to food buffs that have been talked about previously.

(If you have any suggestions post them below and ill add it to the list here)

Don't forget to like the post and share with your friends if you like these ideas!

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Comments

Noaani

daveywavey wrote: »

I've started a drinking game where I have to take a shot whenever I see Noaani pooh-pooh a suggestion as being not AoC or breaking a core aspect of the game. I spend most of the day pissed.....!

You could just take a drink every time someone that doesn't understand what this game is about makes a suggestion that would drastically alter the game away from what the develoeprs want it to be, but bring it more in line with a game the poster in question previously played.

You'd double your intake if you did that.

Sathrago

Noaani wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

I've started a drinking game where I have to take a shot whenever I see Noaani pooh-pooh a suggestion as being not AoC or breaking a core aspect of the game. I spend most of the day pissed.....!

You could just take a drink every time someone that doesn't understand what this game is about makes a suggestion that would drastically alter the game away from what the develoeprs want it to be, but bring it more in line with a game the poster in question previously played.

You'd double your intake if you did that.

For the love of god... ok im gonna do something real quick. ill use all the gloss i possibly can on my next sentence and maybe you will understand this time.

THIS SUGGESTION WOULD NOT IMPACT THE ENTIRE GAME LIKE YOU SAY IT WILL BECAUSE IT IS A NICHE BUILDING THAT CAN BE BUILT IN A MILITARY NODE AND ONLY ALLOWS FOR A SET AMOUNT OF MATCHES IN ANY GIVEN DAY.

Noaani

Sathrago wrote: »

THIS SUGGESTION WOULD NOT IMPACT THE ENTIRE GAME LIKE YOU SAY IT WILL BECAUSE IT IS A NICHE BUILDING THAT CAN BE BUILT IN A MILITARY NODE AND ONLY ALLOWS FOR A SET AMOUNT OF MATCHES IN ANY GIVEN DAY.

The game will already have an arena.

While I am not against the idea of a localized arena like this, the rewrads suggested go directly against the design intention of this game. Drop that aspect of it, and come up with a way to ensure that the gambling aspect of this can't be abused by RMT organizations, and I'm still on board.

daveywavey

Noaani wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

I've started a drinking game where I have to take a shot whenever I see Noaani pooh-pooh a suggestion as being not AoC or breaking a core aspect of the game. I spend most of the day pissed.....!

You could just take a drink every time someone that doesn't understand what this game is about makes a suggestion that would drastically alter the game away from what the develoeprs want it to be, but bring it more in line with a game the poster in question previously played.

You'd double your intake if you did that.

I'm counting that as a shot. Cheers!

Sathrago

While I am not against the idea of a localized arena like this, the rewrads suggested go directly against the design intention of this game. Drop that aspect of it, and come up with a way to ensure that the gambling aspect of this can't be abused by RMT organizations, and I'm still on board.

If dropping equipped gear was against the philosophy of this game then what the hell do you call corruption? This is not an idea that goes against the idea of a game built almost ENTIRELY around varying degrees of consensual pvp. Mine is just another degree.

Noaani

Sathrago wrote: »

While I am not against the idea of a localized arena like this, the rewrads suggested go directly against the design intention of this game. Drop that aspect of it, and come up with a way to ensure that the gambling aspect of this can't be abused by RMT organizations, and I'm still on board.

If dropping equipped gear was against the philosophy of this game then what the hell do you call corruption? This is not an idea that goes against the idea of a game built almost ENTIRELY around varying degrees of consensual pvp. Mine is just another degree.

You can't gear up via corruption drops.

They are far too rare, and they are far too random.

Sathrago

... What? Then are you saying bounty hunters go against the spirit of the game since they will be the ones focused on hunting down corrupted players?

Not to mention this arena can't just be walked into without gear, its a fight to the death were the winner takes all. You are incentivized to use the best gear possible to increase your chances of winning vs your opponents. Like any other activity in the game, especially when compared to corruption, there is a risk/reward structure that you are willingly participating in. I still can't believe you cannot understand this.

daveywavey

Sathrago wrote: »

Like any system it requires fine-tuning and more than me just throwing words down in the forums to get it to be the most balanced thing in existence. This stuff takes time and testing. All im saying is that this sort of building/system would be very cool to have as an addition to the game.

Let's just reiterate this point. Sathrago isn't saying that he's got all the answers or that it absolutely has to be this exact way. It's just the beginnings of an idea, which is how all creations start off.

Now, I don't presume to know what the game designers have in mind, but there's still plenty of time left before release, and there's still plenty of time for them to discuss and implement various new ideas - some of which we may like, and some of which we may not. Simply saying "that's not what this game is" doesn't and shouldn't affect a suggestion thread. And, unless you're on the Intrepid game design team (which you very well could be...), I don't think that any of us can put ourselves into the position where we're trying to be the Intrepid spokesperson, able to shut down ideas simply because they don't fit what we've read/watched so far, for a game that is still in development.

Noaani

Sathrago wrote: »

... What? Then are you saying bounty hunters go against the spirit of the game since they will be the ones focused on hunting down corrupted players?

No, I'm saying bounty hunters are not going to expect to gear up from killing corrupt players.

Not every corrupt player is going to drop an item, and most people that gain corruption regularly are likely going to hold on to random trash items in their inventory that have as much of a chance of dropping as any useful item they may be using.

Sathrago

Noaani wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

... What? Then are you saying bounty hunters go against the spirit of the game since they will be the ones focused on hunting down corrupted players?

No, I'm saying bounty hunters are not going to expect to gear up from killing corrupt players.

Not every corrupt player is going to drop an item, and most people that gain corruption regularly are likely going to hold on to random trash items in their inventory that have as much of a chance of dropping as any useful item they may be using.

Why wouldn't Bounty hunters be able to gear up from this? If thats your WHOLE issue with the idea just make the arena gear have the same percentage chance to trash as if the player was corrupted. There now you cant complain anymore.

Demidreamer

I've been daydreaming about a building like this too, just along different lines. I was more inclined to call the building a collosseum instead. Rather than just a plain arena, which i think AoC already had intentions of doing, i would rather see some type of sport. I guess i've been envisioning the Mayan sport Pok-ta-Pok with an AoC flare. Players would initially get the basic facility which would be created by the players. How?

Create a various structures/obstacles that the Collosseum players/or(highest military official) could buy with resources gathered in the world. Collosseums are subject to change or stay the same if desired. Encouraging players to gather more materials in the open world to bring back to change their local collosseum.

Also, I would like to add that the collosseum games travels from one military node to another(that has a collosseum) on a weekly basis further encouraging players to ever be migrating across the whole world of Verra. This would further encourage players travel and be active in the open world maybe even outside of their comfort zone.

As for rewards. The fame is good enough for me and would be happy just to play.

Should there be a need for a reward; then there should be risk also.
-say if you lose your match should all of the losing team take exp. debt? should just the leader*(possably in a ranked game)? should just the weakest player take and exp debt?(this exp debt would again force players into the open world grind off again)
-what would be an equal reward and how should such reward be divided amongst the winners? maybe experience gain and if you should have no exp debt, then a reward?

Furthermore, what would a collosseum be without an audience not only would the players be able to enjoy the game but the local population could come watch, wager bets, insult, cheer, heckle, enter a game etc.

*In Aztec culture I read that the leader would lose his life after losing a game.
I also remember being taught in school that pretty much all the players were subject to death for a poor performance. not sure how true this last one is..

Noaani

Sathrago wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

... What? Then are you saying bounty hunters go against the spirit of the game since they will be the ones focused on hunting down corrupted players?

No, I'm saying bounty hunters are not going to expect to gear up from killing corrupt players.

Not every corrupt player is going to drop an item, and most people that gain corruption regularly are likely going to hold on to random trash items in their inventory that have as much of a chance of dropping as any useful item they may be using.

Why wouldn't Bounty hunters be able to gear up from this? If thats your WHOLE issue with the idea just make the arena gear have the same percentage chance to trash as if the player was corrupted. There now you cant complain anymore.

That is getting close.

You also have the fact that with bounty hunters, the bulk of the corrupt players they kill won't drop any items at all, and finding and killing a corrupt player for a bounty hunter will be significantly less frequent than a player killing another in an arena.

The thing is, that very rare item that drops is the incentive to get these players out in the open world. Even if a bounty hunter only sees one such item a week (which is probably only slightly unrealistic, I would assume 2 - 3 would be average for an active bounty hunter), that is still an incentive.

If you allow that same number of items to be in the arena, then the incentive for that player to be out in the open world while the arena is running is gone - and open world should always have the incentive over instances.

So, if a bounty hunter out in the open world for 15 hours a week sees 3 items drop in that week, that means they see an item every 5 hours.

Since this arena needs to be less of an incentive than being out in the open world, that means one item every 10 hours of fighting. If a fight takes 15 minutes, that means one item every 40 fights.

Now, obviously I may be out with my assumptions on how often a bounty hunter will see items drop - that is to be expected with blind assumptions. If it turns out that they see items drop at twice that rate on average, then the items in the arena should drop at twice the rate listed.

However, this arena should not result in participants seeing higher return for time spent than a bounty hunter in the open world would expect to see.

Sathrago

Noaani wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

... What? Then are you saying bounty hunters go against the spirit of the game since they will be the ones focused on hunting down corrupted players?

No, I'm saying bounty hunters are not going to expect to gear up from killing corrupt players.

Not every corrupt player is going to drop an item, and most people that gain corruption regularly are likely going to hold on to random trash items in their inventory that have as much of a chance of dropping as any useful item they may be using.

Why wouldn't Bounty hunters be able to gear up from this? If thats your WHOLE issue with the idea just make the arena gear have the same percentage chance to trash as if the player was corrupted. There now you cant complain anymore.

That is getting close.

You also have the fact that with bounty hunters, the bulk of the corrupt players they kill won't drop any items at all, and finding and killing a corrupt player for a bounty hunter will be significantly less frequent than a player killing another in an arena.

The thing is, that very rare item that drops is the incentive to get these players out in the open world. Even if a bounty hunter only sees one such item a week (which is probably only slightly unrealistic, I would assume 2 - 3 would be average for an active bounty hunter), that is still an incentive.

If you allow that same number of items to be in the arena, then the incentive for that player to be out in the open world while the arena is running is gone - and open world should always have the incentive over instances.

So, if a bounty hunter out in the open world for 15 hours a week sees 3 items drop in that week, that means they see an item every 5 hours.

Since this arena needs to be less of an incentive than being out in the open world, that means one item every 10 hours of fighting. If a fight takes 15 minutes, that means one item every 40 fights.

Now, obviously I may be out with my assumptions on how often a bounty hunter will see items drop - that is to be expected with blind assumptions. If it turns out that they see items drop at twice that rate on average, then the items in the arena should drop at twice the rate listed.

However, this arena should not result in participants seeing higher return for time spent than a bounty hunter in the open world would expect to see.

Already addressed the issue of "farming" these arenas. The way I have suggested it to be is a single arena with set match times that cycle through the different types of fights. The gear dropping is just a bonus the real objective here is the thrill of structured pvp in front of many people betting for or against your team.

You go on paragraph after paragraph here explaining how bounty hunting will not be as profitable but then at the end say this is only an assumption? If its only an assumption and not concrete that means there are ways to finetune it before it is fully released. This means your argument holds no weight whatsoever. This is literally your make-believe dad is stronger than my make-believe dad. Jesus.

Noaani

Sathrago wrote: »

You go on paragraph after paragraph here explaining how bounty hunting will not be as profitable but then at the end say this is only an assumption? If its only an assumption and not concrete that means there are ways to finetune it before it is fully released. This means your argument holds no weight whatsoever. This is literally your make-believe dad is stronger than my make-believe dad. Jesus.

Of course it is only an assumption. That is an inherent issue with using actual numbers. We don't know enough about the game to talk about literally anything using numbers - all numbers are able to do is assist in illustrating concepts and ideas that we are talking about - and concepts and ideas are all we are able to talk about.

The numbers given were there to illustrate to you what I would consider an acceptable drop rate - and to also illustrate to you exactly how that drop rate should - in my opinion - tie in to the only thing that should have an impact on it - the expected drop rate of items when killing corrupt players.

Farming an arena like this isn't the issue I am talking about. If it were farmable, the concept would be so far from reality that I wouldn't have even bothered commenting on it (I don't comment on things that I consider too far from the concept of the game, or on things that I consider perfectly fine, but that I am not personally overly enthused about).

My concern isn't about players farming it to get their gear, it is about it being more rewarding than open world PvP could be. It should not offer more rewards per hour than bounty hunting, even if players can only participate in it for 15 minutes a day.

Voidwalkers

Will always vote for a betting-enabled arena.

Not sure if the full-loot part is necessary though, as most ppl (except the most wealthy or confident players) would just bring the most cost-efficient gear , which probably won't provide much progression for the winner.

Well the winner can always sell the loot though ...

Letting the winner take a cut of the betting pool might also be a good idea. This could motivate ppl to participate, and incentivize them to be more obsessed with winning, therefore encouraging them to take bigger risks and bring higher tier gear into the arena (more lootz).

Bricktop

Demidreamer wrote: »

I've been daydreaming about a building like this too, just along different lines. I was more inclined to call the building a collosseum instead. Rather than just a plain arena, which i think AoC already had intentions of doing, i would rather see some type of sport. I guess i've been envisioning the Mayan sport Pok-ta-Pok with an AoC flare. Players would initially get the basic facility which would be created by the players. How?

Create a various structures/obstacles that the Collosseum players/or(highest military official) could buy with resources gathered in the world. Collosseums are subject to change or stay the same if desired. Encouraging players to gather more materials in the open world to bring back to change their local collosseum.

Also, I would like to add that the collosseum games travels from one military node to another(that has a collosseum) on a weekly basis further encouraging players to ever be migrating across the whole world of Verra. This would further encourage players travel and be active in the open world maybe even outside of their comfort zone.

As for rewards. The fame is good enough for me and would be happy just to play.

Should there be a need for a reward; then there should be risk also.
-say if you lose your match should all of the losing team take exp. debt? should just the leader*(possably in a ranked game)? should just the weakest player take and exp debt?(this exp debt would again force players into the open world grind off again)
-what would be an equal reward and how should such reward be divided amongst the winners? maybe experience gain and if you should have no exp debt, then a reward?

Furthermore, what would a collosseum be without an audience not only would the players be able to enjoy the game but the local population could come watch, wager bets, insult, cheer, heckle, enter a game etc.

*In Aztec culture I read that the leader would lose his life after losing a game.
I also remember being taught in school that pretty much all the players were subject to death for a poor performance. not sure how true this last one is..

Stuff like this would make the game very interesting. Imagine traveling a ways away from your home node to a military node to watch the fights at the coliseum that only take place a few times every month. People would train for it and teams would develop strategy and you could even introduce some 20v20 group stuff or something. People could make names for themselves as really good PvPers in the coliseum.

Really cool ideas in this thread. Love the idea demi.

DeadlyDave

Killing a corrupted is like being a kind bully.
I like the idea of arenas were you get to drop your own gear.
Betting system is totally floored as Noaani pointed out.

Sathrago

Deadly Dave wrote: »

Killing a corrupted is like being a kind bully.
I like the idea of arenas were you get to drop your own gear.
Betting system is totally floored as Noaani pointed out.

Betting system is floored out? What do you mean by that?

daveywavey

Sathrago wrote: »

"Betting system is totally *flawed* as Noaani pointed out."

Betting system is floored out? What do you mean by that?

Appears to just be a typo - have corrected for you

Sathrago

daveywavey wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

"Betting system is totally *flawed* as Noaani pointed out."

Betting system is floored out? What do you mean by that?

Appears to just be a typo - have corrected for you

Thanks.

Now, I honestly don't see why the gambling part of the suggestion is flawed. Perhaps I don't have specific values and exact mechanics but that is what can be worked on. The idea of having an arena where the hardcore players go to kill each other while other players can watch the blood sport and bet on who will win. That's what I want feedback on.

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