Lack of Info on Classes/Augments?

So first a disclaimer, this is my very first game I have watched from an alpha stage being developed. I have been apart of betas but nothing in alpha.

I wanted to see what everyone's opinion was on the current situation with the lack of information concerning the classes. We still don't have specifics on 4 base classes, and have virtually nothing on the 64 advanced classes. From my perspective I feel like we are being kept in the shadows on that. I keep telling myself the game is in alpha but I also look at the amount of time we have had the famous 64 class chart (late 2017 was when it was published) and I think to myself how do we not have more on this? To be clear, I am not asking for footage or even to be fully implemented at this point. It would have been nice to had at this point what abilities we could see for the base classes, much like the info graphics we have already for tank and cleric, and what augments are going to be available per second archetype.

I know during some podcast or interview Steven mentioned he wants there to be a mystery/discovery element to finding out the exact abilities and you can keep that mystery/discovery element while disclosing more info. What I would like to see if you pick warrior for your base classes here are some abilities you could expect and if you pick mage you will have access to teleportation, fire, frost, and electric augments (Steve has somewhat confirmed the mage's secondary archetype augments however this still leaves 7 other archetypes to be relieved). Doesn't have to be as descriptive as Steven's example of combining a teleportation augment with the warrior's dash will give you x.

Given the time frame of alphas 1 & 2 and what is expected to be in each one I think it is fair to say this is coming soon (other 4 base classes will be released prior to alpha 1 and alpha 2 is supposed to have all the secondary archetypes - see "Release Schedule" on Ashes of Creation wiki). Just seems like there after all this time we should have more information on the base classes and augments at this point. Am I expecting too much for a game in alpha? Should this info be available now? Curious as to everyone's thoughts on this.

Thanks for reading!

Comments

  • DamoklesDamokles Member
    edited October 14
    *twitches slightly on the ground*
    tenor.gif?itemid=3581216

    B.... B-B-Bard... Bard Gameplay.
    Please, dear god give me some Bard gameplay!

    tenor.gif?itemid=7963715

    KkvMmA5.png
  • Obviously, I'd like to see more, but it'll come when they're ready to show it.
  • Damokles wrote: »
    Snip

    I'm quite interested to see the bard abilities myself. I think they will be vital and carry fights.

  • Bricktop wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    Snip

    I'm quite interested to see the bard abilities myself. I think they will be vital and carry fights.

    I want to try a Bard/Tank. I'm interested in seeing how the Tanky augments affect the support skills.
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    They are still playing around with their combat system and figuring out the ability mechanics. It's only when they are sure on the ability mechanics they want to use that they will use them to create the class abilities. This is why you haven't seen a fleshed out ability list as they are focused on making a variety of abilities that use different mechanics to see how they perform. This also gives them time to think about how they can use the different mechanics they are create interesting abilities.
    smallerLizard.jpg
  • BricktopBricktop Member
    edited October 14
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    Snip

    I'm quite interested to see the bard abilities myself. I think they will be vital and carry fights.

    I want to try a Bard/Tank. I'm interested in seeing how the Tanky augments affect the support skills.

    My thoughts on how bard augments will work is that they will modify the buffs the bard gives based on the secondary class. So in @daveywavey example I think a Bard+tank could end up focusing on damage mitigation buffs. Bard+Fighter, Bard+Ranger, and Bard+rogue would be attack speed, crit chance, evasion and damage buffs or something. Bard+mage could be casting speed and magic damage buffs.

    Obviously I could be way way off the money here but it might be cool if it worked that way.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    Damokles wrote: »
    *twitches slightly on the ground*
    tenor.gif?itemid=3581216

    B.... B-B-Bard... Bard Gameplay.
    Please, dear god give me some Bard gameplay!

    tenor.gif?itemid=7963715

    Summoner first
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • Nagash wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    *twitches slightly on the ground*
    tenor.gif?itemid=3581216

    B.... B-B-Bard... Bard Gameplay.
    Please, dear god give me some Bard gameplay!

    tenor.gif?itemid=7963715

    Summoner first

    Summoner/Cleric, by any chance?
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    *twitches slightly on the ground*
    tenor.gif?itemid=3581216

    B.... B-B-Bard... Bard Gameplay.
    Please, dear god give me some Bard gameplay!

    tenor.gif?itemid=7963715

    Summoner first

    Summoner/Cleric, by any chance?

    dc90295b3a94aff2899e9e951aeae614.gif
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • So first a disclaimer, this is my very first game I have watched from an alpha stage being developed. I have been apart of betas but nothing in alpha.

    I wanted to see what everyone's opinion was on the current situation with the lack of information concerning the classes. We still don't have specifics on 4 base classes, and have virtually nothing on the 64 advanced classes. From my perspective I feel like we are being kept in the shadows on that. I keep telling myself the game is in alpha but I also look at the amount of time we have had the famous 64 class chart (late 2017 was when it was published) and I think to myself how do we not have more on this? To be clear, I am not asking for footage or even to be fully implemented at this point. It would have been nice to had at this point what abilities we could see for the base classes, much like the info graphics we have already for tank and cleric, and what augments are going to be available per second archetype.

    I know during some podcast or interview Steven mentioned he wants there to be a mystery/discovery element to finding out the exact abilities and you can keep that mystery/discovery element while disclosing more info. What I would like to see if you pick warrior for your base classes here are some abilities you could expect and if you pick mage you will have access to teleportation, fire, frost, and electric augments (Steve has somewhat confirmed the mage's secondary archetype augments however this still leaves 7 other archetypes to be relieved). Doesn't have to be as descriptive as Steven's example of combining a teleportation augment with the warrior's dash will give you x.

    Given the time frame of alphas 1 & 2 and what is expected to be in each one I think it is fair to say this is coming soon (other 4 base classes will be released prior to alpha 1 and alpha 2 is supposed to have all the secondary archetypes - see "Release Schedule" on Ashes of Creation wiki). Just seems like there after all this time we should have more information on the base classes and augments at this point. Am I expecting too much for a game in alpha? Should this info be available now? Curious as to everyone's thoughts on this.

    Thanks for reading!

    Releasing class info is one of the best ways the develoeprs have of building hype around a game.

    As such, I wouldn't expect to see massive info dumps on classes until the game goes in to beta, at the earliest.
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited October 17
    So first a disclaimer, this is my very first game I have watched from an alpha stage being developed. I have been apart of betas but nothing in alpha.

    I wanted to see what everyone's opinion was on the current situation with the lack of information concerning the classes.
    Thanks for reading!

    My personal impression is that their not putting much effort into building the classes yet. Their monthly development updates have almost never had anything to do with this. Also, they have only announced the use of Archetypes (these are not classes) in the upcoming Alpha 1 and Castle Siege testing.
  • Hiya! We definitely want to share more details on what you can expect for the archetypes you'll be playtesting during Alpha One, so we can gather your feedback for our design team on the specifics they'd like you to help test!

    We'll be sure to keep you posted in all our usual news places, like our website and here on the forums and Discord, so keep an eye out for more details on that front as we get closer to upcoming testing! <3
    3ztrsitvhj3s.gif
  • Hiya! We definitely want to share more details on what you can expect for the archetypes you'll be playtesting during Alpha One, so we can gather your feedback for our design team on the specifics they'd like you to help test!

    We'll be sure to keep you posted in all our usual news places, like our website and here on the forums and Discord, so keep an eye out for more details on that front as we get closer to upcoming testing! <3

    Hittin us with that sweet sweet info.

    tumblr_nsp6zs4pyS1s3lkzpo1_500.gif
  • daveywavey wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    Snip

    I'm quite interested to see the bard abilities myself. I think they will be vital and carry fights.

    I want to try a Bard/Tank. I'm interested in seeing how the Tanky augments affect the support skills.

    Bard/tanks will have access to a big drum set to surround themselves and act as armour. They will dictate the rhythm of the fight through their sick beats and pull aggro with their kazoo. :smiley:
  • Percimes wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    I want to try a Bard/Tank. I'm interested in seeing how the Tanky augments affect the support skills.

    Bard/tanks will have access to a big drum set to surround themselves and act as armour. They will dictate the rhythm of the fight through their sick beats and pull aggro with their kazoo. :smiley:

    Ohhhhh, PLEASE be right.....! :D
  • mrwafflesmrwaffles Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    I love numbers so I wanted to post something I thought about a while ago.

    Variables:
    (a) 8 - Archetypes
    (b) 10 - Minimum Skills per archetype
    (c) 8 - classes per Primary archetype
    (d) 4 - schools per class

    Equation: a*b*c*d = number of combinations per each primary archetype

    What I'm saying is thats 20,480 combinations with the current proposed 8 Archetypes. This also doesn't take into account weapon, racial, or religious augments. I also took the floor with the above variables, as i think they'll have more then 10 skills (ie passives and such). What's I'm saying is daddy wants to know more about the augments too.

    giphy.gif

    E6qgOoi.png
  • RavudhaRavudha Member
    edited October 18
    mrwaffles wrote: »
    I love numbers so I wanted to post something I thought about a while ago.

    Variables:
    (a) 8 - Archetypes
    (b) 10 - Minimum Skills per archetype
    (c) 8 - classes per Primary archetype
    (d) 4 - schools per class

    Equation: a*b*c*d = number of combinations per each primary archetype

    What I'm saying is thats 20,480 combinations with the current proposed 8 Archetypes. This also doesn't take into account weapon, racial, or religious augments. I also took the floor with the above variables, as i think they'll have more then 10 skills (ie passives and such). What's I'm saying is daddy wants to know more about the augments too.

    giphy.gif

    I think most of those 20k combinations will be duplicates though. An elemental Mage augment might make 50 different skills just add fire damage.
  • So, update on this since the creative director's letter...

    Since the other 4 base classes were going to be released with/before alpha 1 we can hopefully see more information on that in December.

    For the augments/64 classes/secondary archetypes, however you want to phrase it, we are looking like having more info on this in July/August of next year? Maybe June at the earliest? With the playable alpha 1 ending in May I think that time frame is reasonable if they are prompt going into alpha 2 (assuming they end alpha 1 and go straight into alpha 2).
  • Not too worried, augments will get added when they get added.
  • AmmaAmma Member
    I think we can be glad if alpha 2 will be "late fall" 2021. I am sure that they will need some time to look into all the data from alpha 1, analyse it for some time and then they will need some months to change everything that is not working as intended. And we shouldnt forget, that at the same time they will go on with other stuff that is still not done at the game, so i dont think that anyone should expect July for alpha 2.
  • Amma wrote: »
    I think we can be glad if alpha 2 will be "late fall" 2021. I am sure that they will need some time to look into all the data from alpha 1, analyse it for some time and then they will need some months to change everything that is not working as intended. And we shouldnt forget, that at the same time they will go on with other stuff that is still not done at the game, so i dont think that anyone should expect July for alpha 2.

    The more I think about it the more I think you are correct on this...This game really is another 2 years out from being released.
  • Amma wrote: »
    This game really is another 2 years out from being released.

    minimum. AoC is the Star Citizen of the traditional MMOs.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    Ehrgeiz wrote: »
    Amma wrote: »
    This game really is another 2 years out from being released.

    minimum. AoC is the Star Citizen of the traditional MMOs.

    you do know how long MMOs take to make?
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • Ravudha wrote: »
    mrwaffles wrote: »
    I love numbers so I wanted to post something I thought about a while ago.

    Variables:
    (a) 8 - Archetypes
    (b) 10 - Minimum Skills per archetype
    (c) 8 - classes per Primary archetype
    (d) 4 - schools per class

    Equation: a*b*c*d = number of combinations per each primary archetype

    What I'm saying is thats 20,480 combinations with the current proposed 8 Archetypes. This also doesn't take into account weapon, racial, or religious augments. I also took the floor with the above variables, as i think they'll have more then 10 skills (ie passives and such). What's I'm saying is daddy wants to know more about the augments too.

    giphy.gif

    I think most of those 20k combinations will be duplicates though. An elemental Mage augment might make 50 different skills just add fire damage.

    Where does the 4 schools come from?. I recall in an interview with Steven, this was brought up. He mentioned when a warrior picks mage as a secondary class, they will get to pick from 3 schools. Teleportation, elemental damage and i can't recall the last one. Though i might completely remember wrong
  • Nagash wrote: »
    Ehrgeiz wrote: »
    Amma wrote: »
    This game really is another 2 years out from being released.

    minimum. AoC is the Star Citizen of the traditional MMOs.

    you do know how long MMOs take to make?

    I have seen 5 years mentioned, I have seen 4-6 years mentioned as well. Depending upon when you consider real development actually began, we are already 4-5 years in. Going back to my original post/point, it is surprising that we don't have more information on one of the main concepts of the game when other MMO's have been completed by this time. SWTOR took 5 years for reference. And to be clear, this is all I am asking for is information. I am not asking for the game to be done, or in beta, talking strictly about information pertaining to classes/augments and other 4 base classes that haven't been shown. I will mention again here, info graphics on the other 4 base archetypes would be nice and a general idea of the schools of augments available for the secondary archetypes would be nice as well.
  • The PRIMARY appeal that brought me to Ashes of Creation was specifically the 64 class options. More than the Node things, the crafting, the graphics and how the questing & siege system works.

    It was the promise of 64 classes. I loved how the Base Class and Secondary Class determine what your true Archetype really is. It's so unique and clever and something I've always wanted in a game.

    So ANY and ALL info they release on the Class-combos; I eat it up.

    I would definitely love for the developers to release info on a regular bases about how that it coming along.
    17102045741am-vaoep.png

    “That is not dead which can eternal lie,
    And with strange aeons even death may die.”

    -HPL
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