nuro wrote: » If you are equal in level / power , then you really don't have much of an excuse to not fight back. Its really not bullying if its equal in that sense and also numbers wise.
Noaani wrote: » The thing I think people are forgetting is - you always have a choice as to whether or not you gain corruption. If you attack someone and they don't fight back, you can always break off the fight. You only gain corruption when you kill the player.
daveywavey wrote: » I'm a petty, petty, man. If I can punish you even slightly, it's your own fault! Hahahahaha!
Bricktop wrote: » The devs should really focus on making sure there is actually incentive for people to flag. Corruption is there to prevent griefing/camping not PvP altogether.
Percimes wrote: » If the debuffs are done at the end of my corpse run anyway, my ganker will get corruption. I'll work on gaining back my xp while he works on his corruption, we both lose.
Bricktop wrote: » Percimes wrote: » If the debuffs are done at the end of my corpse run anyway, my ganker will get corruption. I'll work on gaining back my xp while he works on his corruption, we both lose. I actually can't find more information on this right now, but I would be pretty surprised if there was any kind of corpse running. When you die I'm guessing there will be a few buttons like "To nearest town" "To Guild Hall "To Guild Castle" etc and your character will respawn there with no run back to a corpse.
Atama wrote: » Bricktop wrote: » Percimes wrote: » If the debuffs are done at the end of my corpse run anyway, my ganker will get corruption. I'll work on gaining back my xp while he works on his corruption, we both lose. I actually can't find more information on this right now, but I would be pretty surprised if there was any kind of corpse running. When you die I'm guessing there will be a few buttons like "To nearest town" "To Guild Hall "To Guild Castle" etc and your character will respawn there with no run back to a corpse. I don't believe there will be a corpse run either, but I also don't believe there is a bind point either. I believe you will respawn at a random location. This came up when people were proposing potential abuses of the corruption system; for example, you go red and end up corrupt so a buddy kills you and grabs your dropped items to give back to you, with the death lowering the amount of corruption you have. But since you respawn in a random spot, it's really inconvenient to meet up with your buddy to continue the process (since removing corruption might require multiple deaths). Especially with the lack of fast travel in the game. That's all I can recall. The developers have definitely made it clear that they want death to be impactful, more than you expect from most modern MMORPGs where it is a minor inconvenience at worst, and sometimes death is such a small impact that you suicide as a free teleport or to remove a combat flag or otherwise use it as a tool. They want it to sting. So I wouldn't be shocked if an equivalence to a corpse run becomes a thing, but I haven't read that it will be.
Percimes wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » I'm a petty, petty, man. If I can punish you even slightly, it's your own fault! Hahahahaha! Would you go so far as to destroy the resources you're carrying while you're being killed to deny them any reward?
maouw wrote: » @nuro What's wrong with not wanting to fight all the time?
nuro wrote: » Nothing is wrong with not wanting to fight all the time, just dont bitch about it in ashes of creation.
daveywavey wrote: » nuro wrote: » Nothing is wrong with not wanting to fight all the time, just dont bitch about it in ashes of creation. Similarly, this is a game where PK'ers are punished for attacking and killing non-combatants. Was your response to the OP also "Don't bitch about it"?
daveywavey wrote: » This thread isn't about whether or not the game will be open world PvP. This thread was started to ask for the "PK against non-combatants penalty" to be removed. Nobody's asking for open world PvP to be removed.
nuro wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » This thread isn't about whether or not the game will be open world PvP. This thread was started to ask for the "PK against non-combatants penalty" to be removed. Nobody's asking for open world PvP to be removed. You were responding to me not the OP. Most people know that PK penalties are needed.. I never advocated for them to be removed. thats a straw man if I ever heard one. I think theres a solution that doesnt make the game feel like an "opt in" system, and that makes playing as a red player very risky but also fun.
nuro wrote: » The fact that this is an open world pvp game will stay the same.
Sathrago wrote: » Noaani wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » nuro wrote: » If you are equal in level / power , then you really don't have much of an excuse to not fight back. Its really not bullying if its equal in that sense and also numbers wise. I'm very much looking forward to the group PvP in the game. I absolutely suck at 1v1, and will likely lose against anyone, regardless of level. So, I won't be bothering to fight back. If someone attacks me, then they're turning red, and a Bounty Hunter's coming for them. That's the only way I'm getting revenge on them. So, I lose a few more resources by doing it - sob sob sob. There are a lot of people that will purposely not fight back so that any would be attacker needs to gain corruption in order to get the kill. A lot of people will make the split second decision based on what they are carrying as well - they may well have a good chance of winning the fight, but decide to let the play gain that corruption, then come back in a few minutes and kill their assailant who then gets 4 times the death penalty. The thing I think people are forgetting is - you always have a choice as to whether or not you gain corruption. If you attack someone and they don't fight back, you can always break off the fight. You only gain corruption when you kill the player. My two worries with corruption pvp are this. Non-combatants gain a lot of detriments when they die, the stat, loot chance, hp/mana, and exp tax are really rough. I don't see myself ever wanting to die as a non-combatant even if it means giving someone corruption. Especially if they are a group of players, only one person will get corruption even though they were all attacking you. I wish corruption was gained upon attacking a non-combatant. Not enough to turn you red but enough that it stacks up. You can choose to stop fighting but if you continuously attack green players that little bit of corruption will stack up and make you red.
Noaani wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » nuro wrote: » If you are equal in level / power , then you really don't have much of an excuse to not fight back. Its really not bullying if its equal in that sense and also numbers wise. I'm very much looking forward to the group PvP in the game. I absolutely suck at 1v1, and will likely lose against anyone, regardless of level. So, I won't be bothering to fight back. If someone attacks me, then they're turning red, and a Bounty Hunter's coming for them. That's the only way I'm getting revenge on them. So, I lose a few more resources by doing it - sob sob sob. There are a lot of people that will purposely not fight back so that any would be attacker needs to gain corruption in order to get the kill. A lot of people will make the split second decision based on what they are carrying as well - they may well have a good chance of winning the fight, but decide to let the play gain that corruption, then come back in a few minutes and kill their assailant who then gets 4 times the death penalty. The thing I think people are forgetting is - you always have a choice as to whether or not you gain corruption. If you attack someone and they don't fight back, you can always break off the fight. You only gain corruption when you kill the player.
daveywavey wrote: » nuro wrote: » If you are equal in level / power , then you really don't have much of an excuse to not fight back. Its really not bullying if its equal in that sense and also numbers wise. I'm very much looking forward to the group PvP in the game. I absolutely suck at 1v1, and will likely lose against anyone, regardless of level. So, I won't be bothering to fight back. If someone attacks me, then they're turning red, and a Bounty Hunter's coming for them. That's the only way I'm getting revenge on them. So, I lose a few more resources by doing it - sob sob sob.
Noaani wrote: » Sathrago wrote: » Noaani wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » nuro wrote: » If you are equal in level / power , then you really don't have much of an excuse to not fight back. Its really not bullying if its equal in that sense and also numbers wise. I'm very much looking forward to the group PvP in the game. I absolutely suck at 1v1, and will likely lose against anyone, regardless of level. So, I won't be bothering to fight back. If someone attacks me, then they're turning red, and a Bounty Hunter's coming for them. That's the only way I'm getting revenge on them. So, I lose a few more resources by doing it - sob sob sob. There are a lot of people that will purposely not fight back so that any would be attacker needs to gain corruption in order to get the kill. A lot of people will make the split second decision based on what they are carrying as well - they may well have a good chance of winning the fight, but decide to let the play gain that corruption, then come back in a few minutes and kill their assailant who then gets 4 times the death penalty. The thing I think people are forgetting is - you always have a choice as to whether or not you gain corruption. If you attack someone and they don't fight back, you can always break off the fight. You only gain corruption when you kill the player. My two worries with corruption pvp are this. Non-combatants gain a lot of detriments when they die, the stat, loot chance, hp/mana, and exp tax are really rough. I don't see myself ever wanting to die as a non-combatant even if it means giving someone corruption. Especially if they are a group of players, only one person will get corruption even though they were all attacking you. I wish corruption was gained upon attacking a non-combatant. Not enough to turn you red but enough that it stacks up. You can choose to stop fighting but if you continuously attack green players that little bit of corruption will stack up and make you red. While I get what you are saying, this causes mechanical errors. If attacking a player generates corruption, that player that was attacked can't flag as a combatant by fighting back - as you don't flag as a combatant for fighting a player that has corruption. This would require a complete redesign of the flagging system. Perhaps allow that player that was attacked and not killed a period of time in which they can report the attack to a guard, and upon that report, the player gains that small amount of corruption. It's just a random thought at this stage (as I agree that attacking players at random should have potential to generate corruption), and I am sure it will have issues with it, but the premise is promising, imo.
Bricktop wrote: » Noaani wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » nuro wrote: » If you are equal in level / power , then you really don't have much of an excuse to not fight back. Its really not bullying if its equal in that sense and also numbers wise. I'm very much looking forward to the group PvP in the game. I absolutely suck at 1v1, and will likely lose against anyone, regardless of level. So, I won't be bothering to fight back. If someone attacks me, then they're turning red, and a Bounty Hunter's coming for them. That's the only way I'm getting revenge on them. So, I lose a few more resources by doing it - sob sob sob. There are a lot of people that will purposely not fight back so that any would be attacker needs to gain corruption in order to get the kill. A lot of people will make the split second decision based on what they are carrying as well - they may well have a good chance of winning the fight, but decide to let the play gain that corruption, then come back in a few minutes and kill their assailant who then gets 4 times the death penalty. The thing I think people are forgetting is - you always have a choice as to whether or not you gain corruption. If you attack someone and they don't fight back, you can always break off the fight. You only gain corruption when you kill the player. Lol well let's hope it doesn't become the meta game for most people to just stand still and let people go red on them. If the devs don't incentivize dying as a flagged player enough and everybody is just standing there letting people go red on them I would be worried about the health of the game. The devs should really focus on making sure there is actually incentive for people to flag. Corruption is there to prevent griefing/camping not PvP altogether. And let's also hope it takes more than "a few minutes" to run back to an area you were in when you get killed. Since there are no fast travels and the world is massive there shouldn't be a situation where someone goes red on somebody and two minutes later while they are working off the corruption they have to fight the same person again who is now conveniently ready to actually fight. That wouldn't work very well would it, especially for world bosses. It should take someone a solid 10-15 mins to get back to their grind spot to prevent people from gaming the system like that.
Percimes wrote: » Noaani wrote: » The thing I think people are forgetting is - you always have a choice as to whether or not you gain corruption. If you attack someone and they don't fight back, you can always break off the fight. You only gain corruption when you kill the player. So, if you attack someone while he's fighting a mob and he doesn't fight back you can keep helping the mob but leave him the honour of the kill and suffer no penalty? Sounds like a good way to eliminate the competition in an area for the duration of their corps run.
Sathrago wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Sathrago wrote: » Noaani wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » nuro wrote: » If you are equal in level / power , then you really don't have much of an excuse to not fight back. Its really not bullying if its equal in that sense and also numbers wise. I'm very much looking forward to the group PvP in the game. I absolutely suck at 1v1, and will likely lose against anyone, regardless of level. So, I won't be bothering to fight back. If someone attacks me, then they're turning red, and a Bounty Hunter's coming for them. That's the only way I'm getting revenge on them. So, I lose a few more resources by doing it - sob sob sob. There are a lot of people that will purposely not fight back so that any would be attacker needs to gain corruption in order to get the kill. A lot of people will make the split second decision based on what they are carrying as well - they may well have a good chance of winning the fight, but decide to let the play gain that corruption, then come back in a few minutes and kill their assailant who then gets 4 times the death penalty. The thing I think people are forgetting is - you always have a choice as to whether or not you gain corruption. If you attack someone and they don't fight back, you can always break off the fight. You only gain corruption when you kill the player. My two worries with corruption pvp are this. Non-combatants gain a lot of detriments when they die, the stat, loot chance, hp/mana, and exp tax are really rough. I don't see myself ever wanting to die as a non-combatant even if it means giving someone corruption. Especially if they are a group of players, only one person will get corruption even though they were all attacking you. I wish corruption was gained upon attacking a non-combatant. Not enough to turn you red but enough that it stacks up. You can choose to stop fighting but if you continuously attack green players that little bit of corruption will stack up and make you red. While I get what you are saying, this causes mechanical errors. If attacking a player generates corruption, that player that was attacked can't flag as a combatant by fighting back - as you don't flag as a combatant for fighting a player that has corruption. This would require a complete redesign of the flagging system. Perhaps allow that player that was attacked and not killed a period of time in which they can report the attack to a guard, and upon that report, the player gains that small amount of corruption. It's just a random thought at this stage (as I agree that attacking players at random should have potential to generate corruption), and I am sure it will have issues with it, but the premise is promising, imo. From what was told to me by Fuppo Headhunter on the discord, the game will have a button to flag yourself at any time because as you said attacking as a non combatant into a corrupted does not flag you. I had this same issue last night when talking on discord lol. Also I would be down for a reporting system that stacks up reports until the current life they were committed on expires. So you need to do it asap if you really want to get them corrupted.
Noaani wrote: » Sathrago wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Sathrago wrote: » Noaani wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » nuro wrote: » If you are equal in level / power , then you really don't have much of an excuse to not fight back. Its really not bullying if its equal in that sense and also numbers wise. I'm very much looking forward to the group PvP in the game. I absolutely suck at 1v1, and will likely lose against anyone, regardless of level. So, I won't be bothering to fight back. If someone attacks me, then they're turning red, and a Bounty Hunter's coming for them. That's the only way I'm getting revenge on them. So, I lose a few more resources by doing it - sob sob sob. There are a lot of people that will purposely not fight back so that any would be attacker needs to gain corruption in order to get the kill. A lot of people will make the split second decision based on what they are carrying as well - they may well have a good chance of winning the fight, but decide to let the play gain that corruption, then come back in a few minutes and kill their assailant who then gets 4 times the death penalty. The thing I think people are forgetting is - you always have a choice as to whether or not you gain corruption. If you attack someone and they don't fight back, you can always break off the fight. You only gain corruption when you kill the player. My two worries with corruption pvp are this. Non-combatants gain a lot of detriments when they die, the stat, loot chance, hp/mana, and exp tax are really rough. I don't see myself ever wanting to die as a non-combatant even if it means giving someone corruption. Especially if they are a group of players, only one person will get corruption even though they were all attacking you. I wish corruption was gained upon attacking a non-combatant. Not enough to turn you red but enough that it stacks up. You can choose to stop fighting but if you continuously attack green players that little bit of corruption will stack up and make you red. While I get what you are saying, this causes mechanical errors. If attacking a player generates corruption, that player that was attacked can't flag as a combatant by fighting back - as you don't flag as a combatant for fighting a player that has corruption. This would require a complete redesign of the flagging system. Perhaps allow that player that was attacked and not killed a period of time in which they can report the attack to a guard, and upon that report, the player gains that small amount of corruption. It's just a random thought at this stage (as I agree that attacking players at random should have potential to generate corruption), and I am sure it will have issues with it, but the premise is promising, imo. From what was told to me by Fuppo Headhunter on the discord, the game will have a button to flag yourself at any time because as you said attacking as a non combatant into a corrupted does not flag you. I had this same issue last night when talking on discord lol. Also I would be down for a reporting system that stacks up reports until the current life they were committed on expires. So you need to do it asap if you really want to get them corrupted. There is no confirmation of a button, and there is a comment from Steven stating all the ways you shift between flag states, with no mention at all of a button. While there is one for the pre-alpha build, that exists purely because the flagging system has not been developed.
