Infamouse wrote: » Interesting thread, couple things. One this is my first post, what initially attracted me to Ashes of Creation is the Open world PVP flagging system that is identical to L2. (Im a 10+ year L2 player). Assuming AoC's pvp is similar to L2s in the sense that open world PVP is a constant threat you would never ever ever want to run around constantly flagged, culturally if it follows the same path as L2 (which the system itself kind of dictates/invites) being flagged is inviting people to attack you, and also a combat disadvantage. In L2, flagging order (especially in the early years, not so much in the later ones) was a HUGE part of pvp. What I mean by this is your tanks, heavy warrior classes, and tanky bard-buffers (Swordsingers and Bladedancers in L2) would be flagging in a pvp encounter, generally in that order, with your high DPS Mages, Rogues, Archers and most of all, healers trying to stay non-combatant as long as humanly possible, or until a soft target (Another healer, or your enemy parties top DPS who you desperately want to knock out of the fight early) flag. This was one of the joys of L2 PVP. Coordinated, skilled parties could absolutely decimate their (better geared/higher leveled) opponents by communicating more effectively. I played at the high end of pvp in L2 (Castle owning/pvp dominating top 3 guilds) most of my career there (Sieghardt in the early years, took a break, came back to Chronos if theres any other L2 players around ), and my excitement for this game is completely off the charts compared to anything else ive played/seen since then. Issues like what the OP are talking about assuming the system stays as-is are actually not issues, what I mean by that is not accidentally going corrupted is a very real thing that your players/pvpers will have to manage, and they should have to manage it. It makes the open world PVP encounters a delicate game of chess that has to be played in real time at high speed. There will be times where not properly managing these things will cost you a fight to a weaker opponent who you should have otherwise beaten, because they were smarter/more patient/paid more attention to what was going on. It adds an entire element of tactical play to open world PVP that is woefully lacking in other games (been playing wow for a while now, including classic). WOW is a great example of that. I hear people talk about enjoying PVP in that game, and for me, who grew up in L2 pvp, WoW PVP is essentially worthless. Its a mini-game at a carnival at best. Something to be enjoyed for a split second and then forgotten about. I have a feeling that AOC is going to be more of the meaningful, tactical, drama filled PVP that I love. You will never want to run around flagged for PVP in AOC, needlessly giving up a huge tactical advantage of getting to choose when/where/how to enter a fight. If you do, players like me (and im sure many others) will take advantage of your stupidity and carelessness and punish you, repeatedly, and you will stop doing that. A toggle in a game like this will also be worthless. Fast-travel is limited. Zone/area management via PVP means will be a real thing. Clans and guilds will work to control the best zones and spots. Only the absolute top players/guilds would ever want to be always flagged for PVP. I promise you that there will be guilds that form that declare war on every other guild in the game, and fight all takers at every opportunity. In real life terms, for the average player in AOC, being always toggled for PVP would be the equivalent of dropping your pants to your feet, then handcuffing your wrists to your ankles, and THEN challenging every person you come across on the street to a fight. My old L2 players who are used to this system know this. If you never played L2 and are not used to this flagging system, youll understand that a toggle completely defeats the purpose of this for open-world PVP. Sieges, caravans, guild wars, etc where everyone involved is a combatant will be treated/handled completely differently. Everyone involved will be ready, on-guard, buffed and paying attention, and the style/way the fights play out will be entirely different than the large open world pvp encounters. Parties will be organized differently, min-maxed to the absolute bleeding edge/limit of the current game knowledge. Your open world encounters wont be like this (unless of course you leave town explicitly to pvp and you prepare for it). Open world will be alot dirtier, grittier, and full of twists. So before you beg for a toggle, play the game first XD
Noaani wrote: » Tyrantor wrote: » The toggle would be my (our) way of saying we forfeit the corruption system. However, since corruption is a key aspect to the game, and it being acquired at a reasonable rate is actually key to other systems in the game functioning, the wide scale ability to opt out of it is simply not a good fit for this game.
Tyrantor wrote: » The toggle would be my (our) way of saying we forfeit the corruption system.
daveywavey wrote: » It's not "opting out of Corruption", per se, more like skipping the first stage. If someone using this toggle to go purple goes and kills a green, they'll go Corrupted as normal.
Tyrantor wrote: » Where is corruption listed as a "key aspect" to the game
Dolyem wrote: » Why shouldn't a person be able to opt out of a system that protects them?
Noaani wrote: » You are looking at it from the very narrow perspective of someone that wants to PvP all the time (a small segment of the playerbase), where as I am looking at it from the perspective of the actual game - not even of a player in the game, but the actual game.
Nerror wrote: » In the beginning of this thread I thought I knew what was being discussed, but I am not sure anymore... The current system, based on that video, is that players can toggle the combatant flag on and off at any time, but there is a timer after it's toggled off before it takes effect and the player becomes a non-combatant again. Are you guys arguing about whether or not that's a good system?
Noaani wrote: » Tyrantor wrote: » Where is corruption listed as a "key aspect" to the game In the bounty hunter system. Any system that has another system built entierly on top of it is a key system.
Nerror wrote: » Are you guys arguing about whether or not that's a good system?
CROW3 wrote: » Has there been any dev discussion on the default purple flag duration after a pvp encounter?
Tyrantor wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Tyrantor wrote: » Where is corruption listed as a "key aspect" to the game In the bounty hunter system. Any system that has another system built entierly on top of it is a key system. How would this be impacted exactly? Again the toggle would have no impact on this.
Noaani wrote: » If there are more people running around as combatants, then there are fewer ways in which people can gain corruption. There are people in this thread that have said they would never turn this flag off, meaning there will absolutely be fewer people in the game over all by which players can gain corruption. This means fewer people with corruption, and those with corruption will have less of it. In turn, that means the bounty hunter system - which is a progression path in Ashes - is significantly less valuable as a path on which to spend time.
Noaani wrote: » Tyrantor wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Tyrantor wrote: » Where is corruption listed as a "key aspect" to the game In the bounty hunter system. Any system that has another system built entierly on top of it is a key system. How would this be impacted exactly? Again the toggle would have no impact on this. If there are more people running around as combatants, then there are fewer ways in which people can gain corruption. There are people in this thread that have said they would never turn this flag off, meaning there will absolutely be fewer people in the game over all by which players can gain corruption. This means fewer people with corruption, and those with corruption will have less of it. In turn, that means the bounty hunter system - which is a progression path in Ashes - is significantly less valuable as a path on which to spend time.
daveywavey wrote: » Noaani wrote: » If there are more people running around as combatants, then there are fewer ways in which people can gain corruption. There are people in this thread that have said they would never turn this flag off, meaning there will absolutely be fewer people in the game over all by which players can gain corruption. This means fewer people with corruption, and those with corruption will have less of it. In turn, that means the bounty hunter system - which is a progression path in Ashes - is significantly less valuable as a path on which to spend time. The Corruption system is to deter griefing. If there are less players being griefed, then surely that's a good thing?
Noaani wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » Noaani wrote: » If there are more people running around as combatants, then there are fewer ways in which people can gain corruption. There are people in this thread that have said they would never turn this flag off, meaning there will absolutely be fewer people in the game over all by which players can gain corruption. This means fewer people with corruption, and those with corruption will have less of it. In turn, that means the bounty hunter system - which is a progression path in Ashes - is significantly less valuable as a path on which to spend time. The Corruption system is to deter griefing. If there are less players being griefed, then surely that's a good thing? I'm not sure what you are saying here. The kind of people that would be griefed in a game like Ashes are not the kind of people that would use a toggle like this.
