Sword and shield DPS

Mushin

Any support for sword and shield Dps build? I can't think of any mmo that has this and is actually implemented well.

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daveywavey

Damokles wrote: »

GW1 had a pretty good SnB warrior bleed build i believe though^^

It had great everything builds. There were so many skills you could customise your build however you wanted.

Damokles

daveywavey wrote: »

Damokles wrote: »

GW1 had a pretty good SnB warrior bleed build i believe though^^

It had great everything builds. There were so many skills you could customise your build however you wanted.

I remember my Dervish/Assassin build. No one could escape Avatar of Grenth, if he could teleport behind you >:^)

Khronus

mushin wrote: »

CptBrownBeard wrote: »

Is the request to deal damage adequately with a sword-n-board style, or for the ability to deal maximized and competitive damage with that same style?

Just wanted to clarify because if the former, then yeah sure it'll no doubt be possible.

If we're discussing the latter than I don't see that happening, in my opinion. Within the parameters of an RPG there is a balance that must be ensured or the game runs the risk of leaning too heavily in one side's favor.

For a single player game that isn't an issue, necessarily, but in an MMO that leads to problems with balance.

Basically what I'm saying is that an SnB build should indeed deal damage, but not be a predominant DPS choice as having the shield inherently includes more mitigation potential. Otherwise why have the shield?

Pretty much I just don't want to be kicked from raid and dungeon groups because I'm running a sword and board dps. I don't have any desire to out dps a mage but at least have the build where I can carry my own weight. I don't even mind the idea of being off tank/dps hybrid, but I just don't like the idea of being discriminated for how I want to play my character.

The beauty of this game will be the discovery of new class specs that will work. I am main tanking for my guild and would LOVE to be able to be a dps contender when not getting my face bashed in but unfortunately we will probably be low dps and high CC (which I am ok with when it comes to pvp).

As far as you getting kicked from a raid....MY thought process will be this for players. Let's work on a build and find out what we can top your dps on (we can 1v1 to see while I am being healed and then compare this to other dps players or we can time bursting down the same mob and compare to others. If your dps is viable, you would absolutely be invited as a sword and board tank. if it isn't, we will work on finding something that works better but that you also enjoy. I would love to talk more about it with you if you happen to be looking for a guild : ). Add me on Discord and message me anytime! Khronus#4299.

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/44811/north-america-council-recruitment-thread#latest

Mushin

All of these are great ideas especially for the fighter class. I agree it shouldn't be a burst class but have consistent dps with cc abilities. In terms of pvp a class that excels in prolonged battles.

McShave

For anyone that has read the Eye of the World series, I want to create an Aiel spear+shield character. Will probably be an offtank who is maybe good at PvP?

edit: i expect it to be a fighter/ tank, but will have to see the spells and augments to really say.

Auriel

In the case of all your other builds details such as class selection, attributes, resource setup, class skill sets, augments etc. are all DPS, I don't think equipping SnB alone will then make you not a DPS.

BUT, SnB skill tree will definitely have more skills or passive abilities designed for tanking and survivability, compare to pure damage dealing and burst damage dealing skills. Hence, it will be upto the player to choose what skills to use in the end, may be less SnB skills in your skill bar but more archetype skills instead.

Atama

Get a DPS class, focus on damage abilities, get a sword and shield to make yourself a little less squishy. I don’t see the problem. Plus, I believe you can swap weapons in combat, so I don’t see why you can’t have the sword and shield and a more offensive-focused weapon to switch between based on the situation.

Mushin

Atama wrote: »

Get a DPS class, focus on damage abilities, get a sword and shield to make yourself a little less squishy. I don’t see the problem. Plus, I believe you can swap weapons in combat, so I don’t see why you can’t have the sword and shield and a more offensive-focused weapon to switch between based on the situation.

I thought we were only able to have one melee set and range weapon set we could swap in between. Am I wrong?

Noaani

mushin wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Get a DPS class, focus on damage abilities, get a sword and shield to make yourself a little less squishy. I don’t see the problem. Plus, I believe you can swap weapons in combat, so I don’t see why you can’t have the sword and shield and a more offensive-focused weapon to switch between based on the situation.

I thought we were only able to have one melee set and range weapon set we could swap in between. Am I wrong?

There will be the ability to swap weapons in combat, but only after a time period of neither dealing nor taking damage.

CROW3

Noaani wrote: »

There will be the ability to swap weapons in combat, but only after a time period of neither dealing nor taking damage.

Here's hoping that duration is no longer than a second or two (i.e. a GCD unit).

Noaani

CROW3 wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

There will be the ability to swap weapons in combat, but only after a time period of neither dealing nor taking damage.

Here's hoping that duration is no longer than a second or two (i.e. a GCD unit).

Indeed - the current wording we have is that it will "maybe be a few seconds", so at least we know it shouldn't be too long.

Gizban

Damokles wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

Warth wrote: »

against a human maybe. Against a giant dragon? Not at all.

The bigger the difference in physical strength the more important it becomes tl concentrate your attack on a narrow spot through piercing or cutting.

And the more important it becomes to protect yourself from a big huge dragon claw coming at you?! Big metal barrier between me and it? Yes please! Hehehe

A meak little piece of metal wont protect you from the crushing, flesh randing claws of a giant dagon though? xD

My first char in Skyrim was sword/shield. He was a beast.

Sathrago

The biggest issue I can see with this idea currently is that you can swap weapons in combat. (You have to not take or deal damage for a few seconds but still). This means that everyone will expect you to only swap to this in order to offtank adds or take over If the tank flops on the ground. No serious group would bring this for damage unfortunately.

Now if the game proves me wrong and let's you significantly dump defensive stats on a shield for damage stats then hey congrats you found a neat new weapon meta. More power to ya.

Noaani

Sathrago wrote: »

The biggest issue I can see with this idea currently is that you can swap weapons in combat. (You have to not take or deal damage for a few seconds but still). This means that everyone will expect you to only swap to this in order to offtank adds or take over If the tank flops on the ground. No serious group would bring this for damage unfortunately.

Now if the game proves me wrong and let's you significantly dump defensive stats on a shield for damage stats then hey congrats you found a neat new weapon meta. More power to ya.

I do have to agree with this.

If you are using one offensive and one defensive item, then you shouldn't expect to do the DPS of someone holding two offensive items, or an offensive item in both hands. That just doesn't make sense.

Now, a sword and shield would be fine for non-DPS roles, I could see bards making use of this, and perhaps even some healers, as well as tanks, obviously - I just don't see how it would be a DPS build with that specific load out.

daveywavey

Sathrago wrote: »

currently is that you can swap weapons in combat. (You have to not take or deal damage for a few seconds but still).

This just got me wondering......

The AoC Wiki wrote:

Rangers are going to have a minimum distance requirement where they are eligible to use their ranged weapons.[15]

While melee characters have a max distance proximity where they're eligible to use their sword and melee weapons, Rangers are going to have a minimum distance requirement.[15] – Steven Sharif

If you're mooching along carrying your bow, and a melee player comes up to you and attacks you, are you going to be able to use a weapon to fight back? They're melee, so they're going to be in close, and the Bow has a minimum distance where it's allowed to shoot, so you won't be able to shoot your bow. And, you won't be able to change weapon, cos the other player is going to be dealing damage to you. So, you've instantly lost part of your offensive/defensive capability just cos you were holding a Bow when you were attacked.

Or, am I just looking at it wrong...?

Sathrago

daveywavey wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

currently is that you can swap weapons in combat. (You have to not take or deal damage for a few seconds but still).

This just got me wondering......

The AoC Wiki wrote:

Rangers are going to have a minimum distance requirement where they are eligible to use their ranged weapons.[15]

While melee characters have a max distance proximity where they're eligible to use their sword and melee weapons, Rangers are going to have a minimum distance requirement.[15] – Steven Sharif

If you're mooching along carrying your bow, and a melee player comes up to you and attacks you, are you going to be able to use a weapon to fight back? They're melee, so they're going to be in close, and the Bow has a minimum distance where it's allowed to shoot, so you won't be able to shoot your bow. And, you won't be able to change weapon, cos the other player is going to be dealing damage to you. So, you've instantly lost part of your offensive/defensive capability just cos you were holding a Bow when you were attacked.

Or, am I just looking at it wrong...?

Maybe this will help:

Characters performing ranged abilities will switch to the ranged weapon, then can switch back to the melee weapon and shield or two-handed melee weapon.[7]
The weapon held in the main hand slot determines the active weapon ability.[7]

Do I want my main hand to be my ranged weapon or do I want my main hand to be my melee weapon with regards to skill usage. For example, with the Ranger, if you have a range skill it'll automatically swap regardless of what your main weapon hand is, but for the combat ability for the "Auto Attack" feature it would be your chosen weapon.[7] – Steven Sharif

This leads me to believe that it will be depending on your main weapon if you can swap effectively between skills to deal with a range or melee foe.

daveywavey

Sathrago wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

currently is that you can swap weapons in combat. (You have to not take or deal damage for a few seconds but still).

This just got me wondering......

The AoC Wiki wrote:

Rangers are going to have a minimum distance requirement where they are eligible to use their ranged weapons.[15]

While melee characters have a max distance proximity where they're eligible to use their sword and melee weapons, Rangers are going to have a minimum distance requirement.[15] – Steven Sharif

If you're mooching along carrying your bow, and a melee player comes up to you and attacks you, are you going to be able to use a weapon to fight back? They're melee, so they're going to be in close, and the Bow has a minimum distance where it's allowed to shoot, so you won't be able to shoot your bow. And, you won't be able to change weapon, cos the other player is going to be dealing damage to you. So, you've instantly lost part of your offensive/defensive capability just cos you were holding a Bow when you were attacked.

Or, am I just looking at it wrong...?

Maybe this will help:

Characters performing ranged abilities will switch to the ranged weapon, then can switch back to the melee weapon and shield or two-handed melee weapon.[7]
The weapon held in the main hand slot determines the active weapon ability.[7]

Do I want my main hand to be my ranged weapon or do I want my main hand to be my melee weapon with regards to skill usage. For example, with the Ranger, if you have a range skill it'll automatically swap regardless of what your main weapon hand is, but for the combat ability for the "Auto Attack" feature it would be your chosen weapon.[7] – Steven Sharif

This leads me to believe that it will be depending on your main weapon if you can swap effectively between skills to deal with a range or melee foe.

Hmmmm, maybe. Will be interesting to see the footage when we get some gameplay videos.

Nagash

May not be a sword but tank builds can still hurt

PlagueMonk

I totally understand that IRL, the S/S is an excellent combination but in games it's a bit unbalanced since what you want is both high DPS and high suitability. How will you justify that to the MDPS that sacrifice their protection to go all out damage? Therein lies the problem, you can't have BOTH the highest DPS and the best protection or else EVERYONE would be playing them. There has to be a trade off.

So S/S will have excellent DPS and good protection (probably heavier armor as well) while that 2 handed Berserker or dual wielder will have lower survivability but more extreme DPS capability.

Damokles

PlagueMonk wrote: »

I totally understand that IRL, the S/S is an excellent combination but in games it's a bit unbalanced since what you want is both high DPS and high suitability. How will you justify that to the MDPS that sacrifice their protection to go all out damage? Therein lies the problem, you can't have BOTH the highest DPS and the best protection or else EVERYONE would be playing them. There has to be a trade off.

So S/S will have excellent DPS and good protection (probably heavier armor as well) while that 2 handed Berserker or dual wielder will have lower survivability but more extreme DPS capability.

THE BALANCE MUST BE MAINTAINED!

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