Login rewards yes or no?

2

Comments

  • JazeriousJazerious Member, Warrior of Old
    Well, now thinking about how many hrs are in a month, maybe LESS than a months playtime LOL!
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    Noaani wrote: »
    Second, players shouldn't ever feel punished for taking a day off to take their significant other out for dinner, or to spend an evening with their children.

    I definitely understand how these types of login rewards that only ramp up if you log in consistently can lead to potential "feelsbad" moments just for living your real life too. However, I've seen some games implement them where they just count up every time you log in, regardless of how long it's been since your last login - so it was more about rewarding you for overall time played. More like a "thank you for being a loyal friend" vs. "you MUST log in every day to get the greatest goodies". I'd be interested to hear more on what folks think about a system built more like this instead :smiley:
    Noaani wrote: »
    Someone that is able to spend 2 blocks of 7 hours a week in the game should not be at any disadvantage to someone that is able to spend 7 blocks of 2 hours a week in the game.

    Keeping this in mind and expanding further on the above, what if it was just based on your total time played in-game? So that every certain hours of playtime (regardless of consistency of login) you got a nice little gift?

    The way you worded it sounds like they will be in game
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • Nagash wrote: »
    The way you worded it sounds like they will be in game

    That's the way I read Toast's response as well. I would be interested in understanding more about why (e.g. what are they trying to achieve), considering the near-uniform reaction above (knowing this isn't a scientific sample size).

    AoC+Dwarf+750.jpg
  • George BlackGeorge Black Member
    edited November 19
    It might be the first time her post wont receive even a token Like Oo
  • However, I've seen some games implement them where they just count up every time you log in, regardless of how long it's been since your last login - so it was more about rewarding you for overall time played. More like a "thank you for being a loyal friend" vs. "you MUST log in every day to get the greatest goodies". I'd be interested to hear more on what folks think about a system built more like this instead :smiley:

    It's still a punishment, though. It's just a subtle one. Like the TV Game Shows where the contestant has just lost the big prize, and they go: "Heeeeeere's what you could have won...!" I don't want to feel like I'm being bribed to play the game.

    Please pass our feedback on to whoever makes the decisions about this. We don't like it, and we'll be disappointed to see it, given the feedback we've given. :(
  • Someone ask them in the Q&A if they will have dailie log-in boni!
    KkvMmA5.png
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds
    I can't say I would hate it if there were daily login rewards. Some of the MMOs I play on a regular basis have them. But given a choice I'd rather not have them. Here are my reasons...

    1) Pretty much without fail, daily rewards seem to accompany games that include pay-to-win aspects. I'm not saying that one necessitates the other, because that's not true. The game won't suddenly become P2W just because it has this. But it gives it that veneer and I don't like it. This isn't a rational argument, it's merely an emotional one, but regardless it still forms part of my opinion.

    2) As suggested by others, it makes you feel obligated to log in every day. Whenever that happens in a game, that is one more step from a game being a fun hobby to feeling like a chore. It won't do it on its own, but it will contribute. And when I finally get to the point where playing an MMO gives me the same feeling as taking out the trash or doing the dishes, I stop playing. Which would really bum me out with all I've invested into this game already.

    3) Going back to my first point, while this doesn't become P2W, it does become a reward without doing much to earn it. If I get some bonus XP or materials or money or a cosmetic because I logged in 7 days in a row, that feels cheap compared to running through a dungeon for it or doing a quest or looting it off a monster. I am aware of our cosmetic shop (I have bought a number of things there after all) and I have Kickstarter rewards coming, so I know that there are going to be things we can get without earning it in-game. But I don't want that shoved in my face every day in the course of playing the game. Just the same way I hope I don't see constant ads for the store popping up in the game either. I guess it bothers me if I'm logging into the game to earn things. Let that be its own thing separate from gameplay. If that makes sense.

    Anyway, this isn't a deal-breaker for me. I don't think it will ruin the game. I tolerate it in games I play already, even games I love. But I do think that the game would be better without it.
    U752vHP.png
  • NerrorNerror Member
    edited November 20
    Keeping this in mind and expanding further on the above, what if it was just based on your total time played in-game? So that every certain hours of playtime (regardless of consistency of login) you got a nice little gift?

    Still no for me. That way also lies people just staying logged in idling, with a coin holding the space bar down or something. Bad for the environment, bad for the server community, with servers seemingly more active than they are, and bad for the monthly electricity bill.

    I really don't need or want a reward for being logged in, other than good gameplay. It seems like the vast majority agrees here fortunately.

    Another thing others already touched on, either the rewards for being logged in are close to pointless, in which case it feels like a cheap marketing stunt and leaves a bad feeling, or the rewards are actually pretty good, and people will use any means necessary to get enough hours in, even if afk/sleeping, to avoid the fear of missing out. This also leaves a bad feeling. We already have FOMO in the cosmetics shop, which is honestly my only real dislike right now when it comes to Ashes.
  • VarkunVarkun Member, Braver of Worlds
    No the games content should be the reward for logging in each day not a stupid gimmick. With the rewards from the ESO system so much of it is just junk with potions etc can actually take away from the in game economy because hey I got this free stuff for logging in so don't need to buy stuff now.
    3KAqRIf.png
    Close your eyes spread your arms and always trust your cape.
  • loginrewards.jpg

    AoC+Dwarf+750.jpg
  • Noaani wrote: »
    Second, players shouldn't ever feel punished for taking a day off to take their significant other out for dinner, or to spend an evening with their children.

    I definitely understand how these types of login rewards that only ramp up if you log in consistently can lead to potential "feelsbad" moments just for living your real life too. However, I've seen some games implement them where they just count up every time you log in, regardless of how long it's been since your last login - so it was more about rewarding you for overall time played. More like a "thank you for being a loyal friend" vs. "you MUST log in every day to get the greatest goodies". I'd be interested to hear more on what folks think about a system built more like this instead :smiley:
    Noaani wrote: »
    Someone that is able to spend 2 blocks of 7 hours a week in the game should not be at any disadvantage to someone that is able to spend 7 blocks of 2 hours a week in the game.

    Keeping this in mind and expanding further on the above, what if it was just based on your total time played in-game? So that every certain hours of playtime (regardless of consistency of login) you got a nice little gift?

    If there will be a time /played reward system that has no time limit on it(meaning Its not some monthly limited window thing) , then I guess it would be ok... but I question a reason for that system in the first place.

    The big issue is what the rewards do. If they are strong or cool looking rewards then people will attempt to stayed logged in as long as possible using mechanical or technical means to subvert a log out timer. If the rewards are not powerful or cool, then most players will just see it as this annoying pop up that litters your inventory with useless items every so often.

    I do not see a positive for the game either way though...
  • Nagash wrote: »
    The way you worded it sounds like they will be in game
    CROW3 wrote: »
    That's the way I read Toast's response as well. I would be interested in understanding more about why (e.g. what are they trying to achieve), considering the near-uniform reaction above (knowing this isn't a scientific sample size).

    I wasn't meaning to imply as much, I was just providing an alternate angle for the discussion as it seemed like lots of folks here were so uniformly against it, and I wanted to shake ya up a bit ;)

    And indeed while forums are amazing for gathering feedback and thoughts on these kinds of things, we do always have to keep in mind that it's only a very small and super passionate subset of the community that will take the time to chime in and respond <3

    3ztrsitvhj3s.gif
  • Someone has to play devil's advocate!
    Coz it's true we're bandwagoning.

    I'm mostly against though.
    As much as I like free stuff, Dailies turns fun into a chore.
    Forgiveness mechanics are always appreciated - but it doesn't change the mindset a daily puts you into.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds
    Nagash wrote: »
    The way you worded it sounds like they will be in game
    CROW3 wrote: »
    That's the way I read Toast's response as well. I would be interested in understanding more about why (e.g. what are they trying to achieve), considering the near-uniform reaction above (knowing this isn't a scientific sample size).

    I wasn't meaning to imply as much, I was just providing an alternate angle for the discussion as it seemed like lots of folks here were so uniformly against it, and I wanted to shake ya up a bit ;)

    And indeed while forums are amazing for gathering feedback and thoughts on these kinds of things, we do always have to keep in mind that it's only a very small and super passionate subset of the community that will take the time to chime in and respond <3
    The forums represent the crazy customers.
    U752vHP.png
  • That's a solid no to log in distractions from me, as well. If Intrepid really wants to reward active players, they can do it with cosmetic currency (Embers) applied to the account, outside of the game.

    I would like to see some sort of server-based major event breakdown or log since last log in though.
    I am not sure how hard that would be to accomplish, though.

    Since your last login,
    * Node A has become a metropolis.
    * Node A has been sieged.
    * etc.
  • Katak wrote: »
    That's a solid no to log in distractions from me, as well. If Intrepid really wants to reward active players, they can do it with cosmetic currency (Embers) applied to the account, outside of the game.

    I would like to see some sort of server-based major event breakdown or log since last log in though.
    I am not sure how hard that would be to accomplish, though.

    Since your last login,
    * Node A has become a metropolis.
    * Node A has been sieged.
    * etc.

    As long as it don't pop up when you log in. I really hate when a game bugs me the second I load it up. If there was a separate window to manually bring it up. I would for sure use that. It would be even better if it was on a website so I could bring it up on a second monitor.
    CctsKnC.png
  • AmmaAmma Member
    I think i understand the psychological reason why some companies use these daily log-in gifts. They want to give the people a positive feeling as if the game itself is happy to see you the casual player after that horrible day or something like that. So they want you to start their game with a good feeling.

    Number one is, that i think, that this effect is far less effective than it is told to these companies from the so called experts, because everyone is getting used to it very fast (thats our human nature), so after a week or two you are just ignoring that message, no matter what is in there. That means it gets automatically to something that is just annoying after some time and you try to klick it away as fast as possible.

    Then you have the other kind of players, who are more like the people here in the chat, who are more interested and invested in the game. That group as everyone can see is far more annoyed by something like that.
    My opinion to this is that i am against something like that and that the bigger effect from something like that would be a negative one.

    I have a suggestion: I think that this game will have like the most mmos something like daily-quests, simply because some players want to be told what to do after they hit max level and cant decide what to do next. I think it would be a more interesting motivation if you try to combine something that you do daily with that effect that it gets better over time or grows over time, so that you get that feeling from the game to be rewarded to invest more time in the game.
    That still doesnt mean that i am for it, but if you as IS-team are thinking about implementing such things, then i think it would be better to do that with something in the game and not just through logging in.
  • ariatrasariatras Member
    edited November 20
    Noaani wrote: »
    Second, players shouldn't ever feel punished for taking a day off to take their significant other out for dinner, or to spend an evening with their children.

    I definitely understand how these types of login rewards that only ramp up if you log in consistently can lead to potential "feelsbad" moments just for living your real life too. However, I've seen some games implement them where they just count up every time you log in, regardless of how long it's been since your last login - so it was more about rewarding you for overall time played. More like a "thank you for being a loyal friend" vs. "you MUST log in every day to get the greatest goodies". I'd be interested to hear more on what folks think about a system built more like this instead :smiley:
    Noaani wrote: »
    Someone that is able to spend 2 blocks of 7 hours a week in the game should not be at any disadvantage to someone that is able to spend 7 blocks of 2 hours a week in the game.

    Keeping this in mind and expanding further on the above, what if it was just based on your total time played in-game? So that every certain hours of playtime (regardless of consistency of login) you got a nice little gift?

    I hope you are playing the role of the Devil's advocate. And that you're not actually thinking of putting in this "bovine feces"

    It's essentially a participation trophy. Not the kind of mindset I want seeping into an MMO I want to play for years to come.
    giphy-0.jpg

  • NoaaniNoaani Member
    edited November 20
    Keeping this in mind and expanding further on the above, what if it was just based on your total time played in-game? So that every certain hours of playtime (regardless of consistency of login) you got a nice little gift?
    @LieutenantToast
    My personal opinion on this kind of thing is that a reward for total duration of subscription time on an account is a good thing, moreso than a reward for logging in.

    A reward for being subscribed to the game for 3 months in total (not necessarily consecutive). Another for 12 months, 18 months, 24 months, 36 months, 48 months, 60 months etc.

    I'm not against the idea of some form of reward handed out to players after logging in for the 50th/100th/250th unique but not necessarily consecutive day, or something like that, but if you are looking at something like this, I personally think a reward like this is better off applied to subscription time - as we all know perfectly well that it is the specific act of us paying our subscription that Intrepid are actually happy about. This is the same for any business - we are all happy for the customers that chose to spend their money with us rather than with others - and so since this is what Intrepid as a company actually want from us customers, I think it is a better metric for using to hand out rewards - if rewards are to be handed out at all.

    In either case though, the rewards in question can be things that are cosmetic, or things that add to general player wealth, but shouldn't be anything that is specific or unique to these rewards.

  • I would be ok with rewards for longtime subscriptions I suppose. Like every 6 or 12 months, not every month. Something cosmetic, like a badge to sew on your cape. "Congratulations Nerror, on your 12 months of being addicted to Ashes of Creation".
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member
    edited November 20
    And indeed while forums are amazing for gathering feedback and thoughts on these kinds of things, we do always have to keep in mind that it's only a very small and super passionate subset of the community that will take the time to chime in and respond <3

    Well, they say that when one person writes in about something, there are more thinking the same that just don't bother. So, as long as you're not just assuming that the quieter voices are the opposite opinion. There aren't that many responses here in favour of daily rewards, so chances are there aren't so many thinking it, either.
  • daveywavey wrote: »
    And indeed while forums are amazing for gathering feedback and thoughts on these kinds of things, we do always have to keep in mind that it's only a very small and super passionate subset of the community that will take the time to chime in and respond <3

    Well, they say that when one person writes in about something, there are more thinking the same that just don't bother. So, as long as you're not just assuming that the quieter voices are the opposite opinion. There aren't that many responses here in favour of daily rewards, so chances are there aren't so many thinking it, either.

    I have to agree.

    There are a good many posters representing a vast array of different desires for Ashes, histories of games played and general points of view in regards to gaming in general. While not every perspective could be represented, it is fairly fair to say at this point that the forums here are a decent micro-chasm of the eventual playerbase.

    It would be somewhat foolish then, to go against a fairly broad general consensus on a specific topic.

    If you put free rewards in front of players, of course they will take them. That shouldn't be confused with players being happy they are being given them for nothing.
  • Noaani wrote: »
    It would be somewhat foolish then, to go against a fairly broad general consensus on a specific topic.

    If you put free rewards in front of players, of course they will take them. That shouldn't be confused with players being happy they are being given them for nothing.

    This is scary close to the problem in WOW. The DEVs think that content that players universally hate is good because players log in to do the content. The issue is that the players have to do that content to get to the content they do like. They see that nearly the entire player base is doing the content, and think only a vocal minority is on the forums complaining.

    What makes it sad, is that if a single person logs on and says: "I like X content.". The blizzard DEVs are like: "That's our guy! See someone gets it!". Yet there are thousand of Youtube videos and forum threads talking about how that content made them quit.
    CctsKnC.png
  • Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    It would be somewhat foolish then, to go against a fairly broad general consensus on a specific topic.

    If you put free rewards in front of players, of course they will take them. That shouldn't be confused with players being happy they are being given them for nothing.

    This is scary close to the problem in WOW. The DEVs think that content that players universally hate is good because players log in to do the content. The issue is that the players have to do that content to get to the content they do like. They see that nearly the entire player base is doing the content, and think only a vocal minority is on the forums complaining.

    What makes it sad, is that if a single person logs on and says: "I like X content.". The blizzard DEVs are like: "That's our guy! See someone gets it!". Yet there are thousand of Youtube videos and forum threads talking about how that content made them quit.

    Indeed.

    I wish developers would break from assuming that a pure case of number of players performing a task being equal to that being content players want.

    Perform an analysis of rewards earned (and potential rewards earned), and the time needed to earn those rewards on content, then figure out what content is participated in to a disproportionate amount based on those rewards.

    Content that is participated in less than the rewards would suggest is not content that is being enjoyed, and content that is participated in more than the rewards would suggest is content people enjoy.

    Without taking the rewards on content in to account, you are completely able to work out what content players are running for ease of reward vs enjoyment of content.
  • Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    It would be somewhat foolish then, to go against a fairly broad general consensus on a specific topic.

    If you put free rewards in front of players, of course they will take them. That shouldn't be confused with players being happy they are being given them for nothing.

    This is scary close to the problem in WOW. The DEVs think that content that players universally hate is good because players log in to do the content. The issue is that the players have to do that content to get to the content they do like. They see that nearly the entire player base is doing the content, and think only a vocal minority is on the forums complaining.

    What makes it sad, is that if a single person logs on and says: "I like X content.". The blizzard DEVs are like: "That's our guy! See someone gets it!". Yet there are thousand of Youtube videos and forum threads talking about how that content made them quit.

    Players: We hate island expeditions.
    Devs: Our internal metrics and measurements tell us everyone does them. Therefore, they like it.
    Players: But you made it drop we need to enter raids
    Devs:Popular.

    giphy-0.jpg

  • It´s a No. It feels like a Burden; "if i dont log in today, i miss my Stuff." Beside from that... If i play an RPG, i only Progress with actualy playing the Game. (Outer Worlds/RimWorld) In an MMO, i only get to the last Steps with the Community, thats the Way ein MMORPG should work.

    Its allready desperade if you cant play the Game becouse of reallife. Jeah this happens sometimes. You can´t avoide it everytime. Skipping Raids/Dungeons/Events and even Funtime wirh Community/ Guild. But thats Life. However, for this Point, you Know that you Actually can do Work on this Progress afterwards, you wont Skip/Miss too mutch. Even with Progress on your Charakter etc.

    If there was a LoginReward, you automaticly know: "A will miss it und will never get it. I will be Left behind".
    So jeah its a Bad impression and made me Quit Games. (Event Singleplayer Ones like Mobil-Games i try´t Ones)
  • Keeping this in mind and expanding further on the above, what if it was just based on your total time played in-game? So that every certain hours of playtime (regardless of consistency of login) you got a nice little gift?

    I mean, I feel like investing time into the game at that point should be its own reward. If I'm an amazing speedrunner and I spend one hour of my day clearing a dungeon with my friends that took someone else three hours, but the dungeon dropped us the same rewards, why should the person get rewarded for taking longer? Sure, I could play another two hours, but at that point, it also starts to feel a bit negative for people who don't necessarily have much time to play.
    Noaani wrote: »
    A reward for being subscribed to the game for 3 months in total (not necessarily consecutive). Another for 12 months, 18 months, 24 months, 36 months, 48 months, 60 months etc.

    I'm not against the idea of some form of reward handed out to players after logging in for the 50th/100th/250th unique but not necessarily consecutive day, or something like that, but if you are looking at something like this, I personally think a reward like this is better off applied to subscription time - as we all know perfectly well that it is the specific act of us paying our subscription that Intrepid are actually happy about. This is the same for any business - we are all happy for the customers that chose to spend their money with us rather than with others - and so since this is what Intrepid as a company actually want from us customers, I think it is a better metric for using to hand out rewards - if rewards are to be handed out at all.

    That kind of thing seems good in theory to me and definitely superior to the daily login rewards, but my main worry there is that it ends up being a way to display "OG status", "before it got popular", "didn't get on the bandwagon", "here since the start", etc.

  • ariatrasariatras Member
    edited November 20
    To me, rewards and bonuses should be reserved for achievements. The simple act of logging in is not exactly an achievement.

    Being the first node on a server to reach Metropolis is. Killing 10k players as a milestone is an achievement. I'd much rather the rewards are linked to things we achieve. Otherwise they are meaningless.

    So, again. No thanks to log-in rewards.

    Edit: And when I say achievements, I don't mean the little pop-up achievements. I mean things you achieve within the game.
    giphy-0.jpg

  • Shenan wrote: »
    my main worry there is that it ends up being a way to display "OG status", "before it got popular", "didn't get on the bandwagon", "here since the start", etc.

    Well, we have that already with all the pre-order/kickstarter/etc cosmetics.
  • Lore DynamicLore Dynamic Member
    edited November 20
    Noaani wrote: »
    Second, players shouldn't ever feel punished for taking a day off to take their significant other out for dinner, or to spend an evening with their children.

    I definitely understand how these types of login rewards that only ramp up if you log in consistently can lead to potential "feelsbad" moments just for living your real life too. However, I've seen some games implement them where they just count up every time you log in, regardless of how long it's been since your last login - so it was more about rewarding you for overall time played. More like a "thank you for being a loyal friend" vs. "you MUST log in every day to get the greatest goodies". I'd be interested to hear more on what folks think about a system built more like this instead :smiley:
    Noaani wrote: »
    Someone that is able to spend 2 blocks of 7 hours a week in the game should not be at any disadvantage to someone that is able to spend 7 blocks of 2 hours a week in the game.

    Keeping this in mind and expanding further on the above, what if it was just based on your total time played in-game? So that every certain hours of playtime (regardless of consistency of login) you got a nice little gift?

    Final Fantasy 11 did this with the "Invite a Friend" campaign. It would let the 2 friends pick from a large list of goodies at different hallmark time-periods in which both the players have been subscribed.

    It was fun to, because it gave the 2 players an opportunity to meet up, together at a specific vender and have each of them pick out which item they wanted. Which was usually some costume, decoration for the Mog House, or silly trinket/toy of some sort.

    So it was a fun excuse every month, 3 months, 6 months, year...etc to seek out that same friend, have idle chats about their adventures/life and enjoy a little down-time browsing the venders fun choices.

    I think, for me, it was more fun to get to see that person in the world again. And talk and rekindle those possibly-lost friendly conversations, than about the actual item itself. Sometimes peoples schedules are hectic and we play solo, or join other groups and our friends get lost in the vast worlds of MMOs.

    But getting that reminder that "Hey, it's time for us to pick out our next Friend Campaign gift! Meet me in Bastok when you have some time?" ...that was always warming. :)
    Stephen Sharif is my James Halliday (Anorak)

    17102045741am-vaoep.png

    “That is not dead which can eternal lie,
    And with strange aeons even death may die.”

    -HPL
Sign In or Register to comment.