Macros in Ashes?

I haven't played to many mmorpgs, mostly ESO and WoW. But when it comes to world of warcraft, one can write some pretty interesting macros to help and assist you with your rotation and other things.

Examples:
Targeting macros, spell sequence, change/cancel form or stance, potion/food buff into a spell, modifier to add multiple spells to the same button, and much more.

I'm just wondering what other people think about macros and how other games have implemented it compared to WoW, and if it should be a thing in Ashes.

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Comments

rikardp98

Merek wrote: »

I understand why you'd want to optimize your skill usage like this, probably why I hate tab-target MMO's to begin with, but doesn't it kill your enjoyment? You turn learning to cast skills in succession into, "I googled the best macro, now I'm competitively viable.". How boring.

usually the macros are so simple that you don't need to find the "best", because after playing the game and learning your class you will be able to make the best macro that suits you.

halbarz

rikardp98 wrote: »

@McMackMuck @halbarz what is your previous experience with macros in games?

For me it's mostly wow classic where macros is mostly (to me, and how I have seen them used) off-gcd ability into one GCD ability, out of combat macros like gear changing macro, and targeting macros (where the "focus" commands is questionable).
No delays or wait commands to cast multiple spells, and from my experience no huge game changing commands.

I don't like the argument "I don't want them", please give me some examples (non-scribt like macro, no wait or delays).

in SWG Macro's made all the difference, without them, you were pretty much useless. These Macro's affected your performance on every level from (healing, combat (Damage), buffing) if I remember correctly you could even have macro's that included abilities of your combat pet. (been a very long time)

WoW and Macro's, as you mentioned you used them in classic WoW for off-gcd ability into one GCD ability, out of combat macros like gear changing macro, and targeting macros (where the "focus" commands are questionable).

- The swap gear or even swap build macro in games can easily be implemented within the Hero/Character window/functionality (Guild wars 2 did this)
- targeting macro's and healer markers are ridiculous this macro is an example of what I mean with: if you allow them into your game and later realize that it's F'ed up you cannot ban/remove macro's as you would upset your community which could be a financial nightmare. People are very easily triggered these days xD

by not allowing macro's, add-ons, etc. they are creating an even playing field for everyone. The real difference will come from your build, gear, and skill.

Frostshot1

Back in Vanilla WoW you almost had to make macro's. There were just too many skills not to. But this game looks to be about similar to most recent MMO's and action game, with just 1 bar of combat skills. So I would say macro's are unnecessary. I would like to see a bar or something for quick slot inventory items. Things you use often. Not related to macros however.

Songcaller

Yeah, I'm hopeful the devs will give us extra hotbars through in-game options but not for active abilities. The Dev team are very veteran and have come from games where extra hotbars were used.

Heruwolf

Neurath wrote: »

Console Commands (Each Section is its own Macro):

/console violencelevel5

/console overridefarclip 1
/console horizonfarclip 6226
/console groundeffectdensity 256
/console smallcull 0
/console skycloudlod 3
/console characterAmbient 1.0
/console extshadowquality 4
/console environmentDetail 2
/console farclip 2500
/console groundEffectDist 2500
/console groundEffectFade 2500

/console overridefarclip 1
/console horizonfarclip 6226
/console horizonStart 24000
/console farclip 24000
/console terrainLodDist 1500 /console wmoLodDist 1500
/console entityLodDist 100
/console groundeffectdensity 256
/console groundEffectDist 500
/console groundEffectFade 600

/console doodadLodDist 2000
/console shadowMode 3
/console shadowTextureSize 2048
/console smallcull 0
/console skycloudlod 3
/console extshadowquality 5
/console particleDensity 100
/console particleMTDensity 100
/console showfootprints 1

/console showfootprintparticles 1
/console environmentDetail 150
/console terrainMipLevel 0
/console worldBaseMip 0
/console WeatherDensity 3
/console detailDoodadAlpha 100
/console characterAmbient 1

/console ffxGlow 1
/console ffxDeath 1
/console reflectionMode 3
/console rippleDetail 3
/console sunshafts 2
/console spellEffectLevel 35

/console componentTextureLevel 0
/console componentSpecular 1
/console compenentEmissive 1
/console lodObjectMinSize 1000
/console lodObjectCullSize 100
/console lodObjectCullDist 200
/console lodObjectFadeScale 300
/console SSAODistance 750

To be blunt, these are from WoW Classic, I do not know much about WoW Retail though.

LMAO. None of these are macros. These are console commands. You can do all of this in the chat box. If Blizzard (or Intrepid for that matter) didn't want these commands to be usable, they'd remove them from the acceptable arguments of the /console command. Yes, these make it faster, but you're not gonna use these in combat.

Merek wrote: »

I understand why you'd want to optimize your skill usage like this, probably why I hate tab-target MMO's to begin with, but doesn't it kill your enjoyment? You turn learning to cast skills in succession into, "I googled the best macro, now I'm competitively viable.". How boring.

If this is all you think it requires to be competitively viable, oh my. In this same line of thought you might as well ask Intrepid to delete every guide online because that can teach you how to play your character. There is not a single macro in WoW that makes you competitively viable without first knowing why you're using the macro in the first place.

So far in this entire thread, I haven't seen a single person who has given me any reason to think that macros should not be allowed. I also don't believe that "Intrepid won't be able to tell who's cheating" is a viable argument, because frankly, that's just bad programming and development if that's true.

There was an argument about shadowstep kicking a healer in Arena PVP. What's the other option? Select the healer, press shadowstep, press kick? Ok, sure. but your talking 3 actions by the player, 4 if you consider recognizing the cast needs to be kicked in the first place. In that time period, the cast has gone off, you've already lost. It's a fast GCD game, the continued allowance of that fast GCD and constantly making the game faster is a design decision. How else would interrupts work? Let's say we have action combat interrupts, how would they work? Would they work any different than a mouseover macro? I think not. You aim at the target and push the button, same thing.

Let's imagine the same type of ability combination in an Action Combat game. You shadowstep behind your targeted enemy or ally. So you hover your crosshair over the enemy healer who is casting a heal, shadowstep and then immediately kick. The only difference is the Line of Sight requirement, which can easily be forced into an ability like Shadowstep to begin with anyways.

Now, I can agree that things like @ Focus, @ targetoftarget, and @ UnitID shouldn't be allowed. But @ Mouseover, at least for heals, need to be a thing. This game is potentially a Hybrid of Tab Target and Action combat. I'd love to see a good example of how pure action combat healing works, because I can't think of one that didn't ultimately end up in an "everybody stack up" meta. That, imo, would be terrible for this game. Having 500 people stacking next to each other just so they don't miss the AoE heals. I believe this game is going to be primarily tab target based healing with some powerful AOE targeted heals. This would make healers feel significantly slower than every other class with having to select every target that they want to heal as a single target. Mouse-over macros solve that.

Now, what I would REALLY like to see is just have this functionality built into healing. I would also like to see auto-confirmation for ground targeted abilities.

Though, I also believe that this entire response is just going to fall on deaf ears of people who just outright don't like macros despite not knowing a thing about them.

Songcaller

I explained they weren't for combat. The macros run them like scripts. You can enter them one by one but when combined into a macro they become a script. My point was to state WoW allows scripts and the scripts were shown.

HowlingWolf80

No macros thank goodness.

Heruwolf

Ok, fair. We can call them scripts, but you cannot script combat in WoW, anymore.

Vhaeyne

This thread is beautiful. The true second coming of the DPS meter thread.

halbarz

I think we can all agree that all this WoW talk is making us sick, nobody (I hope) wants Ashes to be another WoW.

Let's eat ice cream and prevent @Vhaeyne prediction

Heruwolf

Vhaeyne wrote: »

This thread is beautiful. The true second coming of the DPS meter thread.

You have a link to that thread??? I'm bored... XD

Heruwolf

If the game intends to have any sort of tab target combat, I don't believe personally there is a better option to pull from than WoW. Even FFXIV is worse, imo. I'm well aware that you can't just take a tab target combat system and an action combat system and smoosh them together and call it good.

Vhaeyne

Heruwolf wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

This thread is beautiful. The true second coming of the DPS meter thread.

You have a link to that thread??? I'm bored... XD

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/45612/dps-meter-megathread/p1

There it is. The 75 page opera.

FuryBladeborne

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

Well, and I'm sure the folks who really want it can get a macro keyboard.

If macros are banned and enforced, using a gaming keyboard or mouse or other program to create macros will get your account banned.

Songcaller

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Heruwolf wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

This thread is beautiful. The true second coming of the DPS meter thread.

You have a link to that thread??? I'm bored... XD

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/45612/dps-meter-megathread/p1

There it is. The 75 page opera.

I am amazed no-one has posted in that thread since October. The silence feels rather oppressive lol.

Vhaeyne

Neurath wrote: »

I am amazed no-one has posted in that thread since October. The silence feels rather oppressive lol.

What is dead may never die

Songcaller

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

If macros are banned and enforced, using a gaming keyboard or mouse or other program to create macros will get your account banned.

I don't mind bans due to macros, but, if I get banned for simply having the software and not using the macros I will have an issue with the outcome. I don't want to replace my hardware simply to play a subscription game. I don't mind upgrading my pc to play but I'm not downgrading my gear to play.

Jeetoph

Neurath wrote: »

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

If macros are banned and enforced, using a gaming keyboard or mouse or other program to create macros will get your account banned.

I don't mind bans due to macros, but, if I get banned for simply having the software and not using the macros I will have an issue with the outcome. I don't want to replace my hardware simply to play a subscription game. I don't mind upgrading my pc to play but I'm not downgrading my gear to play.

This won't happen.
May I add that if a game allows exploit via mouse or keyboard software (someone mentioned X abilities in one second via macro) than IMO the problem lies in the combat design and not with the software macro. Since we know animation canceling will not be a combat mechanic in AoC, this alone limits the possibilities.

rikardp98

halbarz wrote: »

I think we can all agree that all this WoW talk is making us sick, nobody (I hope) wants Ashes to be another WoW.

Let's eat ice cream and prevent @Vhaeyne prediction

No one said that ashes should be the next wow.

I only gave that example since WoW had a decent macro system that worked pretty well in that game. Now, it may or may not work in ashes, buy I just wanted to have a discussion about it and see what other people thought.

McMackMuck

rikardp98 wrote: »

@McMackMuck @halbarz what is your previous experience with macros in games?

For me it's mostly wow classic where macros is mostly (to me, and how I have seen them used) off-gcd ability into one GCD ability, out of combat macros like gear changing macro, and targeting macros (where the "focus" commands is questionable).
No delays or wait commands to cast multiple spells, and from my experience no huge game changing commands.

I don't like the argument "I don't want them", please give me some examples (non-scribt like macro, no wait or delays).

I don't feel the need to go into this in depth.
The developers present a game to the community.
The interface is the keyboard and mouse.
We are all equally limited by our ability to use the same interface [Disabled caveats mentioned previously].
Interfering with the operation of the UI unbalances this fairness.

Macros (outside the functionality that the game already provides) only exist as a method of making something easier for the player. It doesn't matter how innocuous that little macro advantage seems, it is still an advantage.
The extent of that unfair advantage is then no longer controlled by the devs, but by third party macro writing abilities, those who are more inclined towards real world programming skills or who know people that will write macros for them. There is then an escalation of macro writing which leaves a percentage of the community dis-enfranchised. Over time this leaves only the highly proficient macro users to compete at the highest level and everyone else resenting them as cheats or "only winning because of their macros". Players quit. Well done, macros have just killed the game!

It is better to nip this macro use and escalation in the bud than to wait until the game dies to realize that macros are a problem. IMO.

Now, I think halbarz was offering free virtual ice cream and it would be rude to not take him up on the offer...

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