Judeth wrote: » I've already commented on the reddit post, but I'll comment here too. I'll always feel personal loot is the best option, because from personal experience people are greedy. Rng loot distributed to everyone prevents someone from taking advantage of the system for their own gain. I have more experience with the personal loot system than other systems, but I've even played with "friends" who will try and take advantage of other's kindness or naivety by running dungeons for drops and trying to get people to trade them the good loot, then acting like they deserve it more than others. I'd hate to play with people like that and have them be given all the power. A bidding system will always favor the richest person in the group. Just because the other players who lose get the gold from the bet, it doesn't mean that they're actually earning as much as the item is worth. If everyone else in the party doesn't have a lot of gold to begin with, they'll be betting with chump change and the rich player won't be losing that much. Then he can just sell the item and get back more gold than he lost. I wouldn't even trust a guild with a master loot system, unless you're in a guild that actually cares about all of their members you're not going to be earning anything by working with them. From my guild experience, they usually only care about the main group of players and all the newer members are left out. Reminds me of high school. In a perfect world I'd choose master loot, but this world is far from perfect and the scum will make their way into AoC. Edit: I'd prefer a personal loot system where you can choose what you want to earn from finishing the dungeon/raid/whatever. That way you don't have people mindlessly running dungeons to get the drops they want.
consultant wrote: » Well would like personal loot at least on rare items like mounts, pets legendary gear that has very low drop rates like 1 or 2 percent especially in 40 man raids or content that have weekly loot lock outs other wise chance of you getting item is way over one in one thousand chance or way over 20 years of playing if you do that raid every week. Just sounds ridiculous.
Frostshot wrote: » A bit of a follow up to this, will healing be rewarded in the game mechanics when it comes to looting? Or if you choose to be a complete healing class will you have to rely on the good graces of your party members for rewards / loot drops?
McMackMuck wrote: » As the questions was about the loot system for GROUP content, I would hope to be in a decent guild, so the Master Loot would be my preference. In this discussion I think there is a bias caused by referencing games where loot drop items are far better than available crafted items. It is my understanding that AoC will have crafted items being equal to loot items. A percentage of AoC loot will be rare gatherables, which you need a guild structure to process into the best equipment. Although this fact doesn't completely remove the discussion over rare loot drop items, it will reduce it's relevance if most of what you get as loot needs to be processed and crafted (and enchanted) by different players to achieve the best results.
3Snap wrote: » Personal loot is the best loot. Losing rolls blows
Hakaiju wrote: » I made a poll on reddit if anyone is interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/k9yi34/which_loot_system_would_you_prefer_for_groups/ Or on strawpoll: https://strawpoll.com/qsuuj9ko5
Caeryl wrote: » Noaani wrote: » bloodprophet wrote: » Noaani wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » But, what makes someone think that they're more important than the other players they're playing with and that they get to decide the loot those players get? I'd much rather loot was based on an impartial system process, than on another player I may not have even met IRL and whose guild/raid friends of four or five years are also in the raid with me. In a pick up scenario, nothing. People that think this have mental issues. Totally different situation in guild/friend settings though - if you don't think your friends and/or guildmates are able to make a good decision in this regard, gett better friends. The problem with impartial loot systems is that they do one of two things. Either all players end up with lower quality loot, or quality loot enters the game too fast. In a top end PvE situation, a raid of 40 people should expect to get about 2 items per hour - basically 1 item for 20 player-hours worth of effort. No impartial system can deal with this, and so what has to happen if you are trying to force an impartial system on players without flooding the game with top end loot is that developers break the loot down in to smaller and smaller chuncks so that all 40 of those people can get something every 15 - 20 minutes. What I will say is that since a raid should only expect to see one quality item every 20 player-hours or so, if you are joining a pickup raid, just straight up don't expect to get anything. The odds are not in your favor. WOW was like this last couple of expansions. Everyone gets a trophy. I skipped this one completely and so far have seen no excuse to play the current expansion. Indeed. This kind of thing takes games from being all about improving your guild and guild members, to being all about me and what I can get. It is almost as negative a system for MMO's in general as LFG is. When a player spends an hour+ completing a raid, it is unacceptable that they may receive nothing for their time. I was of the mind that you disagreed with a game wasting players' time.
Noaani wrote: » bloodprophet wrote: » Noaani wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » But, what makes someone think that they're more important than the other players they're playing with and that they get to decide the loot those players get? I'd much rather loot was based on an impartial system process, than on another player I may not have even met IRL and whose guild/raid friends of four or five years are also in the raid with me. In a pick up scenario, nothing. People that think this have mental issues. Totally different situation in guild/friend settings though - if you don't think your friends and/or guildmates are able to make a good decision in this regard, gett better friends. The problem with impartial loot systems is that they do one of two things. Either all players end up with lower quality loot, or quality loot enters the game too fast. In a top end PvE situation, a raid of 40 people should expect to get about 2 items per hour - basically 1 item for 20 player-hours worth of effort. No impartial system can deal with this, and so what has to happen if you are trying to force an impartial system on players without flooding the game with top end loot is that developers break the loot down in to smaller and smaller chuncks so that all 40 of those people can get something every 15 - 20 minutes. What I will say is that since a raid should only expect to see one quality item every 20 player-hours or so, if you are joining a pickup raid, just straight up don't expect to get anything. The odds are not in your favor. WOW was like this last couple of expansions. Everyone gets a trophy. I skipped this one completely and so far have seen no excuse to play the current expansion. Indeed. This kind of thing takes games from being all about improving your guild and guild members, to being all about me and what I can get. It is almost as negative a system for MMO's in general as LFG is.
bloodprophet wrote: » Noaani wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » But, what makes someone think that they're more important than the other players they're playing with and that they get to decide the loot those players get? I'd much rather loot was based on an impartial system process, than on another player I may not have even met IRL and whose guild/raid friends of four or five years are also in the raid with me. In a pick up scenario, nothing. People that think this have mental issues. Totally different situation in guild/friend settings though - if you don't think your friends and/or guildmates are able to make a good decision in this regard, gett better friends. The problem with impartial loot systems is that they do one of two things. Either all players end up with lower quality loot, or quality loot enters the game too fast. In a top end PvE situation, a raid of 40 people should expect to get about 2 items per hour - basically 1 item for 20 player-hours worth of effort. No impartial system can deal with this, and so what has to happen if you are trying to force an impartial system on players without flooding the game with top end loot is that developers break the loot down in to smaller and smaller chuncks so that all 40 of those people can get something every 15 - 20 minutes. What I will say is that since a raid should only expect to see one quality item every 20 player-hours or so, if you are joining a pickup raid, just straight up don't expect to get anything. The odds are not in your favor. WOW was like this last couple of expansions. Everyone gets a trophy. I skipped this one completely and so far have seen no excuse to play the current expansion.
Noaani wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » But, what makes someone think that they're more important than the other players they're playing with and that they get to decide the loot those players get? I'd much rather loot was based on an impartial system process, than on another player I may not have even met IRL and whose guild/raid friends of four or five years are also in the raid with me. In a pick up scenario, nothing. People that think this have mental issues. Totally different situation in guild/friend settings though - if you don't think your friends and/or guildmates are able to make a good decision in this regard, gett better friends. The problem with impartial loot systems is that they do one of two things. Either all players end up with lower quality loot, or quality loot enters the game too fast. In a top end PvE situation, a raid of 40 people should expect to get about 2 items per hour - basically 1 item for 20 player-hours worth of effort. No impartial system can deal with this, and so what has to happen if you are trying to force an impartial system on players without flooding the game with top end loot is that developers break the loot down in to smaller and smaller chuncks so that all 40 of those people can get something every 15 - 20 minutes. What I will say is that since a raid should only expect to see one quality item every 20 player-hours or so, if you are joining a pickup raid, just straight up don't expect to get anything. The odds are not in your favor.
daveywavey wrote: » But, what makes someone think that they're more important than the other players they're playing with and that they get to decide the loot those players get? I'd much rather loot was based on an impartial system process, than on another player I may not have even met IRL and whose guild/raid friends of four or five years are also in the raid with me.
Merek wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Noaani wrote: » bloodprophet wrote: » Noaani wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » But, what makes someone think that they're more important than the other players they're playing with and that they get to decide the loot those players get? I'd much rather loot was based on an impartial system process, than on another player I may not have even met IRL and whose guild/raid friends of four or five years are also in the raid with me. In a pick up scenario, nothing. People that think this have mental issues. Totally different situation in guild/friend settings though - if you don't think your friends and/or guildmates are able to make a good decision in this regard, gett better friends. The problem with impartial loot systems is that they do one of two things. Either all players end up with lower quality loot, or quality loot enters the game too fast. In a top end PvE situation, a raid of 40 people should expect to get about 2 items per hour - basically 1 item for 20 player-hours worth of effort. No impartial system can deal with this, and so what has to happen if you are trying to force an impartial system on players without flooding the game with top end loot is that developers break the loot down in to smaller and smaller chuncks so that all 40 of those people can get something every 15 - 20 minutes. What I will say is that since a raid should only expect to see one quality item every 20 player-hours or so, if you are joining a pickup raid, just straight up don't expect to get anything. The odds are not in your favor. WOW was like this last couple of expansions. Everyone gets a trophy. I skipped this one completely and so far have seen no excuse to play the current expansion. Indeed. This kind of thing takes games from being all about improving your guild and guild members, to being all about me and what I can get. It is almost as negative a system for MMO's in general as LFG is. When a player spends an hour+ completing a raid, it is unacceptable that they may receive nothing for their time. I was of the mind that you disagreed with a game wasting players' time. It's completely acceptable. The themepark mentality of everyone wins is horrible, it's delusional and gives players a false sense of accomplishment. Time wasted is also subjective. OT: Isn't this more in line with themepark MMO's? "Woah, I got the ____ sword, wanna roll for it? " It should be first come, first served. Then it would be on that player to decide whether they want to give it to someone else. I've never enjoyed playing dungeons with anyone but people I know, so it wouldn't affect me. But I can see how it would kill "public" delves.
Caeryl wrote: » Merek wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Noaani wrote: » bloodprophet wrote: » Noaani wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » But, what makes someone think that they're more important than the other players they're playing with and that they get to decide the loot those players get? I'd much rather loot was based on an impartial system process, than on another player I may not have even met IRL and whose guild/raid friends of four or five years are also in the raid with me. In a pick up scenario, nothing. People that think this have mental issues. Totally different situation in guild/friend settings though - if you don't think your friends and/or guildmates are able to make a good decision in this regard, gett better friends. The problem with impartial loot systems is that they do one of two things. Either all players end up with lower quality loot, or quality loot enters the game too fast. In a top end PvE situation, a raid of 40 people should expect to get about 2 items per hour - basically 1 item for 20 player-hours worth of effort. No impartial system can deal with this, and so what has to happen if you are trying to force an impartial system on players without flooding the game with top end loot is that developers break the loot down in to smaller and smaller chuncks so that all 40 of those people can get something every 15 - 20 minutes. What I will say is that since a raid should only expect to see one quality item every 20 player-hours or so, if you are joining a pickup raid, just straight up don't expect to get anything. The odds are not in your favor. WOW was like this last couple of expansions. Everyone gets a trophy. I skipped this one completely and so far have seen no excuse to play the current expansion. Indeed. This kind of thing takes games from being all about improving your guild and guild members, to being all about me and what I can get. It is almost as negative a system for MMO's in general as LFG is. When a player spends an hour+ completing a raid, it is unacceptable that they may receive nothing for their time. I was of the mind that you disagreed with a game wasting players' time. It's completely acceptable. The themepark mentality of everyone wins is horrible, it's delusional and gives players a false sense of accomplishment. Time wasted is also subjective. OT: Isn't this more in line with themepark MMO's? "Woah, I got the ____ sword, wanna roll for it? " It should be first come, first served. Then it would be on that player to decide whether they want to give it to someone else. I've never enjoyed playing dungeons with anyone but people I know, so it wouldn't affect me. But I can see how it would kill "public" delves. It’s not a theme park mentality, it’s literally just a basic expectation that spending time on a challenge and being successful at it should come with a tangible reward. There’s nothing unreasonable about that.
