Healer Targeting System

Neurath wrote: »

I hope we can keybind the following way for targets in a 40 man raid:

Plain F Numbers. (1-8)
Alt F Numbers (9-16)
Shift F Numbers (17-24)
Control F Numbers (25-32)
Tab F Numbers. (Razer Hypershift) ((33-40))

It would enable us to cover a 40 Man Raid for targeted Heals. I am aware not all heals will be targeted, but, it would be nice if we can cover a 40 Man Raid without having to mouse over.

Why would you waste 40 keybinds when you can just use your mouse to click a target frame and only worry about keybinding your abilities? It's far faster, easier, and doesn't require 40 keybinds...

Frostshot wrote: »

Healing in Tera was fun, it had a combination or tab targeted and aoe healing. I hope we are not stuck with mouse over healing, as I prefer action camera combat these days.

I'm sure there will be some kind of HoT mechanics in the game. I think it would be hard not to.

I wouldn't call any of their heals tab targeted. They had lock on heals, but you still aimed at the players to target them, and then hit the ability again to lock onto the target. Lock-on and tab targeting are still very different mechanically.

The point is, instead of panning around to find the person in question, I can simply check they are in range and then target the person. The purpose is to state what I would prefer, and, I would prefer such the style. In actual fact, the binds in question would all be feasible because we have only 10 active abilities in the Hot Bar. It is quite funny that we have open threads requesting a similar disposition for the combat moves but mine is cast aside because it is for support.

If we ran the two systems side-by-side you would see the speed that can be gleaned by keybinds rather than mouse over macros or mouse clicks. The Cleric uses a Heal over Time targeted heal, the faster it can be applied the sooner the heal would be active.

My preferred style is aoe heals anyway, where you don't have to leave the combat target to heal at all. The problem is the basic tools mean we will have to leave the combat target to heal.

Edit: Spelling mistakes.

Neurath wrote: »

The point is, instead of panning around to find the person in question, I can simply check they are in range and then target the person. The purpose is to state what I would prefer, and, I would prefer such the style. In actual fact, the binds in question would all be feasible because we have only 10 active abilities in the Hot Bar. It is quite funny that we have open threads requesting a similar disposition for the combat moves but mine is cast aside because it is for support.

If we ran the two systems side-by-side you would see the speed that can be gleaned by keybinds rather than mouse over macros or mouse clicks. The Cleric uses a Heal over Time targeted heal, the faster it can be applied the sooner the heal would be active.

My preferred style is aoe heals anyway, where you don't have to leave the combat target to heal at all. The problem is the basic tools mean we will have to leave the combat target to heal.

Edit: Spelling mistakes.

I think they've said you can have up to 30 abilities, and multiple hotbars, but it's up to you to decide which ones and how many to spec into. I think the current UI is just placeholder. But my point is it's much easier to just click on nameplates in the raid window in the UI. You don't need to use mouseover targeting or keybinds. It's just a lot easier.

I'm sure you'll be able to keybind whatever you want, though. I believe in a lot of games you can go pretty far with keybinding. I just wouldn't recommend it.

Edit: There are plenty of ways around having to leave the combat target to heal (besides mouseover healing) - focus target, target of target, etc. As a healer it's not really a huge concern unless you're doing a lot of dpsing anyway and those tools allow you to quickly switch back to the combat target when needed.

30 Abilities would be a nice boon. That's a good amount to have but I'd still keybind them 1-10, shift 1-10 and alt 1-10.

It could be my learning disabilities, but, if I am using my mouse to target heal then I can be killed because I'm too busy watching the targets than watching the enemy abilities. I will bow out of Cleric and just run Bard. I believe Bard will have AoE Heals rather than single-target heals. It will be easier for me to play how I want than having to be forced to play the way I struggle with.

Haemosu

Wouldn't a "40 man" raid have more than one healer?
I prefer being able to click on their nametag in party/raid window, I have never bound my keys to player slots or used them.
I also prefer being able to click on their actual character to select them.
Healing PvP is as much my interest as PvE. Being able to select someone not in your party is essential imo.
A game I healed in before also had a TAB-action selector.
I could face in the direction of my heal target and hit TAB and they would be selected and then I could hit TAB and cycle through available targets, alternating from selected target to next closest target then next farthest back to first selected. at least thats how it seemed.
This may be the action heals that is spoken of here, but I want to know for sure my target will receive the heals by way of an indicator that they ARE selected.
I have never healed in an action type target system where it comes down to 'cursor to cursor' or should I say 'X to X' type of targeting.
This may be why i seem confused! lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WQ_BBwK5LA&t=649s

Haemosu wrote: »

Wouldn't a "40 man" raid have more than one healer?
I prefer being able to click on their nametag in party/raid window, I have never bound my keys to player slots or used them.
I also prefer being able to click on their actual character to select them.
Healing PvP is as much my interest as PvE. Being able to select someone not in your party is essential imo.
A game I healed in before also had a TAB-action selector.
I could face in the direction of my heal target and hit TAB and they would be selected and then I could hit TAB and cycle through available targets, alternating from selected target to next closest target then next farthest back to first selected. at least thats how it seemed.
This may be the action heals that is spoken of here, but I want to know for sure my target will receive the heals by way of an indicator that they ARE selected.
I have never healed in an action type target system where it comes down to 'cursor to cursor' or should I say 'X to X' type of targeting.
This may be why i seem confused! lol.

This game will have two types of targeting systems - traditional tab target and action, which has a cursor. You can switch between these whenever you want. It's basically just a UI and controls setting. So you can play in whichever mode you find easier to target with.

You can also choose a mix of tab and action based abilities as well to use and spec into, so you can choose the ones you feel most comfortable with there as well.

Steven previews the hybrid combat and the above two systems here -

daveywavey

Leiloni wrote: »

But my point is it's much easier to just click on nameplates in the raid window in the UI. You don't need to use mouseover targeting or keybinds. It's just a lot easier.

It's much quicker to use the shortcut keybinds. Health-bar of Player 3 in the party drops, you hit [F3], Heal, and your mouse is already still on the enemy to target them again. There's no downtime waiting for mouse movement and the possibility of missing the nameplate while you move, and you engage the enemy again more quickly. Every second counts in high-end raiding.

Just don't bind Alt+F4 unless you have a keyboard which can block Alt+F4 when in game lol.

If my requested key bind additions are granted, I can play Cleric. I'm used to high end raiding and solo healing and I would like to continue my Healer Parameters in Ashes of Creation, but if the options aren't there then I would get frustrated and would then stick with Bard. I'm not sure at what stage I will know about the key bind potentials so I will check in A2, B1 and B2 to make sure my choice isn't one made out of ignorance.

Edit: I understand Tab is a strange addition but it is the better placed option for a fifth group. I can move the 'tab target key bind' to a more obscure location and bind it to my mouse.

Voidwalkers

I'm more interested in seeing how aoe healing gets handled in Ashes.

I guess I'll comment on some of my experience with aoe heals as priest in wow & scholar in ff14.

- "Auto" target aoe heal (N lowest health targets, e.g. circle of healing)
This kind of heal is the easiest to use, but at the same time the most boring (and tends to get abused). I'd like to see this kind of spells being tied to a high mana cost or a non-trivial cooldown.

- Self centered / target centered aoe heals
IMO this should be the main form of aoe heals. It's powerful, but requires some effort in positioning (by both the party/raid members & the healers) and not brainless (boring) like auto-target heals.

- Party/group aoe heals (e.g. prayer of healing)
I didn't like this kind of heals very much. IMO it depends too much on group assignment and was rarely useful in pug raids. Back in wow, in raid finder, ppl usually still positioned properly as a raid, but the group members were often scattered all over the place. And because of that they rarely required heals at the same time, and were rarely within range of an aoe heal at the same time. Whenever I cast prayer of healing, usually at least half of the output of that spell goes to waste.

From the basic skills we know players will have to stack on the AoE Pulse of Hallowed Ground, we can also chain heal up to 3 targets through Benediction. I don't believe there will be Auto Heals beyond Hallowed Ground which also damages foes. Hallowed Ground will probably be running whenever it can be cast and Benediction (3 targets max) and Devotion (Single target) will be the second and third layers of backup.

I personally don't want heals to only affect a singular group. I believe Raid Wide heals are the better choice. I would even state, heals should be broader than Raid Wide too, in PvP you might have a mix of 2 raids at a choke point and all will need heals. Hallowed Ground would perform for the 2 raids and of course, targeted heals have no raid boundaries either.

daveywavey wrote: »

It's much quicker to use the shortcut keybinds. Health-bar of Player 3 in the party drops, you hit [F3], Heal, and your mouse is already still on the enemy to target them again. There's no downtime waiting for mouse movement and the possibility of missing the nameplate while you move, and you engage the enemy again more quickly. Every second counts in high-end raiding.

I personally do not have F# keys (compact keyboard), so wouldn't the keybinds for targeting party members be an advantage?

But seriously, I have never tried to use keybinds to target players (like F3), maybe I need to do that when ashes is released. But I feel like I will just end up clicking the UI instead xD

I know it seems ridiculous but short cut from key binds have saved so many more lives than tracking the mouse to frames and back to boss, back to frames, back to boss etc.

It is difficult to explain the nature of the beast but key binds are literally where High End Healers reside for the most part. You should try it one time and you will understand the request. Speed healing really is speed healing with key binds.

You can use key binds to heal and key binds to target foes. You can then reserve the mouse for movement. People are adamant Macros won't be allowed and Macros aren't required, just the full suite of potential key binds will provide so much extra head room for the hardest tier of PvE and in PvP too.

The only issue is the fact the raids are 40 Person and not 24 Person or I wouldn't have felt the need to add my request to cover all 40 People because 24 are often accounted for in key bind potentials.

Neurath wrote: »

I know it seems ridiculous but short cut from key binds have saved so many more lives than tracking the mouse to frames and back to boss, back to frames, back to boss etc.

It is difficult to explain the nature of the beast but key binds are literally where High End Healers reside for the most part. You should try it one time and you will understand the request. Speed healing really is speed healing with key binds.

You can use key binds to heal and key binds to target foes. You can then reserve the mouse for movement. People are adamant Macros won't be allowed and Macros aren't required, just the full suite of potential key binds will provide so much extra head room for the hardest tier of PvE and in PvP too.

The only issue is the fact the raids are 40 Person and not 24 Person or I wouldn't have felt the need to add my request to cover all 40 People because 24 are often accounted for in key bind potentials.

I do know that keybinds are the way to go when healing, but I like to have all my keybinds close to my wasd position. For me the longest distance I'm comfortable with is the 3 or 4 key.

And if ashes have a boss frame then I can just focus on targeting my party/raid members and still see the boss frame.

"Speeding" healing comes down to how fast you can click yours spells while still being able to move and having an eye on the overall battle. For me the F# keys won't be effective, but I can 100% understand that some people want and need it.

Yes, you speak the truth. We all have different setups. I never click my skills with a mouse. The nominal setup would be based around shift, alt and ctrl + your number of skills divided by 3. So you wouldn't stretch to reach any of them.

The F Numbers are often f1 to f6, alt f1 to f3 and f5 to f7, ctrl f1 to f6 and then shift f1 to f6. But obviously 24 Binds are little use to a 40 man raid. It is true I don't have to stretch for the f numbers either due to my setup, however, setups are built to the way one would play. It is natural for me to play my way just as it is natural for you to play your way.

It is simple when there is One Foe targeted and the rest are allies to heal. It can also be simple if there are multiple targets and multiple allies to heal. I'm more of a PvP Healer but I do also raid. Prior to PvP Armour the best PvP Armour was Raid Armour. I'm pleased Ashes won't have PvP Armour but I digress.

The activation of my request would not limit your way of playing but a denial of my request would limit the way I play. It is normal to have key binds for allies though I just wanted to highlight the request and make the request known.

Neurath wrote: »

Yes, you speak the truth. We all have different setups. I never click my skills with a mouse. The nominal setup would be based around shift, alt and ctrl + your number of skills divided by 3. So you wouldn't stretch to reach any of them.

The F Numbers are often f1 to f6, alt f1 to f3 and f5 to f7, ctrl f1 to f6 and then shift f1 to f6. But obviously 24 Binds are little use to a 40 man raid. It is true I don't have to stretch for the f numbers either due to my setup, however, setups are built to the way one would play. It is natural for me to play my way just as it is natural for you to play your way.

It is simple when there is One Foe targeted and the rest are allies to heal. It can also be simple if there are multiple targets and multiple allies to heal. I'm more of a PvP Healer but I do also raid. Prior to PvP Armour the best PvP Armour was Raid Armour. I'm pleased Ashes won't have PvP Armour but I digress.

The activation of my request would not limit your way of playing but a denial of my request would limit the way I play. It is normal to have key binds for allies though I just wanted to highlight the request and make the request known.

To me it sounds reasonable. If we can target party members with keybinds, we also should be able to target 40man raids. We don't know much about the settings or the UI of ashes, so we will just have to wait and see what they will end up doing.

Yeah, all's well and all's good. I appreciate the chance to discuss the situation and the potentials. The Dev team are experienced and I will obviously play the game either way lol.

Neurath wrote: »

Yeah, all's well and all's good. I appreciate the chance to discuss the situation and the potentials. The Dev team are experienced and I will obviously play the game either way lol.

I can't help to feel all warm and fluffy inside after having a nice and civil discussion on a forum on the internet.

No worries mate, all the best. Neu.