Should there be an outlaw town for Pkers?

Based on my time in the game UO, aka Ultima Online, where you had a PKer system where you went from grey to red. Grey being your open to attacks cause you killed someone or stole from someone, too red where you are just a killer, and you can enter any towns without being killed by guards.

Not sure if this topic was talked about, but I was thinking, why not have a town for the killers?

If not a town, then a caravan type, one they can be setup in hidden locations, and can grown to a level 2 or 3 only. This town needs to be one that can be taken down, and could be relocated to a different hidden location. One only known by a few PKers. A safe place for them to call home, and where they can sell or buy goods as needed.

Think of it as an outlaw town, one that could be moved after a day or two. A few tents and shacks and this can be a nice place for the villain type players. What do you think? Of course these type of camp towns wouldn't be allowed to be setup close to regular ones.

This is just a though, one I am floating out there, to see if others like it or not.

So what do you think? Please express yourself.

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Comments

Gizban

granthor wrote: »

Nothing about the outlaw town would be a reward. Its just a place to run off to and hide if need be. But the town would be far from safe.

1. The town should be open to attacks
2. Buildings can and should be destroyed.
3. The town is only there to help the red player for short periods of time.

My whole point was to have this town location known if a player goes red, and it gives them a chance to escape for a short amount of time. But the town should after that relocate to some place else, do to the nature of the town. They don't want the good guys to know about the shady business options they offer.

Just something different to add to the life of a PKer and PKer hunters

Why should they have a refuge 'to escape for a short time'?

The King's Bountymen know no borders. /e pierces your very soul with his dusty green eyes

BobzUrUncle

Yes, there should be a town for PKers. One that is destroyed by lava and kills all citizens and everyone else in it each week (logged in or not).

granthor

pyreal wrote: »

granthor wrote: »

Nothing about the outlaw town would be a reward. Its just a place to run off to and hide if need be. But the town would be far from safe.

1. The town should be open to attacks
2. Buildings can and should be destroyed.
3. The town is only there to help the red player for short periods of time.

My whole point was to have this town location known if a player goes red, and it gives them a chance to escape for a short amount of time. But the town should after that relocate to some place else, do to the nature of the town. They don't want the good guys to know about the shady business options they offer.

Just something different to add to the life of a PKer and PKer hunters

Why should they have a refuge 'to escape for a short time'?

The King's Bountymen know no borders. /e pierces your very soul with his dusty green eyes

Again its just an idea, mainly it would be a place where REDs can go without being attacked by guards. But at the same time, the outlaw town can and should be attacked by players if they find it out.

strive

I think there should be one but there should also be negatives for going there. Like high tax prices to buy things, decreased sell prices on items, and obviously not considered a safe zone so you can still be attacked there. It would mainly just be a place to sell your trash and repair gear if there's a system like that. Just the basic necessities.

Warth

I don't understand why people focus so much on guards.
I haven't played a single game where these were even remotely effective. They usually are rather easy to circumvent. So unless there is stationary guards next to key points like the respawn, the warehouse... they really don't matter much as you can simply walk around their static paths.

BlekTheSnek

if a bunch of corrupted players manage to maintain a node that is what it would be no? The system is in place, but the execution to make it happen would be serious joint effort of max level reds. The game devs should not give you special privileges or a key to a city you have to kind of earn it just like any other node. But rest assured i would do all in my power to destroy your node

Javionn

granthor wrote: »

pyreal wrote: »

granthor wrote: »

Nothing about the outlaw town would be a reward. Its just a place to run off to and hide if need be. But the town would be far from safe.

1. The town should be open to attacks
2. Buildings can and should be destroyed.
3. The town is only there to help the red player for short periods of time.

My whole point was to have this town location known if a player goes red, and it gives them a chance to escape for a short amount of time. But the town should after that relocate to some place else, do to the nature of the town. They don't want the good guys to know about the shady business options they offer.

Just something different to add to the life of a PKer and PKer hunters

Why should they have a refuge 'to escape for a short time'?

The King's Bountymen know no borders. /e pierces your very soul with his dusty green eyes

Again its just an idea, mainly it would be a place where REDs can go without being attacked by guards. But at the same time, the outlaw town can and should be attacked by players if they find it out.

I see both sides. You gotta think of it as if you were in that situation. You wanna PK, and then go hide in a outlaw town, that’s basically escaping the risk that were put out to you. It’s a Risk vs Reward game, the risk of you going red is PK, putting you in EXP Debt and other consequences. The reward is getting the stuff from that person you just PK’ed like gatherables and goods. You go out and hide somewhere to be “safe” shouldn’t be an option since being green isn’t considered safe neither. Now, I do like the idea of having an outlaw town or in my idea, campsite where someone can goto, if they were corrupted but, it shouldn’t be considered safe. Bounty hunters see corrupted players so these campsites won’t really be considered safe just an area to clean up your corruption a small percent faster than normal mob grinding.They shouldn’t be allowed to buy and sell since you made that consequence but I do believe that if you do end up going to an campsite, you’re corruption level has to be significantly high. It should be to the point where you literally just cannot do anything. Say that significantly high corruption state last like 6-7 days of only 4 hours a day mob grinding, with high corruption you can goto these little small campsites or huts that give corruption players quest that shaves off a day or 2 grinding exp. you’re still going to have to grind off the exp for the “Hardcore” aspect and Ontop of that it’s RNG based. Say you have 3 quest you can only do in that campsite Every time you have a significantly high corruption state, those quest should be quest that lead to either shaving 1 or 2 days off of your exp debt, due to it being RNG based. The quest should also be difficult and if failed, you gain more exp debt. Risk vs Reward. Risk is having more exp debt, Reward is having one or two less days of grinding out exp. so basically, it’s not necessarily rewarding a corrupted player, It’s helping those corrupted players who have a High corruption state. if that corruption state lasts at least a week, you don’t wanna spend all of your time grinding mobs for a whole week itll get boring after a while(atleast for me)... you wanna be able to start experiencing the other stuff again. So if you’re that desperate you can do these quest but it also has a RvR factor. The quest should be somewhat long and difficult causing only high corrupted players to group up. It cannot be done solo, which leads to being active and social, and it also makes you somewhat vulnerable to bounty hunters. As long as you’re aware of the RvR then I don’t see the problem with an outlaw campsite but it has been said plenty of times that they will not add this, but this is what I would do if they did.

granthor

Warth wrote: »

I don't understand why people focus so much on guards.
I haven't played a single game where these were even remotely effective. They usually are rather easy to circumvent. So unless there is stationary guards next to key points like the respawn, the warehouse... they really don't matter much as you can simply walk around their static paths.

Well......I would say you have not played UO, there you can be one-hit killed by the city guards.

If you're trying to rob someone, and a player sees you doing it. They can say, GUARDS! And poof in the pop with a one-hit kill.

If your red, you can't step one toe into a safe zone, nevermind the city, and POOF, One-hit kill from the guards. It's what I remember from that game.

granthor

BlekTheSnek wrote: »

if a bunch of corrupted players manage to maintain a node that is what it would be no? The system is in place, but the execution to make it happen would be serious joint effort of max level reds. The game devs should not give you special privileges or a key to a city you have to kind of earn it just like any other node. But rest assured i would do all in my power to destroy your node

When I pictured this idea, never did I see it as a city. I was mainly seeing tents and a few wagons, maybe a couple of shack-like buildings. But nothing like a city.

granthor

Javionn wrote: »

granthor wrote: »

pyreal wrote: »

granthor wrote: »

Nothing about the outlaw town would be a reward. Its just a place to run off to and hide if need be. But the town would be far from safe.

1. The town should be open to attacks
2. Buildings can and should be destroyed.
3. The town is only there to help the red player for short periods of time.

My whole point was to have this town location known if a player goes red, and it gives them a chance to escape for a short amount of time. But the town should after that relocate to some place else, do to the nature of the town. They don't want the good guys to know about the shady business options they offer.

Just something different to add to the life of a PKer and PKer hunters

Why should they have a refuge 'to escape for a short time'?

The King's Bountymen know no borders. /e pierces your very soul with his dusty green eyes

Again its just an idea, mainly it would be a place where REDs can go without being attacked by guards. But at the same time, the outlaw town can and should be attacked by players if they find it out.

I see both sides. You gotta think of it as if you were in that situation. You wanna PK, and then go hide in a outlaw town, that’s basically escaping the risk that were put out to you. It’s a Risk vs Reward game, the risk of you going red is PK, putting you in EXP Debt and other consequences. The reward is getting the stuff from that person you just PK’ed like gatherables and goods. You go out and hide somewhere to be “safe” shouldn’t be an option since being green isn’t considered safe neither. Now, I do like the idea of having an outlaw town or in my idea, campsite where someone can goto, if they were corrupted but, it shouldn’t be considered safe. Bounty hunters see corrupted players so these campsites won’t really be considered safe just an area to clean up your corruption a small percent faster than normal mob grinding.They shouldn’t be allowed to buy and sell since you made that consequence but I do believe that if you do end up going to an campsite, you’re corruption level has to be significantly high. It should be to the point where you literally just cannot do anything. Say that significantly high corruption state last like 6-7 days of only 4 hours a day mob grinding, with high corruption you can goto these little small campsites or huts that give corruption players quest that shaves off a day or 2 grinding exp. you’re still going to have to grind off the exp for the “Hardcore” aspect and Ontop of that it’s RNG based. Say you have 3 quest you can only do in that campsite Every time you have a significantly high corruption state, those quest should be quest that lead to either shaving 1 or 2 days off of your exp debt, due to it being RNG based. The quest should also be difficult and if failed, you gain more exp debt. Risk vs Reward. Risk is having more exp debt, Reward is having one or two less days of grinding out exp. so basically, it’s not necessarily rewarding a corrupted player, It’s helping those corrupted players who have a High corruption state. if that corruption state lasts at least a week, you don’t wanna spend all of your time grinding mobs for a whole week itll get boring after a while(atleast for me)... you wanna be able to start experiencing the other stuff again. So if you’re that desperate you can do these quest but it also has a RvR factor. The quest should be somewhat long and difficult causing only high corrupted players to group up. It cannot be done solo, which leads to being active and social, and it also makes you somewhat vulnerable to bounty hunters. As long as you’re aware of the RvR then I don’t see the problem with an outlaw campsite but it has been said plenty of times that they will not add this, but this is what I would do if they did.

Maybe I shouldn't have said a safe place to go. The whole idea was to just have a place to go, but it's not a safe place to go. If you understand my point? It would be a place to go to sell and repair, and buy, but far from safe, it would be open to attacks. That's why I called it an Outlaw town. Outlaw meaning not a safe zone for anyone.

daveywavey

Just put some freeholds together with your Corrupted friends.

Voidwalkers

Not sure about nodes, but I guess outlaw-only player-owned taverns (somewhere in the woods) can be a thing.
If the tavern owner can somehow prevent his patrons from outright murdering him, that is.

AntVictus

After reading through all of this again, it definitely just drew in a bunch of people that don't want to deal with consequences of their actions. I mean we could go back to the original way that everything was supposed to be setup, where you couldn't tell a person's lvl or anything...which is the only viable counter to a corrupted "safe space". Meaning you'd have no idea who anyone was, you might axe a level 2 on a 50 and just get sacked with corruption to the point you screwed yourself....oh but you won't want that either? So then it's a no.

The system is fine, people who want to fight you won't even be green. Moral of the story? Go after green you're gonna get beamed. Go after Purple, no corrupted circle.

So again, no to corrupted safe spaces outside of what we already have. You give people an inch and they'll take a mile.

Javionn

AntVictus wrote: »

After reading through all of this again, it definitely just drew in a bunch of people that don't want to deal with consequences of their actions. I mean we could go back to the original way that everything was supposed to be setup, where you couldn't tell a person's lvl or anything...which is the only viable counter to a corrupted "safe space". Meaning you'd have no idea who anyone was, you might axe a level 2 on a 50 and just get sacked with corruption to the point you screwed yourself....oh but you won't want that either? So then it's a no.

The system is fine, people who want to fight you won't even be green. Moral of the story? Go after green you're gonna get beamed. Go after Purple, no corrupted circle.

So again, no to corrupted safe spaces outside of what we already have. You give people an inch and they'll take a mile.

I don't have a problem with the current way they're doing it. I'm just looking at ways to expand on the idea from another's perspective, that's how you find more ideas that could possibly lead to in-game changes. Building upon an idea, or just scrapping it all. To me, I don't think anyone would wanna lose half of their resources, so they'll flag up just so they can either fight for it or at least lose a portion not all. Either way, people are gonna be forced to flag up one way or another. I sure would if I had a shit ton of resources I just farmed, and someone tried to kill me for it, so you're right, the system is fine, But there's always room for improvement in some aspects if you really get down and think about it. maybe it's something in that "Outlaw System" @Granthor mentioned they could use in a way to improve on the RvR of corruption and combatant levels, maybe not. At the end of the day, It's just creative thinking, it's not always "We don't wanna deal with consequences," the game isn't even out and they gave us part of the making of the game as a community to come up with ideas they may have not come up with, or approved on.

daveywavey

Javionn wrote: »

To me, I don't think anyone would wanna lose half of their resources, so they'll flag up just so they can either fight for it or at least lose a portion not all. Either way, people are gonna be forced to flag up one way or another.

If PvP is the weaker side of your game, and you expect to lose the fight, you might risk staying green in the hope that they'll stop attacking you to prevent their own Corruption.

akabear

As someone who used to occasionally pk for perceived (right or wrong) clan based righteous reasons and pve competitiveness, whilst I see no need for a town that is sanctuary, from experience from the proposed mechanics, there absolutely needs to be some areas that provide a certain degree of reprieve to take one off the radar at x intervals.

akabear

It would be useful if those that are against qualify their position if they have actually played a game with similar mechanics.. For someone coming from such mechanics, I can only see harm by providing no sanctuary in minor spaced areas than including.

Noaani

akabear wrote: »

It would be useful if those that are against qualify their position if they have actually played a game with similar mechanics.

The problem there is that the game you are talking about (I assume either L2 or BDO) has a comparible system in place to moderate all PvP.

That isn't the point of the system in Ashes - the point in Ashes is to funnel the PvP desires of players towards sieges, wars and caravans.

While the systems may look similar on the outside, their purpose is vastly different. As such, comparisons between them should only be made with caution.

Jam21

akabear wrote: »

As someone who used to occasionally pk for perceived (right or wrong) clan based righteous reasons and pve competitiveness, whilst I see no need for a town that is sanctuary, from experience from the proposed mechanics, there absolutely needs to be some areas that provide a certain degree of reprieve to take one off the radar at x intervals.

The announced mechanics of PK in AoC lead to reduction in stats where you kill players. This is ridiculous and dishonest - because not only dedicated PK's kill players (actually true PK will be maybe 0.1% of all people who kill players in world), e.g. you might have a pesky person who steal your mobs and dont listen to what you say, and killing him might be the only option, yet you get stat reduction for that...stupid. , but that is the system AoC currently have.

Thus, a safe town for PK chars is definitely needed. They just shouldn't be able to teleport there. Can come there on foot, evade bountry hunters? Ok, enjoy your safety.

Rhuric

Jam21 wrote: »

akabear wrote: »

As someone who used to occasionally pk for perceived (right or wrong) clan based righteous reasons and pve competitiveness, whilst I see no need for a town that is sanctuary, from experience from the proposed mechanics, there absolutely needs to be some areas that provide a certain degree of reprieve to take one off the radar at x intervals.

The announced mechanics of PK in AoC lead to reduction in stats where you kill players. This is ridiculous and dishonest - because not only dedicated PK's kill players (actually true PK will be maybe 0.1% of all people who kill players in world), e.g. you might have a pesky person who steal your mobs and dont listen to what you say, and killing him might be the only option, yet you get stat reduction for that...stupid. , but that is the system AoC currently have.

Thus, a safe town for PK chars is definitely needed. They just shouldn't be able to teleport there. Can come there on foot, evade bountry hunters? Ok, enjoy your safety.

You only go red for killing a green who doesnt fight back. They lose more if they don't fight back than if they defend themselves. If they fight back they're no longer green but purple and you won't become corrupted.

Killing a green is likely never going to be your only option. I don't foresee a single kill on a green being a great inconvenience, and unless you're planning to do it often and regularly you won't need a bandit town.

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