Auctioning/trading mounts and the third party greed it produces.

Was in another discussion and had a thought come to the forefront of my mind, I truly don't know if it's been discussed at all since I'm fairly new. If all mounts that are produced through animal husbandry can be sold on the auction house or traded, if that still applies and from what I understand it does still apply, what is stopping third parties from selling these mounts on their third party sites for real money, farming for them, creating bots for their production, etc. What systems will and can be in place to stop this epidemic from infecting this MMO in particular? Because it's an issue for any mount in any MMO that can be traded and auctioned and it can and absolutely has wrecked other MMO economies. Have any of the Devs touched on this yet or released statements?

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daveywavey

jackalopejane wrote: »

I really, really think it needs to just become a passive profession and have mounts account locked but that's just my personal opinion and not everyone may agree.

I'm one of those people. Making bred mounts account-locked would invalidate the entire profession for anyone was wasn't an obsessive collector/hoarder, would affect the game-wide economy, and would relegate the Animal Husbandry profession to lesser-played Alts.

jackalopejane

daveywavey wrote: »

jackalopejane wrote: »

I really, really think it needs to just become a passive profession and have mounts account locked but that's just my personal opinion and not everyone may agree.

I'm one of those people. Making bred mounts account-locked would invalidate the entire profession for anyone was wasn't an obsessive collector/hoarder, would affect the game-wide economy, and would relegate the Animal Husbandry profession to lesser-played Alts.

I can definitely see why you'd believe that and I can respect that. I just think making mounts account locked would actually have less of an impact on the game's economy than third party sellers.

Tyranthraxus

Mowaby wrote: »

Steven says they have ways to deal with RMT and botting. Hard for us to know till after release if their systems are working.

Aye - and it's typically best NOT to let other people know what precautions and countermeasures will be taken, ahead of time - so that no one can develop work-arounds.

I don't feel it should be an issue, anyways; Yours truly never saw any problems with out-of-game trading for accounts and in-game assets. For some reason, online culture has developed a great aversion to this type of player profiteering. So long as macros aren't allowed and resources aren't spawning in the exact same position anyways (and kill-based resources require in-person activity), won't we be avoiding the AFK-gathering that plagues most other games, anyways?

jackalopejane

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

Mowaby wrote: »

Steven says they have ways to deal with RMT and botting. Hard for us to know till after release if their systems are working.

Aye - and it's typically best NOT to let other people know what precautions and countermeasures will be taken, ahead of time - so that no one can develop work-arounds.

I don't feel it should be an issue, anyways; Yours truly never saw any problems with out-of-game trading for accounts and in-game assets. For some reason, online culture has developed a great aversion to this type of player profiteering. So long as macros aren't allowed and resources aren't spawning in the exact same position anyways (and kill-based resources require in-person activity), won't we be avoiding the AFK-gathering that plagues most other games, anyways?

Good points and I agree, this game in particular, besides the dungeon/raid drops for gear and weapons, seems to definitely already start taking on botting issues head on despite that not even being the purpose behind random spawns, different servers taking place in different phases and points in time via nodes, etc., it's just like a happy accident that it creates botting harder. But if you are insinuating that it's weird to have an aversion to player profiteering then I can't really fathom that thought process because it still does affect the game's economy negatively and it also takes money away from the game that could in turn be used for it's betterment, it also pushes company's to eventually put more items in the in-game shops. Why illegally buy something for x amount when you can legally buy it via the game store for less x amount. I mean that's the whole reason WoW introduced tokens, to undercut gold sellers and it actually helped quite a bit. But that aversion is definitely real to me and others, especially when it negatively affects their experience in a game they're paying for. It seems that with some games that are free to play, this goes under the radar quite a bit because a lot of people just don't care. But when you have a sub fee and you have to buy the game, I feel it's normal to expect more out of it as a consumer. I'm also definitely tired of in game shops to be honest and I'd hate to see another MMO have to battle third party via that shop.

unknownsystemerror

jackalopejane wrote: »

I draw the line at all of it. But the difference is with Ashes, weapons are dropped from dungeons and raids while mounts are directly linked to a profession.

Weapons and gear can be crafted at endgame. Not all the best gear comes from drops. So there is even more "profession linked" for you to worry about.

jackalopejane

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

jackalopejane wrote: »

I draw the line at all of it. But the difference is with Ashes, weapons are dropped from dungeons and raids while mounts are directly linked to a profession.

Weapons and gear can be crafted at endgame. Not all the best gear comes from drops. So there is even more "profession linked" for you to worry about.

That's true, but that also doesn't change that pretty much all mounts besides a handful will hinge on one profession in particular versus the different armor and weapon types that will take different forms of professions to produce. Perhaps several mount producing professions would be better than one or even make it where that profession, animal husbandry, can only master one type of mount production at a time. Say, if you want to master swimming mounts, you can do so, but not master other mount types and while you can still produce them, you can't get them to have the best stats versus the swimming mounts you directly chose. Unless that is already the plan, which I haven't seen announced so far but I personally think it would be interesting to see implemented in that way. If not, you could essentially be able to monopolize all mounts versus having to pick and chose armor/weapon production based on limited profession slots.

Noaani

jackalopejane wrote: »

That's true, but that also doesn't change that pretty much all mounts besides a handful will hinge on one profession in particular versus the different armor and weapon types that will take different forms of professions to produce. Perhaps several mount producing professions would be better than one or even make it where that profession, animal husbandry, can only master one type of mount production at a time. Say, if you want to master swimming mounts, you can do so, but not master other mount types and while you can still produce them, you can't get them to have the best stats versus the swimming mounts you directly chose. Unless that is already the plan, which I haven't seen announced so far but I personally think it would be interesting to see implemented in that way. If not, you could essentially be able to monopolize all mounts versus having to pick and chose armor/weapon production based on limited profession slots.

I can't see how this argument is at all related to third party sellers.

No player can monopolize all mounts when literally any player out there can start breeding them.

WhitneyHagasMatsumoto

I agree that it's not the purpose of the thread, but it's an interesting idea and I'd like to continue the discussion in the mounts thread.

Also, @jackalopejane -san, I don't think you need to worry too much.

At least at this point, I think most of the people in this community don't like RMT, etc.
And the reason for that is that I think Intrepid Studios won't tolerate such things, and that's what attracts me to this game.

They won't state what steps they will take to prevent RMTers from taking action against them, but it's okay, they will try to prevent RMT by any means possible.👍️

Merek

If mounts are implemented correctly, this won't be a thing. But if they're an undying, infinite use vehicle you can pull out whenever, then sure, this may be a problem.

CriminalCupcake

jackalopejane wrote: »

On playerauctions right now there are several WoW mounts being sold for $6,000 - $1,000, I went and checked, I made all items list via their price, highest first. The closest rare armor piece sells for $700. This follows suit on most third party sites I visited, mounts are extremely important to many MMO consumers. Regardless, even if you looked at it the way you have worded it, that mounts won't be the most valuable things player own, that means they'll be sold cheaper on third party sites, thus bought much more often... so... that is almost worse, IMO. Especially when the production of mounts on here will be primarily through animal husbandry, which means that third party sites would directly be affecting what seems to be one of the most anticipated aspects of this game for a lot of people.

Also, Blizzard sells a level up package... They're the real ones behind RMT's methinks....

Vhaeyne

Of course there will always be some people attempting to RMT anything. It is a constant cat and mouse game between MMOs, and people who RMT.

Ashes opens itself up to potentially more RMT due to the fact that almost nothing is soul bound. A popular game where this is true is a dream for those who make their living off of RMT. Normally they can only worry about selling power level services or currency, but now every item in the game will get a real world value to them. Intrepid knows this and has stated that they will be fighting it.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Security_systems
There are few details about what exactly Intrepid will have going on in the back end to fight RMT and cheating. To be honest the less anyone outside of Intrepid knows the better. We just have to hope they have some sort of 5D chess solutions and tools.

The no box cost also helps RMT. If it is profitable with a sub fee and a box cost, surely it will be worth their time with no box cost, and just a sub fee. What we can do as players is to report all RMT as we see it.

Something we have going for us in this fight is just who chaotic the world of Ashes will be. The constant changes from the node system will make botting unpredictable and require constant supervision. In addition we can always kill botters on site.

It is not out of the question that we see a coordinated guild like Gallywix* in WOW selling items or gold on the side for real money. If I understand the situation correctly Blizzard knew what they were doing and looked the other way. Same goes for regular botters, blizzard has been lax on them because they bring in extra sub fees. Assuming what I just said about Blizzard is true, we can only hope that Intrepid is not tempted to ruin their game at the cost of some extra sub fees. Thankfully the passion at Intrepid currently shows, while the Blizz Devs always seem demoralized the few times they are allowed to speak in public.

TLDR, If you see someone Botting or RMTing... PK them and report them.

bigepeen

jackalopejane wrote: »

Collecting mounts, pets or achievements has always been a crucial part of MMOs. It just has.

Dang, I guess I've been playing MMOs wrong all these years. I just try to get the best mount, or if the best mounts are situational, I will go for those as well. I don't typically use pets unless they collect items, or are useful in some other way.

Ramirez

jackalopejane wrote: »

Was in another discussion and had a thought come to the forefront of my mind, I truly don't know if it's been discussed at all since I'm fairly new. If all mounts that are produced through animal husbandry can be sold on the auction house or traded, if that still applies and from what I understand it does still apply, what is stopping third parties from selling these mounts on their third party sites for real money, farming for them, creating bots for their production, etc. What systems will and can be in place to stop this epidemic from infecting this MMO in particular? Because it's an issue for any mount in any MMO that can be traded and auctioned and it can and absolutely has wrecked other MMO economies. Have any of the Devs touched on this yet or released statements?

So i play Albion online and mounts are tradable and one of the most expansive thing in the game especially exotic and batlle mounts, how they do?

First mounts aren't permanent you can lose them in battle against other players they can become trash or being stolen

Second in husbandry system, for basic mounts horses ox, you need to give them food, that have a cost, you need to craft a saddle here you need to farm leather or wood, higher the tier mount higher tier resources you need, for last, higher tier mount take more time to grow up, last tier of that mount take 25 days to grow up.

Third exoctic mounts are really hard to get you have a small chance to get a cub when killing the respective mob

You need to be in the end lvl of your profession to make them grow up

They need rare items for saddle from dungeons, world bosses etc

When husbandry they have small chances to give another cub..

And don't forget you are in an open world game with pvp will be harder for farm bots to survive, in albion you don't have any because they are instantly killed... Farm bots are easyer in dead worlds or in pve games like wow

akabear

Patsold

I dont read all, but I dont See a Problem with Selling stuff for real money. Its the price of freedome that we need to pay if we want a good game. Botter, China Farmer, Hacker ect are Bad things but.. We cant dodge them all.i want to trade with some Items in game ,so you can exploide this System with Selling the stuff for real money.

as a wise man once said

whoever trades freedom for security will not end up having both

Thats my opinion

phdmonster

There are ways for them to combat rmt and botting, but to a degree it will always exist because it can't be tracked reliably 100% of the time and the more stricts rules you impose the more false positives you will have.
For example, not every trade where 1 receives an item and doesn't give anything in return is faulty and a cause for an RMT flag - maybe i just traded my friend and gave him an item i don't need or i surprised him with a gift of a super rare beast?

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