[World] Regarding Node advancement with monsters, dungeons, raids, bosses and questlines.

Okey first i will quote of what the wiki states;

In the world naturally there will be locations that are going to have a mix of different levels of monsters and difficulty levels; and then those spawn tables relate to the development of nearby nodes. So as nodes develop they'll be changing the spawn tables around them to reflect their further development in the world, presenting new and more difficult dangers that the players can participate in.

Zones and mob levels
Dungeons, Raids, World bosses, Mobs, Quests, Events, Resources, Narratives and other content within a node's ZOI will have a diverse level range; but will scale with the advancement of that node and its racial influence.

We don’t have a strictly level 25 zone. Instead, that zone might have some level 10 creatures near the road, some level 20 creatures deep in the forest, and some level 30 creatures up the mountain. These ratios will change based on the Nodes that inform them, becoming generally more dangerous as the Node grows. All this civilization attracts the attention of Things-That-Should-Not-Be. This does not mean that wilderness areas are safe, by any means. Some may be safe-er, but all will have dangers that even the most experienced traveler needs to watch out for.

New points of interest (such as dungeons and world bosses) spawn as nodes develop. This content adapts to the development of the zone it is in.

Populations will change.
Content difficulty will change.
The content may be different altogether, depending on what is developed and how.
Different types of antagonists with different story lines.
Some dungeons will only be unlocked if nodes are developed to certain stages.
Storyline objectives for players inside dungeons will depend on the story arc paths chosen through the node system.
Drop tables in areas and dungeons will be tied into the progression of certain areas.
Certain dungeons and other points of interest across the map will all be affected by the server’s node development. Some dungeons will only be unlocked if nodes are developed to certain stages. The storyline objectives for players inside dungeons will also be dependent on the story arc paths chosen through the node system. The drop tables in area and dungeons will also be tied into the progression of certain areas. For example, let’s say that the humans have developed a node in Region A, and a storyline has opened up that leads players to inspect the ruins (dungeon) of a nearby area. And let’s say that this node was developed in a scientific (crafting) zone… Well before the node developed, this dungeon was accessible… But now the dungeon has propagated new monster assets that include a drop table catering to a crafting emphasis because of the development of that scientific node. And perhaps, a new boss appears in different rooms of the dungeon that includes different adventure quest starts, like a mysterious item with a storyline that can only be progressed if a node develops to the metropolis stage in a certain region, across the world. Our system is so vast, when it comes to interconnectivity and how the world reacts to the players

Now to the problem I see;
If we were to develop nodes to the max stage/level (Metropolis) then there will be more of everything within that node (monsters, dungeons, bosses) hence the more focus on that part of the entire map which have an negative impact for explorers to even explore other parts of the world if there are not anything good to gain from it.

If bosses unlocked due to node advancement why wouldn't people just be within that node in order to get the best items?

What is the point of having an open-world if not to explore and be able to gain loot/items new things with a greater value?
With the node system this might be in a risk, so as far i can see there must be a lure to other nodes even if a one has been advanced to the max stage.

TL:DR
The entire world need to be of interest even if there is a metropolis stage node (which will according to wiki, increase the mob count/bosses/valuables to gain)

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Comments

WhitneyHagasMatsumoto

It sure seems strange to have a demon lord next to the capital city lol.

I wonder how the mighty monsters are positioned in Ashes?
That said, in Japanese folklore and other traditions, disasters were said to be caused by KAMI, who were angry at people's bad behavior and were beyond human power.
This is a kind of "animism" in English.

Based on such a notion, it does not seem strange at all.
However, whether it is appropriate to be applied to the world of Western fantasy is a difficult subject for Japanese people.😅

P.S.
If you've ever seen "The Princess Mononoke" or "Spirited Away", both of which are animated films produced by Studio Ghibli, you may have an idea of what I'm talking about.

Merek

I really hope they balance content well but I can literally taste meta in the air. Everyone will ignore everything but one node, because it will have the best mobs, resources etc. People will fight over it, sure, but eventually people will get bored and move on.

Voidwalkers wrote: »

I'd agree there's a degree of awkwardness when you tie node development with PvE content availability though.

The idea that the more developed a city is, the more dangerous its surroundings become (as deeper dungeons & raid bosses get unlocked) just seems weird to me.

In a typical fantasy RPG world, areas surrounding major cities are usually more peaceful (coz 1. that's why ppl settle there in the first place, and 2. there're usually regular patrols / adventurer parties clearing threats nearby), mobs are usually more abundant somewhere in the untamed wild, and the most powerful dragons & demon lords somehow like to build their lairs & castles somewhere deep in the mountains near a volcano.

It would probably make more sense if, say, as a node progresses, more PvE contents gets unlocked on the outskirts of the node's ZOI. e.g. The raid dungeon won't be next door to a metropolis, but somewhere near a level 0 node within the metropolis's ZOI.

Exactly, it makes no sense, at all. Why even leave your fortified, completely upgraded node when everything worth killing and farming sits directly outside of it? lol.

Blund

Voidwalkers wrote: »

I'd agree there's a degree of awkwardness when you tie node development with PvE content availability though.

The idea that the more developed a city is, the more dangerous its surroundings become (as deeper dungeons & raid bosses get unlocked) just seems weird to me.

In a typical fantasy RPG world, areas surrounding major cities are usually more peaceful (coz 1. that's why ppl settle there in the first place, and 2. there're usually regular patrols / adventurer parties clearing threats nearby), mobs are usually more abundant somewhere in the untamed wild, and the most powerful dragons & demon lords somehow like to build their lairs & castles somewhere deep in the mountains near a volcano.

It would probably make more sense if, say, as a node progresses, more PvE contents gets unlocked on the outskirts of the node's ZOI. e.g. The raid dungeon won't be next door to a metropolis, but somewhere near a level 0 node within the metropolis's ZOI.

This is exactly what i meant, but somehow people don't think it'll be an issue. Maybe it wont be, but i think it's good to talk about this. I'm sure they have thought of this but in plain text I see a lot of issues with it.

I think there should be a reason to explore the entire world to gain materials or loot instead of focusing everything close to one node, as i said benefits and features should could be evolved at a node but don't limit people to it, the more distance from the settlement/metropolis should await danger and adventure.

Just my opinion and share of awareness and discussion

bloodprophet

Cause not everything is. Resources will be spread out and NEEDS the caravan system to move large quantities of stuff.
The 4 node types will have different advantages/disadvantages. One high end dungeon or raid may only have one kind of the resource needed to craft that really cool weapon and the rest be scattered around the world on the other continent.
Now come the choice. Trade for it or get it your self. With little to no fast travel is might take several hours to get there and then go get the stuff you need. Verra is a big place and not everything will be right outside your door.
Plus the different node types. Players are different and will want different things. Having a metro of each will probably be meta as each will have different services.
I think the raids and dungeons will spawn in the ZOI and not right next to the city gates. Same for monsters.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_types

Noaani

Voidwalkers wrote: »

I'd agree there's a degree of awkwardness when you tie node development with PvE content availability though.

The idea that the more developed a city is, the more dangerous its surroundings become (as deeper dungeons & raid bosses get unlocked) just seems weird to me.

In a typical fantasy RPG world, areas surrounding major cities are usually more peaceful (coz 1. that's why ppl settle there in the first place, and 2. there're usually regular patrols / adventurer parties clearing threats nearby), mobs are usually more abundant somewhere in the untamed wild, and the most powerful dragons & demon lords somehow like to build their lairs & castles somewhere deep in the mountains near a volcano.

It would probably make more sense if, say, as a node progresses, more PvE contents gets unlocked on the outskirts of the node's ZOI. e.g. The raid dungeon won't be next door to a metropolis, but somewhere near a level 0 node within the metropolis's ZOI.

I agree in principle, but the way Steven has explained it is that the success of the city has attracted bad actors to it's surroundings.

To me, whether this works or not is conditional on how the content is designed and delivered.

If low level content is all wild animals and such keeping well away from cities, mid level content is lesser races of sentient beings living off the fringes of mid level nodes (waste, raids etc) and high level content is all organized civilizations of intellegent beings with designs to take over a major city, then I can see it working.

I can't really see any other way in which it would feel right though.

Virtek

One of the other nifty points is that exploration around the map will happen naturally over time.

If you have unlimited time to explore one area, the majority of people will eventually get bored of it. TYhey've completed all the dungeons. Beat all the raids. Opened all of the map. Fished in every stream. etc etc etc.
These people will go wandering in search of something nifty and start adding more and more experience to other nodes outside of those that currently house all of the nifty stuff.
The old nodes will slowly lose experience and de-level. The nodes being newly explored will start to gain experience and level up. Now the new nodes are becoming the hot spots and the cycle repeats.

Two years later, the same original nodes may be next in the rotation as people discover that another server unlocked something new there.

This is not even taking into account what others have said about Node Sieges destroying a metropolis and forcing the population to move. Even if it is just one node away, that's one more node that is fully leveled up and one closer to unleveled territory.

Blund

Noaani wrote: »

Voidwalkers wrote: »

I'd agree there's a degree of awkwardness when you tie node development with PvE content availability though.

The idea that the more developed a city is, the more dangerous its surroundings become (as deeper dungeons & raid bosses get unlocked) just seems weird to me.

In a typical fantasy RPG world, areas surrounding major cities are usually more peaceful (coz 1. that's why ppl settle there in the first place, and 2. there're usually regular patrols / adventurer parties clearing threats nearby), mobs are usually more abundant somewhere in the untamed wild, and the most powerful dragons & demon lords somehow like to build their lairs & castles somewhere deep in the mountains near a volcano.

It would probably make more sense if, say, as a node progresses, more PvE contents gets unlocked on the outskirts of the node's ZOI. e.g. The raid dungeon won't be next door to a metropolis, but somewhere near a level 0 node within the metropolis's ZOI.

I agree in principle, but the way Steven has explained it is that the success of the city has attracted bad actors to it's surroundings.

To me, whether this works or not is conditional on how the content is designed and delivered.

If low level content is all wild animals and such keeping well away from cities, mid level content is lesser races of sentient beings living off the fringes of mid level nodes (waste, raids etc) and high level content is all organized civilizations of intellegent beings with designs to take over a major city, then I can see it working.

I can't really see any other way in which it would feel right though.

Well yeah that's the thing... we hope for it to work. But I'm skeptic sadly.
Hopefully they make the entire world interesting rather than focusing on the developed node.
There should be gains to explore farther from the population.

Dargron

Merek wrote: »

Why even leave your fortified, completely upgraded node when everything worth killing and farming sits directly outside of it? lol.

Well, to be fair, you're not really supposed to want to leave your node. Nodes are big places that you are intended to make into your home, to settle down in and form a community with others who have chosen to settle down in the area.

Having said that, there are plenty of reasons to branch out and settle down in a less developed node. If everyone is rushing into the most developed nodes for the best content, there will be massive congestion and probably not enough resources to go around - players may find themselves struggling with the constant competition and find themselves far more often at odds with their neighbours. Resources will be spread out all over Vera (possibly even dry up in one area and move to another), and not all resources will be available in every node. Lots of potential opportunity to have valuable resources all to yourself in a less developed node.

On top of this, the most developed nodes will also be the biggest targets for hostile players looking to make a nuisance of themselves - they will congregate there because they want to spend their time killing players, not searching for them, and a developed node will offer a bigger population of quick and easy to find victims. A less populated node won't be such an inviting target, and players could find themselves gathering resources there without ever being accosted, while those in Lv.5 nodes face down constant interruptions to their productivity.

I imagine Lv.5 nodes will also be a frequent target for wars and sieges. Great if you want constant fights. Not so great if you are more looking to get stuff done and don't want your stuff under regular threat of being looted after a siege. It's probably a good bet that all Lv.5 nodes will inevitably fall, and those that pitch their camp in less developed nodes will eventually see the higher end content come to them as their node levels up from the destruction of their neighbouring nodes.

Long story short, I imagine it will be no different than real life country vs city living. If you want a quieter, more secure lifestyle of productivity, you will migrate to the lesser nodes. If competition and conflict is more your style with big risks for big rewards on offer, the high level nodes will be the place to be. There is an appeal to either situation and I'm not so sure that this is a bad thing.

Noaani

Blund wrote: »

There should be gains to explore farther from the population.

As has been said, there are.

Not only are there reasons to explore, but there are reasons to re-explore places you have already explored.

Again, nodes have an effect on points of interest outside of their ZoI.

I've said this a few times, but you seem to not have grasped the implications of this.

What it means is that while you need a high level node in order to have high level content, that high level content is not restricted to the ZoI of that one node.

The game has 103 normal nodes from memory (I am not looking it up). They will not develop a dungeon for each node.

Rather, they will develop a number of dungeons, and each dungeon will have it's content type and level determined by the node that is at the top of the vassal structure of the dungeons local node. This all holds true for non-dungeon points of interest as well.

While this isn't necessarily the exact way Intrepid will do it, the point I am making is that while you need a metropolis level node for high level content, that high level content is not restricted to the immediate area around the metropolis.

Blund

Noaani wrote: »

Blund wrote: »

There should be gains to explore farther from the population.

As has been said, there are.

Then my concerns are reduced, thanks.

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